I was pondering the mysteries of being earlier today, as there's nothing on the telly on a Sunday (except re-runs and films about plucky chimps helping struggling baseball teams - cringe!) and my thoughts turned to how we pagans define ourselves to others and in the privacy of our own heads. You've seen the forums, you've heard the arguments, we can all go on for a LONG time debating the etymology of apparently innocuous words like "pagan" or "witch" and I'd like to hear your thoughts

It used to be that if someone asked me about my faith (and I was disposed to answer them) I'd say "I'm a witch", but then you get "Oh, so are you're Wiccan?" and I'd see this awful black pit of semantics opening up before me. I just don't think of myself as Wiccan. No offence to Wiccans, naturally. Whatever floats your boat. I'd like to be lofty and say my beliefs are too ineffable for mere words to provide a convenient label but I'm human and we all like to pigeon-hole things. It's how we break up the universe into managable bits. So, then I'd say I was an eclectic, but is that too vague, inviting more complicated questions? Does that word imply a pick'n'mix attitude? Now I lean towards the term "Cottage Witch" to describe my personal blend of practical magic and inherited wisdom.

So what I'd like to know is how do YOU define yourselves and do you think we're too concened with labels? Does your definition change if you're talking to a fellow pagan or a stranger?

Also, craft names. I don't have one and would feel odd calling myself something else, particularly something flowery or vaunted such as the name of a Goddess. I don't seperate my spiritual identity from my daily life, and to be honest I'd feel a bit daft. Once, when I was going through a hippy phase in university I overheard this bloke comment to his friends "I bet her name is Moonchild" and whilst glaring at him I had the great and satisfying pleasure of seeing him step in dogshit (thank you, Mother). Moonchild indeed! So who has a craft name and why? Discuss!

I've been thinking about this myself today, actually, having just introduced myself here. Wondering what I mean to myself when I say "kitchenwitch", for example, although I usually qualify that by adding in some of the influences that shape my thinking and practice. I'm not really sure what it means to other people and I'm also not sure I really care, but there you go

So I came up with what it means to me:
"If you cannot do it with a wooden spoon and a bog brush, it ain't worth doing" (very Granny Weatherwax, I know)
"bucket chemistry"
"hearth and home"

I think it describes me as a fairly practical, down to earth person - despite a long background of science training I'm definitely more of a "slop it in and see" kind of person, especially in the kitchen, and I'm never worried about tools and precise measurements in spellworking. Doesn't mean I'm careless - far from it, as an amateur herbalist you can't be, but there's a time and a place for precision and a time for a more laid-back approach, and I tend to lean towards the latter generally. Tbh most of the time I don't bother with any of the formal side of things - I find it a real distraction and a faff. And I'm absolute blasphemer when it comes to Tarot - I'd be lucky to find a silk cloth in this house, never mind use it. I tend to type it all straight into my laptop like automatic writing, being of the opinion that the cards are there to be used, not admired (I do have some decks which are just for pretty, but my working decks are very well-loved!).

A label can be handy as a starting point, but I reckon after you get to know someone a bit it becomes a bit pointless as we're all a lot more than the sum of our parts. It can also be divisive.


Oh, never bothered with a craft name either - like you, I found the high-falutin' Lady Moondrip stuff a bit pretentious and it just never sat well with me. I don't even use a moniker for Tarot these days as I'm decidedly non-psychic and don't want to give the impression that I might be; the only time I ever hid behind an assumed name was when I was working with children in a sensitive job - and that was out of fear, sadly.

[quote=Seawood,Sep 10 2006, 08:31 PM]

So I came up with what it means to me:
"If you cannot do it with a wooden spoon and a bog brush, it ain't worth doing" (very Granny Weatherwax, I know)
"bucket chemistry"
"hearth and home"
[/quote]

Granny does say it best! Many may sniff, but I think she does represent a valid approach to the craft, "Edge Witch" and all that. Perhaps there should be a tradition based on Weatherwaxisms, like the Way of Mrs. Cosmopolite. I think Terry P understands witches very well, enough to see the tiny bit of Magrat in us all. Lady Moondrip! Priceless.

I must say your summary sounds very similar to my own. I also see the Craft as a practical tool for daily life. I use herbs and cooking myself. Simple charms and wortcunning. I drew a lot of parallels between the role of the traditional village wise woman and my own career as a nurse and, recently, as a teacher. I've been there when babies come into the world and when people shuffle off and healed them in between. It's not glamourous but it is crafty.

the only time I ever hid behind an assumed name was when I was working with children in a sensitive job - and that was out of fear, sadly.

[/quote]

Yes, that is a knotty problem. I work in a secondary school at present. It's not exactly cosmopolitan, so I tend to keep my faith to myself. It's better now we're protected by law (if somewhat feebly) but I prefer caution. I don't deny my faith but I don't advertise it by dripping with pentagrams and such. I do work with a very entertaining Druid who has made a sort of art of slipping the odd arwen under his student's noses.

Thanks very much for your response. It was very interesting and refreshing. I hope to hear from you again.

Blessings,
Bethan

Oh goody, a discussion on language

Wow, where to start?

The thing about assumed names and craft names is it's peculiar in modern paganism that we choose our own. For instance, in Native American culture, Buddhism and Christianity, the name you receive when reaching spiritual maturity or when you enter an order, is one that's given to you by people who know you.

I'll draw a parallel with Deaf culture here, where people are not know by their Christian name (unless in formal circumstances or first introductions) but by a sign name, which describes something (usually visual) about that person or sometimes their character. That identifiable property of that specific person becomes the name by which they're known, given to them by those who know them. Similarly, Buddhism and all the rest pick a word, sentence that describes something about that person's character. Christianity often names it's devotees after another person (or saint) whose qualities the named person displays. In Yoruba and (i believe) Chinese, mundane names tend to have a meaning, so the character of that person is incorporated into their given names at birth. Yoruba can be quite specific, as well as names like 'waiting for the dawn' and 'laughter' it can produce descriptive names like 'child of one parent' or 'child whose twin died in the womb'. I believe the wlesh name Angharad means 'unloved'? (I may be wrong on that, but there is a Welsh name with that meaning).

I think choosing your own craft name could either be taken as a display of independence, or (possibly to other cultures) as a slightly empty gesture. I suppose it depends what the symbolism is and why it's chosen.

Internet culture means that all of us have a number of aliases we use on a regular basis, such as Thinair, Demoness, Tussilago Farfara, HoneysuckleSpider and Cutty Sark (a few i've used in the past). Why we identify with those words would make a very interesting study - how do we choose the name and why. Why do we change them? Some of those i've used are things that I have seen in my life that have left an impression, others are words that I like and some I honestly don't think I know.

Talking about beliefs is a very difficult one. It all relies on lexicon: the shared agreement of what a word means. You will talk about your beliefs in very different ways depending on the company you're in, you'll always be more guarded around people who are not 'in the know' because you know that the risk of being misinterpreted is far greater.

An example of lexicon working well would be 'bogbrush' - there's no context to tell you what 'bogbrush' means - could be a thing, a place, an order - without the context of a sentence, who knows. However, i'd say everybody in this forum knows exactly what a 'bogbrush' is. It's a brush for cleaning the loo. We all know that because we all share the same lexicon (although the word 'bog' for loo or toilet isn't in everyone's vocabulary so some people might need the context).

However, you've just arrived in England, you passed GCSE English wherever it is you came from and you're clinging tightly to your English/Doubledutch dictionary incase anyone decides to talk to you.

'Would you mind getting the bogbrush'...bog....'wet marshland'....brush...'an implement for brushing'... you'd be just as likely to come back with a broom or a rake. The literal translation is not the same as the agreed lexicon for that word. It literally means one thing but is known to be another.

Thus 'great rite' could be a fantastic party, 'calling The Quarters' could be phoning four people and 'drawing down the moon' could be a piece of art for the literally minded.

But then there is also cultural lexicon: the image which is conjured by certain words. A 'witch' to the majority is a person with green skin, hooked nose and warts. A 'druid' always wears a white dress, a 'ghost' always wears a bed sheet and a 'priest' always wears a collar.

Because we know the risk of conjuring these images we get quite guarded and quite careful about the semantics, whereas around friends who are also pagan we might wander in and say 'hi guys, I’m a witch, she's a druid, we've just called quarters at a friend's handfasting', and not bat an eyelid because we all share the same lexicon/lingo.

Grice's Maxims are the basic 'rules' for successful conversation. When we're talking to people who aren't pagan and don't have an understanding of what we're talking about, we should try and stick to these but we often stumble. Usually we fall down on the maxim of manner - we worry that the lexicon won't be understood and therefore we, often unintentionally, become ambiguous, leaving the person more confused than before they asked

The other big one we've got going in paganism is the Capital Letter Issue. It happens so often, harking back to deafness again: to be 'deaf' is not to be able to hear; to be 'Deaf' is to be a proud member of a cultural and linguistic minority. The argument there is that you wouldn't refer to other cultural and linguistic communities as 'welsh', 'irish' or 'swiss' - what does that capital letter add, or take away when not used?

Same with Pagan and pagan. 'pagan' often being classed as the overall word for a member of a non-monotheistic religion and Pagan being the modern cultural community or a member thereof. In conversation, where there is no written word, this distinction needs to be verbally explained.

Personally, I don't tend to get into many conversation where I explain myself to others or tell them that i'm pagan. But if I do, and if the person is genuine, I tend to do it in a situation where I know that I will be able to finish what i'm saying and answer their questions without us being interrupted. It is important to have the chance to clarify what you are saying to the full. If I sense a trace of sarcasm or insincerity, I won't start.

So we all change our delivery depending on who we're talking to and labels are useful provided we share an agreed lexicon. I don't have a craft name.

Best wishes,

Marion.

PS: 'bucket chemist' - absolutely love it

The thing is I guess that all names, in the mundane as well as pagan world, have meaning to those who bestowed that name. Whether it was bestowed by the parents, the guardians, the elders, or the self. Think of all the baby-name books and you can guarantee that in western culture, most names are chosen because they not only sound well, but because they have a meaning attached. I guess some have a lot to live up to (mine means "Victor of the people" - I've still to figure out exactly how I do that and what people! ).

But not only the meaning behind the name, the very name itself can label people. Everyone has a mental picture of "Sharon", "Chantelle", "Camilla", "Humphrey" etc. There's always an association of an image attached with each name.

Basically you're labelled in many ways as soon as your name is given to you.

Regarding a label for my beliefs - I tend to go with Pagan. Like Thinair says, you don't normally get beyond that! If I'm in a pagan gathering though, I've had to gently correct people who assume that because I'm pagan, I'm Wiccan. THAT bugs me to be honest, as though it's the only branch of paganism.

If I were to drill down the belief labels further, then I suppose I go with Roman Polytheist in terms of beliefs, in terms of witchcraft practices - whatever comes to hand - garden, kitchen, toolbox...

I don't have a craft name but when I was about ten (I think) I made my confimation and chose a confirmation name.

For those not in the know, confirmation is a time (is it just in the Catholic church?)when you are asked to think seriously about your faith and make the choice to enter the church as an adult. The Holy Spirit comes down and the Bishop slaps you on the face!

OK, perhaps a slightly flippant explaination but it's all I can come up with just now. If anyone wants to elaborate please do.

Anyway, you choose a saint you identify with and take that as your name. I chose Cecilia, patron saint of Music. Although I tend to think that ten may be too young to make that decision perhaps at that age you are more able to listen to your soul because that still really means something to me now. Could it be that sometimes the decisions you don't think too hard about are the best ones?

Take, for instance, my online name - Tilia - I hadn't really thought about it but when I filled in the form to join I had to come up with something and Tilia europaea was a herb I was looking into at the time so - Tilia it is. I like it. I think it suits me. I feel like a "Tilia"

Many years ago, when I first discovered this whole pagan malarky, I thought about a "name" but I just never really felt comfortable with it. I suppose I felt a bit pretentious about the whole thing. So I left it. I figured that if I was meant to have a name it would find me.

Great thread Bethan - I hadn't really thought about the connection between my confirmation name and the idea of a "craft name". Thanks


edited to correct the spelling of my confirmation name

I had a craft name "Lord Silver-Moonbeams Bunny Dancer Dragon-Friend"

Trouble was it was so big I could never get it out in one breath

To be honest I am who I am and if any God has a problem remembering then I don't think I'll be worshipping them.

I identify as a Pagan (adding Neo seems to confuse people who fill out forms) and if pushed say I am a solitary eclectic not-witch.

I don't claim to be a witch and if anyone calls me a Wiccan I think they will soon realise that 'Harm None' does not rule my actions


If asked what Pagan means I tell them that it comes from the old Roman word for local and was corrupted by Christianity to become a catch-all for anyone who doesn't follow an Abrahamic path.

If people still ask questions I point out I worship an old and powerful War Goddess.....

Oh I bleedin' hate that word. If you're a 'neo'-nazi, you're still a bloomin' nazi. If you're a neo-pagan, you're still a bloody pagan. Can't stand 'neo' this, 'neo' that. Feel like i'm at a Matrix convention.

Marion.

I define myself as a Hedge witch... of a simaler vein to the kitchen witch.... i grow stuff walk in woods and generally find a connection with nature through a study of many religions such as taoism, buddhism and the Gia theory ( ala James Lovelock) which i am still investigating. My role as a hedgewitch seems to incorporate all the positive sides of what i like about these relgious theory, without being overly tied to the more elusive Wiccan idea, which i find opperessive and a little too formal ( as cosmic fool pointed out with his example of a name) i do however think that it is each to their own and that no matter what you beleive at least you have a belief system and a spirituality. I respect anyone who follows any path as sometimes those paths can be difficult to follow.

As for names, Arrianwin is how i define myself in my online life, if only so that i find it more easy to use stuff like email, Melanie Smith is such a commen name to use online! everyone has it!!!!!!

BB
Mell aka Arrianwin

I beg to differ, all the blood was taken out of Neopaganism to avoid shocking people

* arrianwin has just laughed loudly in the ICT suite at work... everyone now thinks she is totally nuts!*

oopsie!

LOL

Possibly, I just call them wiccans. *RG&D*

Sorry, that wasn't called for. It's become fashionable to bash wiccans hasn't it. Still, I deliberately didn't use a capital 'W' to distinguish form those who are initiated

Right, blue touch paper.....and retire

Coz!! lol As I understood it, neo pagan is used by some to differeniate between pagan as in more of the archaeological or historical term and todays pagan. I just say pagan as it's what I am.


Ah but would that be self iniated or coven initated W/wiccans?

As I understood it, neo pagan is used by some to differeniate between pagan as in more of the archaeological or historical term and todays pagan. I just say pagan as it's what I am.

When asked I am pagan and within paganism I am a witch. That is what I am. Nearest path description is hedgewitch

A few years ago on here in a similar topic, I was still occasionally using a magical name. However, it is exceptionally interesting to note the name as given to me has direct links to my main Goddess now. It was actually a meaning of her name which was odd to say the least and predated her presence in my life by many years. However I tend to think of magical names as being modern wiccan in origin. Ignoring the need of earlier covens predating wicca for discretion that is

What I've always found odd though is the tendancy of some to annouce to all their magical name, whereas I was always taught to share it only with your Gods, and your coven if you have one. Your magical name is something you may use within magic and ritual, for walking in both worlds and for working in both worlds. Therefore you are using it in a place that is potentially dangerous. To hand it out to strangers on the internet is something I find rather odd, but it also becomes potential fun for certain others

I also make no difference between my magical or mundane self. I am what I am, the path I walk is my home, my garden, my woods, my life. What you see is what you get Even if it doesn't make sense

Ah well, you see I tend to call mine a belief system rather than faith. And never religion


Oh we've had some great threads about eclectics here lol And for me it does mean a pick and mix attitude, mixing pantheons and practice for the hell of it


As I said in my previous post, I'm pagan, a witch. I tell all that. I would tell a pagan I was a hedgewitch though as they would have more understanding about it.

But you see we all come at this from angles and beliefs which is why we are so diverse

Good point - people asked us if we were going to have some kind of naming ceremony for our daughter when she was born, knowing that we weren't about to have a baptism. We thought about it and decided that anyone important in her life would know what she was called, and the Gods knew where to find her if they wanted her!

On that score I don't think a name is necessary to a deity - if they want you badly enough, you'll hear the "Oi you!" no matter where you are or what you're doing...

I've also heard it banded about from more learned folk than I, that when the great Pagan revival began it was all dancing nymphs and nekkid cavorting (the 2 going together perhaps ) and all reference to blood sacrifice and darkness was blue penciled so as not to shock the church and its flock. They eventually, er, christened it Neopagan to differentiate the original from the new (proto New Age) form.

Course since then people like Bonewits have got their finger in the pie and produced Paleo- and Meso- Paganism just to confuse us more.

K

oh bloody hell, I'd not heard that one before