Here's the scenario:

A child is born to two loving parents, one parent is a Witch who hasn't told anyone about his/her beliefs and the other is a firm Catholic with a strict Catholic family. It is already decided that the child will be baptised and brought-up under Christian teachings, however, the Witch would like to give his/her child guidance in Paganism wherever possible but of course would have to do this on the 'hush-hush'. The pagan parent knows that revieling his/her true beliefs to the other-half may have serious implications on their relationship, both with them and with their family.

Given this situation, do you think it would be ethically correct to teach the child about paganism in this way?

Blimey Not a good situation at all, so basically PP (pagan Parent) is lying to CP (Catholic Parent) about his/her beliefs.. and if were to teach the child would also be encouraging the child to lie to CP.. unless of course it was innocuous stuff like taking the child out into the countryside and teaching the child about the land, how to recognise trees, mushrooms that kind of thing. Perhaps reciting folktales.

And no I don't think it's the way to teach the child about paganism.. in a sense PP is acting as if his/her beliefs are something to be ashamed of, to be hidden away and at the end of the day it is lying. There is no other way to look at it.

I don't envy PP at all, lying to one's partner about something as fundamental as belief ain't good, and if that is carried over to the child too.. it's worst. In my opinion the child is either left to grow up as a Catholic and perhaps the PP can instill a love and appreciation of nature into the child, or PP comes clean to CP and a compromise is reached.

To charge a child with keeping one's secret from the other parent is wrong in my opinion.

PP is going to have to come clean to CP and they're going to have to thrash it out.

I agree with both of the above posts. I dont envy the pagan Parent at all as they are in a very sticky situation a relationship which is hiding such a big lie is never good, and as Very said depending how the parent were to teach the child pagan values they would be encourageing the child to lie to the other parent and also instilling an element of shame about paganism which definatly shouldn't happen on both counts.

Concur with the above. It's a toughy. But relationships are liable tp suffer when there is deceit. I know I would find it very dificult to live a lie. Even worse to want a child to live that lie too. Sorry I can't think of anything more comforting.

BB

Mike

I dont understand. Really I dont. I dont know how you can go through life as a witch and not have it known by your partner, the man you have a child with. How do you hide it? Why would you hide it?

With regards to the child, no I certainly would not do it behind someones back! Being ashamed of what you are is no place to be teaching from. You teach deceit, fear and that what you do is wrong, you make it a dirty secret and something for the child to grow up ashamed of too.

I'm going to have to agree with Xalle here*hey hun *.

For starters what type of relationship are these folks in that this person has to lie. Not right. And yes, i would strongly advise against teaching the child any paganism, it will instill a sense of guilt that the catholic church coined and paganism doesnt need or want.
Sorry to be so harsh, but this is a very odd situation indeed in this day n age.

Lion

It is a delicate situation not telling your partner that your a pagan/witch and especially were a child is involved. Although in my own situation there was no young children involved, and so I didnt have to face that particular dilema, I still had to face the dilema of keeping from my wife of 35 years that I was a pagan/witch and in my case my children did become aware of that fact and did support me to a degree, some of them were ok about, some of them were not, and for my sake kept the secret. As you will understand a far from ideal situation, now the reason for this secret was the fact that when I first expressed an interest in witchcraft and with my wife's knowledge attended a couple of moots she was far from happy and asked me wouldnt I prefer to go to one of my concerts rather than attend moots. So from that time I kept my activities a secret from her rather than make waves, was I right, or was I wrong?, at the time I thought I was right to maintain the lie. Now this led to tremendous pressure on me by having to hide my beliefs, and added to other things led to me having a breakdown, and at that time it all came out, tears were shed. Now this was all over three years ago, and gradually over those three years my wife has come to accept who and what I am, not only that but has been into a witchy shop with me, made all the bags for my crystals and even one for my staff(which she dislikes), and in this last week picked up a leaflet which I didnt see advertising a mind, body and spirit show, which she insists I should attend. Sorry to have dragged on but needed to explain my reasons for saying, tell your non pagan partner for they are far more understanding than you realise, and in the long run will save a lot of tears

I would say that the problem was one that was just waiting to happen. A little foresight and honesty would have solved the problem before it occured.

The basic question is this:

Having concealed the fact that you are pagan for so long , is this this really the best time to come out of the broom closet ? It is risking everything that you have built up in your relationship so far. Allbeit a relationship of limited trust. The other way is to keep things as they are and to trust that the child will find its own path. After all there are many ex-catholics and other ex-christians on this site . I have both parents ordianed into the C of E, for instance.

hope this helps.

Agree with the others about the adults sorting out their relationship.

Spare a thought for the kid though - suppose he/she doesn't want to be brought up as either a Catholic or a Pagan - doesn't seem to have been consulted either way. I think people have too high an expectation when they say they are going to bring their kids up in this religion or that religion. Let's face it - it's a fair guess that many, if not most of the people on this site no longer have the same religion as their parents, so why should we expect our kids to defer to our beliefs?

Make sure there are source materials for all beliefs and humanist philosophies in the house. Be prepared to answer lots of questions. Get to know people from different backgrounds. Do your own spirtiual traditions as a family on the clear understanding and teaching that this is a result of your own decision making and that participation is welcome but not mandatory. Bring a kid up this way and their beliefs will come in their own good time - it just might not be the same as yours though. Is that such a bad thing?

Ohh I thought I was the only one that did glad to know I am not alone

agree with practically everything thats been said.
seems its all down to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

after all they dont burn witches anymore! (not in europe anyway)

i agree with the majority who think that the parents have to discuss their differences in belief and preferably soon. I definitely dont think that the pagan parent should be teaching anything to the child behind anyone's back - besides what makes the pp qualified to teach anything?

if paganism is raised as a topic at school, then perhaps the pp would have opportunities to show the child which websites and facts are right about paganism (rather than, as my niece announced when i saw her the other day that all pagans are satanists) and the rights and wrongs of pagan beliefs, but other than that i would leave it until the child either asks questions or feels drawn to follow a pagan pathway for itself.

blessings to all

You say 'it is already decided' to raise the children as catholics? By whom? Did PP really have a say, did CP insist, or was it just sort of accepted as the done thing to keep the right side of CP's family?

I agree with those who have pointed out that PP must, for hir own mental health if nothing else, let CP know about hir beliefs, even if this starts as subtle stuff. At the end of the day either the relationship is strong enough to survive or it isn't.

I was a PP married to a CP in a RC church, having to make the vows to raise the child (can't remember the exact words), but the boys weren't baptised until it came to the question of schooling (and it felt like the biggest betrayal of my life to allow it), and visited stone circles and the like from an early age. Nothing was forced down their throats and both have a healthy skepticism about such matters. I left the priest who married us in no doubt as to my beliefs of the time - but I hadn't realised at that point that I was a pagan, not until about 18 months later. In the end the ex had an affair with another pagan and attended a few moots.

Let's just say that PP was happy to along with the status-quo knowing that the child, when they're old enough, would be free to choose to follow Christianity or Paganism or whatever they wanted to as a religion. PP isn't going to throw a robe over the child and lead him/her into the woods under a full moon, but only had the intention of guiding them into having a sort of 'essence' of Paganism (i.e. loving and respecting the Earth, trying to see the magic in life and suggesting that there may actually be a female diety as well as a male one...



Also, PP will more than likely tell CP their true belielfs but it just needs time - as does everything this important.

I don't think children should be allowed to participate in any religion. I don't think that they should make the decision until they are old enough to decide what they want to be and why they want to be it.

However I'd have huge concerns about the adults relationship. WHilst I believe my religion and paganism are private where are they at for the christian parent to assume that the child willl be brought up christian. Does he just think the pagan parent is non religious or is there a deception going on. If the pagan parent is pretending to be christian to her nearest and dearest I personally think the relationship is in trouble.

Heathen children are part of the kindred. While they probably wouldn't be part of all rituals, they are certainly encouraged to take part in the toasting and feasting rituals which are integral to heathenry. A child can make a promise or a boast about their achievements, or honour their ancestors and their heroes.

It would not be usual for a child under 14 to pledge themselves to any deity, though some do it anyway, and in the group where I trained, children were first taught formally about the gods and the ancestors when they were 7, were taught basic social skills such as poetry-making, singing and the necessary craft skills and so on from then until 14, then from 14 to 21 taught skills such as meditation, more advanced poetic and musical skills, more craft skills, and finally allowed to take their first full part at whatever festival (Midsummer, one of the Turnings, Yule, Mothers Night, the particular festivals of the various deities and ancestors) happened after their 21st birthday.

There are modern groups which celebrate the man-making and woman-making of their children at the appropriate age, making a celebration of the onset of adulthood with attendant assumption of responsibilities and rights at menarche and first stubble

I see no reason at all why children should not be religious.

Just not forced into any or one particular religion.

--

Jez

Yep agree totally.
My child once he's old enough will be more than welcome to participate in the bits and bats I do and there will be skills etc I'll teach him... if he chooses to become pagan great if he chooses something else, fine, it's his life I can't live it for him my only concern is my child grows up to be well adjusted and happy.