While reading some of the new members introduction threads, I wonder about one thing.

Mostly it seems, that the new member say "Hi, I´m a pagan"

...

Pagan. Okay. But...what kinda pagan? I thought the word "pagan" is used in UK as like the word "heathen" in germany, but in germany "heathen" means only you´re not a follower of the three bookreligions, so it can mean all or nothing. Is there a special meaning for the word pagan in UK or is it only natural that there is a major pagan path at the isles?

I must confess, I´m a little bit confused.





bb Rattenfaenger

Well, Heathen here means that you follow a Heathen path, ie, the Northern traditions - Norse, Astaru etc (one of the Heathens here can correct my terminology/definition )

Pagan is a term for those who follow earth-based beliefs. Usually those who are polytheistic, or don't follow one of the main Abrahamic belief systems. So it can include Wicca, wicca, eclectic, druid, and so on.

Pagan does include Heathen for the reasons mentioned above, although, I should stress that the definition of Pagan and whether Pagan can include Heathenism, is something which is often hotly debated.

Sorry, still doesn´t figures out for me, why most people introduce themselve here only with pagan and not with which special path.

The definitions are here nearly same as in UK (but I wonder wether asatru or celtois don´t follow an earth-based belief?)

Hi, Rattenfaenger!

I know what you mean, it's a bit confusing for us german-speaking people (ja, ich oute mich jetzt auch mal als eine solche).
As far as I know they use the term "pagan" for all the different paths, "heathen" only referrs to what we would call Asatru.
I think a lot of people here don't mention a specific path 'cause they haven't chosen one yet or they don't want to be "put in a box".
I hope this was helpful

**finally posting after BT cut me off for half an hour **

Prepare to get even more confused Rattenfaenger....

In the UK Pagan can mean one of the following..

A follower of a modern Neopagan religion - Wicca for example

A follower of a reconstructed pagan religion - Helenismos or Religio Romana for example

A follower of a religion or spirituality that is influenced or inspired by a non-Abrahamic faith - usually indigenous to Europe but not always - a personal path for example

While many will give you their specific path, some may simply describe themselves as Pagan or Neopagan.

Heathens over here tend to be followers of specifically the Germanic/Norse pantheons and they may simply follow their own understanding of the sagas and eddas within modern life or may be more deeply reconstructionist and seek to get as close as possible to the source.


On a bad day you might get people, largely its visiting Americans or poorly read newbies, that equate Pagan with Wiccan and look no further.

Hope that helps

Kev

PS Personally I like that people put Pagan before their specific path as it aids in establishing a Pagan presence in the country

[having a little argument ´bout german definitions]Also soweit ich weiss, definiert "Heide" nur, das man kein Anhänger abrahamitischer Religionen ist. Das hat doch mit Asatru nicht zu tun. (BTW. ich kenn da jemanden, der hat nen netten Aufklärungsflyer zum Thema Heiden und Heidentum)[/having a little argument ´bout german definitions]

@Cosmicfool
Okay, I got it. In germany it´s not that way. We use very rarely the word pagan but merly the word "Heide" (heathen), but with no special way bound to that. It means only, your not an christlemew. Few germans equals heathen to godless people (atheistics for example).

It´s quite different I think.

Oh, okay, I see what you mean.

In the UK, people who are not Pagan or Heathen, use both those words to insult anyone who doesn't follow one of the main religions.

So, for example, if someone doesn't go to church, they might be referred to as a "Godless Heathen".

The clergy in Britain have referred to the more secular areas of society as "pagan".

It's only really Pagans (as in ones who call themselves Pagans) or some more enlightened non-Pagans who use the term properly. And then, like Cos has said, Pagan can mean lots of different things, which is why people might just call themselves "Pagan".

Pagan and Heathen are originally deragatory names. And I agree with your german bit (being Dutch I can read it fine) as well, since it's largely similar in the Netherlands. In Dutch, both Pagan and Heathen are 'Geuzen'-names, i.e. something you get called by your enemies, but which you adopt as a badge of pride. Although we mostly use 'heiden'.

Also, there are plenty of people who are Pagan without following a specific path. I tend to call them the 'generic pagans', and actually started a Meetup group to create a space for such people as well (and I just enjoy getting together with other pagans).

*amused* Hehe... know the feeling, råttfångare! We in Sweden use "hedning" (heathen) the same way you germans do.(Not a christian) It´s a language thing... and about different definitions and values, based on old traditions and cultures.
Blessings
Deerheart

Some people only self define as pagan as they do not have a defined clearly labelled not to say dogmatic path. And thats perfectly ok. Also, this site is for those that are interested in paganism but are new or pondering where their interests lie, would you ask those to start jumping into pigeonholes right away ? If they don't have a special path then expecting them to define themselves as Pagan type X Y or Z is a touch intimidating.

UK Pagan. The Pagan bit is enough, I feel.

Well in Germany I never really made a difference when it comes to the word "Pagan" or "Heathen". I consider myself a heathen (in Germany) because I do not follow a clearly defined path. Being in the UK I'd consider myself a Pagan. At the end of the day I am Milla .

Here in Südbaden I'm known as "heidenisch", perhaps even somewhat Germanically so, but my parents are definitely atheists, whereas my brother is an avid supporter of matriarchal faiths. Neither of us were ever baptized, so I guess that speaks for itself.

Keine Sorge Rattenfänger, du kannst dich in aller Ruhe und Gelassenheit hier "Pagan" nännen. Dieser Forum stellt sich da als heidenischer Allgemeinheit um die freie Meinungsrechte alle Heiden zu repräsentieren, im Gegensatz zu "Abrahamitischem Konformen".

Yes Tilla, it appears your translator went a bit screwy, here's what I really said:

No worries Rattenfaenger, you can in all confidence and ease call yourself a Pagan here. This forum presents itself as the general Pagan community, representing its rights of free expression, contrary to the conforms of "Abrahamism".

Interesting to learn that Pagans outside the UK don't self-describe the way that we do!

I wonder whether it has something to do with the way the UK Pagan movement has evolved over the years, from what was originally almost entirely Wiccan (and identified itself as such) to a much broader creature that encompasses the range of different paths.

Also interestingly, I've noticed (like in discussions around the Census) that it's the Heathen folks who are sometimes more reluctant to describe themselves as Pagans.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

I agree. What´s why I asked for. In different countrys there are different ways to understand things.

I dont entirely agree with that. I think the stronger Wiccan = pagan association emanates from the States. Very frequently I have to qualify any self description of myself to an American as being a pagan with " and I'm NOT Wicccan ". Also I don't know about a movement but identifiable paganism in the UK predates Wiccan by a very long time. Just because you're a pagan doesn't necessarily mean you are a witch or use magic

Pagan - when people don't assume it means wiccan - has become a general catch-all term, and such terms can be misleading.

I use heathen, then clarify it to the blank looks as 'one of the pagan religions' or - if the look is not blank - as 'mainly AS/Frisian'.

--

When I use pagan, if the looks are not blank, then I get the eight festivals and do you dance naked bit, which is a tad misleading when I don't celebrate the wiccan festivals nor go naked for ritual...

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Jez - who has about given up on the term pagan now