Red Thread – A Race Apart
an essay by
Sara Hewitt

So far I have only posted in the ninth wave tread on this site, eventually getting the question I wanted an answer to, answered to my satisfaction
Some of the posters dismiss the essay as complete rubbish, others want to investigate it further to see if there anything of use to be gained from it.


Anyone want to start off?

woodman

Would it be an idea to post a link to the essay for anyone who hasn't been reading the other thread?

Well, we were looking at the meaning of the name, Sara Hewitt, and I still have an unanswered question about that. And what about posting the essay, or a link?

The essay can be found Here Just scroll down a little.

No.

Thank you for that Hernoakshild.
I tend to agree with you on the name as a starting point Nel, So far two options are visible, that doesn't mean there can’t be more.
I. Its just a name.
2. There is meaning behind the name.

I tend to go with the second option as it ties in with the context of the essay, when you look at it form the angle of what a princess is, and what a cutting is.

woodman

Well, a princess seems to be a daughter or granddaughter of a monarch, or the wife of a prince. And a cutting, a part taken off a plant in order to grow another.

is a cutting not also a pathway?

Yes, Tilia, I hadn't thought of that. So 'princess of the pathway'?

Tilia wrote:

is a cutting not also a pathway?

You could be right on that Tilia, like Nel, I had not thought of that, probably because I would know it as a “Cut”.
So while not dismissing it, Nel’s answer ties in a little better to essay in a primary linking while yours suggests a more subtle linking, personally I would keep your possibility until the third level becomes apparent, if it does.

Nel wrote:

Well, a princess seems to be a daughter or granddaughter of a monarch, or the wife of a prince. And a cutting, a part taken off a plant in order to grow another.

Another way of saying what you’ve said is that, a princess is the daughter of a mother, and that mother is in this case a Queen. She could also be know as a cutting of the mother, keeping in mind that many cuttings can be taken from the original.

To tie it all together in the naming aspect of the essay I would say that “princess of the cutting” could mean, when used in the context of the essay, “daughter of the witch mother.”

woodman

I don't really get the significance of this, woodman. Anyone could call themselves 'daughter of the witch mother'. There is the question of why they would want to, and in 'code' like this. On another thread here, several questions were asked about the witch mother, but I don't think much was given in the way of answers. What has all this got to do with what the essay actually says, and the truth, or not, of that?

As this topic & essay originates with Arrdhu & Ravening ( Ravening being born of Arddhu) its interesting to look at the info on the old Arddhu sites via the Wayback machine. I will find the link & post it at the end of this post. It may shed light but you have to remember the Teacher/ Mother/Lady of the Ravening group was these
" officials" & also did the Arrdhu website until a couple of years ago.

1.Internet Archive: Wayback Machine
About the Wayback Machine Browse through 85 billion web pages archived from 1996 to a few months ago. To start surfing the Wayback, type in the web address of a site or page...

www.archive.org

the old Arrdhu web address was www.arddhu.co.uk

Nel wrote:
I don't really get the significance of this, woodman. Anyone could call themselves 'daughter of the witch mother'. There is the question of why they would want to, and in 'code' like this. On another thread here, several questions were asked about the witch mother, but I don't think much was given in the way of answers. What has all this got to do with what the essay actually says, and the truth, or not, of that?


I’m not, actually interested in either Ravening or Arddhu as witches of the red thread I’m solely interested in the essay. Not being a witch of any kind, I wanted to know how the second level of a story, that comes from North of the English border, ended up on a website under the name of Sara Hewitt. So knowing what the name means and how it came to be used is quite a relevant point to the overall subject matter.
Another point to consider about the use of the word Princess is that traditionally Royal blood lines have always been considered as “different” from the population that they live with, usually being, in some way linked to the gods
.
The essay, in it’s grammar, style, presentation, wording, etc it show it to be written by those that I grew up with, which in its self is an interesting point to me.
Having had correspondence with Ravening on these points, I have no problem with the essay being on their site, or their assumed right to make use of it, not that it would make any difference to them, if I did, or so, I would assume.

As a side note to the essay, Serenade’s link to the old Ardhhu site sheds a little light on how Arddhu originally viewed the subject matter of Red Thread, 9 maidens, and the witch mother, in contradiction to what they have been saying on this site in recent threads.
How misleading!

woodman

I really have to say, that I feel all these issues have been addressed in previous threads...if there are still misunderstandings then maybe it is down to the part of those reading it and not the explanations given. I for one, will hold my hands up and say, I have not understood all that has been said on red thread..but have taken what I perceive and learned quite a bit actually..

Woodcrowman..your posts just seem to want to attack Arddhu..therefore i would question your motives? Moderators..do we really need to keep resurecting this tired old theme now...it is obvious that those who are part of the red thread groups are not going to explain it in layman's terms..but it seems that there are still those who wish to atagonise them...what's the point?

natures spirit wrote:
I really have to say, that I feel all these issues have been addressed in previous threads...if there are still misunderstandings then maybe it is down to the part of those reading it and not the explanations given. I for one, will hold my hands up and say, I have not understood all that has been said on red thread..but have taken what I perceive and learned quite a bit actually..

I’m pleased for you, that you have learned from the previous thread natures spirit, and you could be right, in that the fault of “not learning” from them is possibly down to the people reading them. It which case I would think that the issues have not be suitably addressed to their satisfaction.
None of the previous threads dealt with the essay which is the subject matter of this thread. Unless of course, ridiculing, deriding, misdirecting, slandering, etc is how you consider the correct and only acceptable way of dealing with the subject matter to your satisfaction. It certainly is not mine, and if others want to discuss it, is that not part of the aim of places like this to allow all, and not just the few, to enquire and express opinions of the individual mind.



Woodcrowman..your posts just seem to want to attack Arddhu..therefore i would question your motives?

As I said natures spirit, I “had” no interest in either group originally, but I do tend to give what I get, and what I have, both witnessed, and experienced from the contact with both groups has been an eye opener to say the least.

Having seen at least three people driven off these boards, by the “Arddhu Loyal” as they seem to be calling themselves these days, I do tend to get slightly annoyed when I see underhand, bulling ways gain the upper hand. More so when I read the emails from the site I have placed on freewebs to keep the Arddhu site company, thank you pinksheep for giving me the idea.. I hope my motives are crystal clear to you now.


(And if your reading this silent whisper: http://www.freewebs.com/arrdhuwitchcraft/)


Natures spirit wrote:
Moderators..do we really need to keep resurecting this tired old theme now...it is obvious that those who are part of the red thread groups are not going to explain it in layman's terms

Your presupposing that only Red thread groups know the meaning, or that it can not be worked out without them, or that they won’t lend a hand at some time in the future, and that you have the right to censor the way subjects change direction.

Natures spirit wrote:
but it seems that there are still those who wish to atagonise them...what's the point,

If antagonising happens as a result of detail becoming clear, or to clear a path to detail, that’s the way it works as far as I am concerned, and there’s always “point” in learning. Why not take Tas Mania’s lead and ignore the thread is it’s not to your liking. You’ll find that the moderators will not let it degenerate in to an Arddhu hate thread.

woodman

Yep, as stated before, I'm not going to contribute to this thread so that I can step in if needs be, and obviously the other Mods will be keeping an eye on it too.

It's breaking no site rules, and hasn't attacked anyone, merely, from what I can see, queried previous statements, so on that basis I'm happy to let this run.

Thanks for letting me know the link does not work.
Hopefully it will now,

: http://www.freewebs.com/arrdhuwitchcraft/

woodman

DISCLAIMER: UKP and its moderators are not responsible for the content of external sites.

I really am at a loss to comprehend the reasons (other than O.C.D.)behind you posting this weird link! Now, maybe I'm incredibly dumb, but I fail to understand how on earth this thread has been allowed to degenerate into yet another dumping ground for the apparently unvented spleen of people who seem to have their own axes to grind!
Couldn't you just cast a super-dooper nasty hex on the awful Arddhu people or something? As an academically inclined individual (judging by your posts so far)you no doubt have the necessary knowledge to do so? You seem to have enough spare time on your hands.
Otherwise, might I for one suggest that you start an entirely separate thread, with a suitably graphic title, in which you can happily "twitter" away to yourself and anyone else who cares to become involved in this self-indugent spitefulness?
I'm off to make some mulled cider. There are some wonderful threads on all things festive, this being the "season" of goodwill [sic].

Ive just looked at that spoof arddhu site and its quite clear that its attempt to get what would be copy righted material such as their magazine,from ex members under guise the of helping them but in reality the motive is to nick the arddhu course material which effectively is illegal and should be reported

I have to agree with the sheep...Woodcrowman you tore apart my last post in attempt to verify your claims to creating a post dedicated to the essay by Sarah Hewitt, yet completely clarify my accusation of attacking a single group. Your website is nothing more than mudslinging and has reduced you from an "academic" to nothing more than a petty wannabe.

As I said to the moderators before, I felt this was ressurecting stuff that had already been addressed in previous threads, and was told that it had broken no rules...ok fair point...if there is a valid topic to be discussed then, yes, we all have the right to do that...but my gut instinct told me you have put this post up to degenerate it into an attack against a group you have had nothing good to say about from the start...and it is looking as if my instincts were correct.

You told me I had no right to censor information...OK..that is fine..I would not dream of it..but in return you have no right to try to influence others into believing that some people are capable of harm when you have no real evidence. If you have real evidence then I would suggest you take it out of the forums and to the correct authorities..something I do not think you can do.

What gives you the right to set yourself up as a vigilante to those who have supposedly suffered at the hands of those wishing to control??? and where the hell do you get off asking for personal information about these members. Ok some of the members may have made themselves known but I am guessing there are also those who wish to remain elusive through having families that may not understand their beliefs. You have no right to this information.

You made a big deal about the £75 quid that these groups charge for their "teachings", so I would now ask why you think you are entitled to this for nothing. If students have paid their monies and worked hard through these moons then I would imagine they would feel extremely annoyed at you getting it for nowt.

Moderators, you say you have no authority over outside websites, but this website is being advertised on your forum...surely you can see that this person has no other agenda than to try and atagonise a certain group of people. Yes i have the right NOT to read this thread..but I also have the right to air my opinion...and I do not like the way this thread is going.

Woodcrowman, You may think me a bit daft because I have posted on more fun threads and had a laugh..fair enough..but I also have a brain in my head and I do practice what I preach...and I can see right through you mate.

I have seen nothing on these sites to suggest abuse of any sort, except a lack of undestanding on others' part.

To all of my mates on here..sorry for the rant but it had to be said.

Okay.

Look, it's been said before.

Manners. Use them.

We can't control outside links. If someone wants to post a link, fine - the content of that site is beyond our control. If you don't like it - don't click it. If you want to discuss a particular site - also fine. Start a new thread, post the link, tell us calmly and rationally your thoughts on it, and discussion can happen.

Personal attacks - not tolerated.

oh, and the whole "keep on topic" thing? Doesn't seem to be happening.

This thread is for discussion of the Sara Hewitt essay. Not for mudslinging and personal insults.

natures_spirit and Tas_Mania, please try to be polite to each other?

I'm going to be watching this thread this evening. Keep on topic. If not, the thread will be locked, and warnings will be issued.

Thank you Woodsong - I agree this has gone far enough.

The link posted by Woodcrowman has, as I am sure everyon is aware, nothing to do with Arddhu.

The site has been reported to all the relevant authourities for the following-

attempts to steal copyrighted material,
defammation of character
Abuse.

I am asking the moderators to lock this thread if these personal attacks continue. it wont be tolerated either - especially when I made it clear on another thread that we would not enter in any more of the debates on this subject.

This is one of the reasons why Arddhu does not engage in forums very often - sadly others simply cannot behave themselves when Arddhu have a presence anywhere on line.

Most forum members here are lovely, are willing to debate things sensibly,and I for one have been really impressed with the level of debate that goes on in some of the threads. and we have made some good friends here. Hopefully this will now be resolved properly and this thread will not be allowed to continue.

Blessings to you all

Severed Solo

[/quote]

Sorry Woodsong, I wasn't trying to be awkward...just pointing out the errors in Woodcrowman's original post back to myself....

erm wasn't aware I had fallen out with Tas mania...

severedsolo, your intention is appreciated, but please leave moderating to the moderators. Rest assured, if any member here makes a personal attack on any other member, we will deal with it appropriately.

natures_spirit, my apologies, it's been a tough week. That should have read "natures_spirit and Tas_Mania, please try to be polite". Which means generally. To everyone.

If you've got a problem with anyone or any post, please, please report it to a moderator first, and we will deal with it, rather than seeing more threads descend into personal insults.

Now. Back to the topic, ladies and gents?

Fair enough woodsong...but in my defence..i didn't take it off topic..i merely pointed out that the link which was posted had taken the post away from the original topic...which was started by the person posting the link...i will be quiet now..

*nature stands in corner with finger on lips

[quote=severedsolo,Dec 15 2006, 11:11 PM]
Thank you Woodsong - I agree this has gone far enough.

The link posted by Woodcrowman has, as I am sure everyon is aware, nothing to do with Arddhu.

The site has been reported to all the relevant authourities for the following-

attempts to steal copyrighted material,
defammation of character
Abuse.

I am asking the moderators to lock this thread if these personal attacks continue. it wont be tolerated either - especially when I made it clear on another thread that we would not enter in any more of the debates on this subject.

This is one of the reasons why Arddhu does not engage in forums very often - sadly others simply cannot behave themselves when Arddhu have a presence anywhere on line.

Most forum members here are lovely, are willing to debate things sensibly,and I for one have been really impressed with the level of debate that goes on in some of the threads. and we have made some good friends here. Hopefully this will now be resolved properly and this thread will not be allowed to continue.

Blessings to you all

Severed Solo

[/quote]

[/quote]
Hi.
We would wish to make it known that the said spoof site has not been constructed
by or endorsed by SOMERSET KNOT.
S.

Ahem.


ON TOPIC.


TOPIC NOT BEING THE SPOOF OR OTHERWISE SITE.

But our info is that the original Arddhu site was constructed by the Ravening woman.Thats where all this stems from.

Well i just looked at your site DarkVixen...looks like a load o tut to me. all i see is a site about slagging off other paths, an no content as 'to what a witch is, or what a witch does'.

Me thinks people in glass houses shouldnt moan about stone throwing, if all they can do is lob pebbles at other homes.

You are a spammer . Post up with some truths, an knowledge to back up your words or give over.
Dont be preaching at us afor you get your own site sorted,,it's a load o rubbish, just slagging off other paths with no content.

Rain

I expect reactions like yours.This is simply because you are not involved in anything other than the New Age Traditions you try to defend.I am not preaching and our site is factual.Trouble is,the truth often hurts.Spammer??In what way?We can throw stones as our house is built on reality-not invention.

**Mod Hat ON**

As has already been pointed out on this thread by Woodsong this is a thread discussing the Sara Hewitt essay. It is not a thread to discuss the validity of another website.

Pointing you all once again to the rules of the forums which you can find HERE

Manners.
Remember to use them.

Personal Attacks.
No personal attacks, period.

Stay on Topic.
Stick to the topic of the area and the thread. Individual forums may have their own rules, read these and stick to them.


If the thread does not go back on topic It will be locked.

**Mod Hat OFF**

Right Sara Hewitt essay...what do I think?

Personally I don't buy the whole mythos of the Red Thread. I think it's a round the houses, convoluted way to describe that 'spark' that a natural Witch has. I agree that not everyone is a Witch nor has the talent for Witchcraft but there's really no need to make such a song and dance about it. Then again, I suppose if you add a good story to anything, it 'sells' better.
There are two problems I have with the red thread theory as laid out in Sara Hewitt's essay, in some ways it sounds almost as though it's like a type of DNA. However that would be awfully inconvenient for a group wishing to find people to train and possibly initiate. So then it becomes not a case of genes because then that would exclude everyone bar the families already involved. Another problem I have with the essay and pretty much everyone in these circles is the omission of either indirect or direct articles before the word Witch.

'I am Witch'

What the hell is wrong with writing 'I am a Witch' (or if you're really egotistical - 'I am the Witch')??? Whenever I read the words 'I am Witch', it makes me wonder if the author of the sentence is taking grammar tips from that film 'Clan of the Cave Bear'. I can almost hear the 'UGG!'s.

Then there's the catch 22 for the uninitiated into these traditions, the whole 'if you don't believe us then *obviously* your instincts are off as Witches and you're not 'ready' for what we can teach' clause.

It's a great psychological technique. People seek validation from their peers, whether we admit it or not. I mean look at a lot of the threads on here, a lot of them are asking if other people have had the same experiences as you or the same ideas. It's people looking for validation and with a subject as subjective as Witchcraft, you want to know that you're not going just a teensy bit crazy. You *want* others to see the same as you, especially if you look up to them in some kind of way. Things happen to you, you're making things happen and you *know* deep down that you are a Witch. Then people come along who claim to have the only keys to becoming a Witch and that basically everything you've ever done or learnt isn't *really* Witchcraft. So then you start to have doubts about if you are a Witch or not and if you're really just deluding yourself. So then the group turns round and says 'but we could show you the way...'

Cue people falling over themselves to get in with them. It's the possibility of validation with the most uncompromising. After all if they decide you get to call yourself a Witch then you must be, right?

Like you've probably guessed, I don't buy that only through training with certain peeps that you can activate your Witch powers or whatever. Good luck to those groups and I'm sure some people do find that it's the path for them and that they gain a lot of satisfaction from it. You are what you are and you'll walk the path you're meant to. So what if you don't do things the same as others? If whatever you're doing works then what's the problem? I think that's a sentiment the original people that were called Witches by their communities would have understood.

Oh dear, I think I've gone off on one a bit...

I don’t think you’ve gone off track at all enswathe, you raise several points that are all to do with the subject of the essay, including the groups around it.

If you don’t mind, I personally would like to start at the beginning of the essay and work through it point by point to cover each point as it enters the text. A boring way of doing it, especially when some of the points will appear to be totally self-explanatory, and such may be the case, but it will allow for the removal of the obvious parts and leave the parts that may be contentious or contain differing meanings to different people.

Below is the first few sentences from the essay, which I have taken from the site concerned.

Regarding copy right issues: I have informed the site owners that has the essay, that I will be copying the essay in sections, for the exorcise of dissecting the content matter on this board. It has been pointed out to me, that the essay is copy protected, but no action will be considered, or taken in regard to the exorcise undertaken here.

“The main question asked about the subject is ”what is the red thread in witchcraft?”
This question is one I deal with in one of three ways. Sometimes I will ignore the question, or perhaps be glib in my reply. Occasionally I may be irritated by the person who asks, and tell them to think before they ask such a foolish question.

If a person were present for all three responses to the question, and if they cared to think about the way in which I dealt with the answers, they may pick up on the point that the last reply would be the one which is of most use.

The reason for this use is simple. Most people look to learn about witchcraft; be it to practice, to hold knowledge, or to feed their ego, the reasons go on and on. For the most part, such reasoning is of little importance to the subject of the Red Thread itself. The main key is that they, for the most part, ignore the root of witchcraft, that root is of course “Witch”, be it an individual, family, group or race.

These paragraphs brings one of your points forward enswathe, that of using the word “Witch” without a letter used in the typical language format of today

Observation of the text:

The essay sets the stage of a person conversing to someone that is listening to them as a junior, or less knowing, or confused on the subject matter about to be talked about. The person talking gives me the impression of being fed up with the misunderstandings applied to what they understand and how they understand it. The first of the statements within the essay that point to (the) witch being separate or different or apart form everyone else is made clearly in the last line. A point not clearly made is that the separation of (the) witch concept is not definitive. The use of the word “group” seems to be out of context to the other three words used.
I have the opinion that the essay is constructed in this manner, with the intension of giving a a person that is eaves dropping on the conversation or instruction being giving to the junior the ability to fully understand the basic subject matter. The eavesdropping probably being the importance of the essay and not the junior.

Additional thought on the points so far covered would be appreciated.

woodman

Despite what might be thought,I actually find your reflection very sensible and to the point.But like others I share the problem of the content of that essay.It is basically nonsense.There are also the issues surrounding who Sara Hewitt actually is.I think we all know where the name was taken from.

The name is Elswyth, Woodcrowman

I just think the tone of the essay is typical of the arrogance found in these groups. I suppose if you talk down to people and in barely comprehensible circles it's easier to convince people that you actually are party to some form of secret knowledge.

I think the tone is deliberate to make it sound as though they are tired of talking about it. However I wonder how much nicer their tone would be if people just weren't bloody interested?

Hear Hear.Lets talk about Magic!

Well there's plenty of threads for it!

I think we're supposed to keep this one for discussion of Sara Hewitt's essay.

Ok but its been demolished everywhere,its a load of misinformed twaddle with intent to provoke response.Which it has.Job done,no-one is interested so lets move on!

Certainly, got any topics you want to start?

So was the essay written in such a style as to possibly spark an awakening in the eavesdropper?

I can only give my interpretation on it, which is "only" that, and possibly not their intension. Basing it on a method of getting information across to those that are not supposed to be interested for whatever reason. As an example of this I remember a corporal in the army who earned the reputation of being a shit to every recruit that came through his troop. Every soldier hated him to start with, it was only when you started to see him deliberately speaking with the other N.C.O's within the earshot of his trainees that you understood what he was trying to do. Giving advance warning of surprise inspections, or whats required in exams the following day.

To link it to the overall context of the essay it could be for that reason, you suggest Deadwing.

Sorry for spelling you name incorrectly, elswyth, it is interesting how getting the name correct is important to the one that uses it. I'll try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

woodman

Look.Do you think we are stupid here?The thread had died and you had to join under a new name yesterday of Deadwing in order to resurrect it.We have been lenient but if you continue to antagonise we will example this on our front page.Sorry Mods but enough is enough.

It seems that this topic is incapable of being discussed in an unemotional and rational manner.

I'm therefore locking it until and unless someone gives a bloody good reason for re-opening.

Further to various representations it has been decided to re-open this thread.

However. It will be rigorously moderated and attempts to drag it off topic by insulting comments, flaming and trolling will not be tolerated.

Let's see if we can behave like grown-ups and discuss this in a rational manner.

I was passing and noticed you are re-opening this thread.In my opinion this will not benefit anyone.In recognising peoples rights to participate in this particular debate,I cannot however remain silent whilst others are drawn into a constructed attempt to mislead.Therefore I offer advance notice that I will contest the essay fully.

Open debate and honesty are always, in my view, useful and good things, especially on a forum like UKP which prides itself on its providing a forum for all voices.

Debate and contest away, but remember, attempts to drag the thread off topic, attempts to flame, or to insult, will be strictly dealt with.

This goes for everyone participating in the thread.

Thats what I am hoping as I will expect the person who originated the essay to tell us all how this conclusion was arrived at,what sources it takes from and moreso how its claims has escaped the attention of all Anthropologists,Historians and previous research into early civilisation.After speaking with several long standing members of the witch community,it seems clear the essays claims of 'Races of witches','Red Threads','and other pre-historical origins have escaped them too.
I have also checked with linguistics and an expert in number/letter symbolism regarding any esoteric meaning of the name used for the essays author.I am satisfied no meaning other than its secular usage is contained within.To continue debating a possibility of such is therefore now quite silly,in my opinion.

Wotan, you'll surely, as a scholar, appreciate that simply because you have reached such a conclusion that does not necessarily imply that others have also. Other members may not have had the opportunity to carry out the research you have and therefore should be afforded the opportunity to discuss the subject and reach their own conclusions.

Hence the re-opening of the thread.

If you have reached your conclusion and are satisfied with that then I'm sure you will be happy to allow others to discuss and decide for themselves.

Yes of course.My concern is further reaction from those who claim the essay(including its supposed author)has been taken from,and is a misrepresentation of their own material.However,if others wish to discuss it,fine,though I suggest far more interesting posts here such as the current one on sleep remedies are of greater benefit.Im having trouble sleeping so my mind is deviously active