Clearwell caves got me thinking today. They had some lovely displays, and a lot of reindeer.

I remember something posted in the thread a while back about the link between Santa and Shamanism. It was something to do with when male and female reindeer she their antlers, meaning (if true) that all of Santa's reindeer would have to be female to still have their antlers over the Christmas period.

I then got thinking about the names, such as Donna and Blitzen (Thunder & Lightning) and the strong significance of female shamans in such cold and blustery areas of the world (namely the same areas which have a strong affinity with Fly Agaric, which was the other Santa issue explored).

It made me laugh last night when watching the Hogfather and Death's granddaughter coming to the realisation that the Hogfather started out as an animal sacrifice to make the sun rise and now gives out presents

I started to wonder, given that shamans of those areas were big on wearing animal skins: deer hides, reindeer skins, bear skins etc, whether the reindeer were once upon a time shamanic personifications/female shamans.

Then, it equally seems likely that they were invented from some connection with muses:

Vixen/Cupid - Erato
Dancer/Prancer - Terpsichore
Comet - Urania

Although apparently the names come from a poem written in 1823, so probably just indicative of the time.

But it did make me think about the symbolism again, especially all that flying

I found this quite interesting. Especially how Rudolph grew out of corporate advertising a little like Santa

And it's interesting how three very German named reindeer survived the cultural clash of two world wars without a renaming.

So then I got thinking, if you want to show a connection between ancient religions and the whole imagery of Christmas, why not check out the guy who invented reindeer: Clement Clarke Moore. And well..."professor of Oriental and Greek literature"...a Christian theologist and a linguist..."Biblical Hebrew scholar and Professor of Classics at General Theological Seminary"...

A very well read man no doubt, but did he really invent the reindeer? All by himself? Hmmm. I wonder.

Lead me to an interesting article here though.

So, still no nearer an answer there as to whether the imagery of Christmas is shamanic, but rekindled the curiosity

Can’t help wondering whether the names of the reindeer have some equivalent in Hebrew or some link. Doesn’t look like it at all but clever men, especially linguists, tend to like to play with things like that….

Marion x

there's a good overview of the amanita/santa thing in Letcher's 'shroom' (reviewed in book section). haven't got it to hand right now though and cant remember which way he falls on the issue- probably 'its all hokum' (the book is a little ..'dry/academic' but worth reading). the first half covers amanita the second psilocybe:)


LUMI
amanita is orrible

Complete article is on the BBC web site here.

What I've always wondered is, who first discovered that drinking reindeer urine gave them a high?

Andy

Who ever first drunk the reindeer urine perhaps?

I've been under the impression for years that it was the women who used to eat the agaric to absorb some of the toxins and then the men drink the women's urine. Anyone know if that's right too?

Hi, as I understand it the Santa thing started in Lapland, home of the Sami tribe of Reindeer herders.
I also thought all Reindeer had Antlers, not just the Males or Females.
The Reindeer are not fed the Fly Algaric, they naturally seek it out and eat it, often digging down feet through the snow.
The Shaman (male or female) of the Tribe then drank the Reindeer urine and had a Shamanic Experience often involving flying on a Reindeer.
The tribe would then drink the Shamans urine and have a slightly more filtered version of the Shamans experience.
The Santa suit, is possibly based on the Fly Algaric originally, rather than the Coke thing.

All reindeer have antlers which are renewed annually at different periods of the year. In the herds of the Sami the adult males lose their antlers after the autumn rut. The females retain their antlers till early summer.

Santa lives in Lapland and all his reindeer have antlers.

So Rudolph is a ladee !



dav

Oh, that would explain it! Whatever sex Rudolph is they never turn up at mine come Xmas! I guess I must be too naughty!

He's the little boy that Santa Claus forgot,
And goodness knows, he didn't want a lot.


He sent a note to Santa
For some soldiers and a drum,
It broke his little heart
When he found Santa hadn't come.

Arragggh,

are you, Nobby Nobbs?

I've been told that the traditional red, fur trimmed, santa suit actually comes from a freshly skinned reindeer pelt, turned inside out so that the fur is on the inside for warmth and the outside is still red with blood and the fur can be seen sticking out at the edges.