Well, my dilemma is this : My daughter (who's just gone 10, btw) has been interested in heathenry for quite some time.

A while ago, I bought her a kid's version of the Norse myths, which she loves, then she was interested in runes, so I helped her to learn to write them.

She hasn't really mentioned it much of late, until now. Today she asked me if she can "have a table to worship Odin and Thor".
It then dawned on me how little I actually know about heathenry!

If you've read some of my other posts, you'll know that I don't believe in deities myself and I don't follow the heathen path, so can I have some advice please?

i) Do heathens use altars/shrines to worship their gods and goddesses????

ii)If they do, what do they use put on these altars/shrines????

iii) If not, how do they worship their gods/goddesses????

Also, I had been finding her bits of information on anglo-saxon gods (Woden, Thunor etc), but she seems more interested in the Norse pantheon.

Another question : Do you think she's too young to actually decide she wants to follow a certain path? Should I wait and see how she feels when she's a bit older???
(Not sure how she'd take this mind!! )

HELP!!!!!!

Hi Dark rose and congratulations to having a mindstrong and perceptive daughter!

I do not worship the old norse gods, (although maybe I should, being scandinavian ) so I can´t really give any advice other than : let her rule. Personally, I think that everyone is in title to worship in her/his own manner. If she wants a alter, help her set one up!
And no, 10 years is not too young imo. Maybe (probably) she will change her path as she gets older but if she wants Tor now, well why not? That´s my opinion anyway, for what it´s worth!

Blessings and good luck to both her and you
Deerheart

hmm thats an interesting one. Now, i am a firm believer in 'do what feels right for you'. As far as i believe, there is no right or wrong way to honour your gods.

i know that doesnt answer your question, but i do think there are lots of things you can do for her 'pagan spirit' to grow and develop.

I dont think there is an age at which you are too young, because there are things that for me are the building blocks and foundations of my belief, which started far back into my childhood.

I also beleive that being a heathen, or even a pagan of any flavour, involves doing stuff, rather than sitting about. so...

take her on walks.. get to know the land around you, the places she likes, the places she doesnt like. get her to recognise how she feels about these places.. get to know the wights of the land around you

find out about your family tree maybe, see if there is someone in your history who she feels close too. also think on your extended family, not necessarily tied by blood, but tied by spirit. this is learning about your heritage, your past, your kin. also are there any people who have passed on who she feels close too? for me, Elinor of Aquitaine, the 'diggers' of 1649, and my grandmother amongst others i respect and honour their lives. Of course, they dont have to be dead to be important to her!

get to know your housewights! for me, pracitcally, its about doing stuff every day, rather than a big worshipping ritual. i leave out food and drink for them, so is she is dead set on having an alter, then maybe she could use it for honouring the housewights in this way.

i dont know if this will help DarkRose, or if any other heathen types will agree with me. But for me i prefer the little things, rather than the big shiny ritual.

I agree with Deerheart - congratulations on your independent daughter.

The only comment Iwould have, if she wants an altar, is to encourage her to talk to the gods and feel comfortable rather than feel she needs specific rituals, let her develop her own and put on the altar things that she feels should be there. I believe that however we worship the gods will be listening, after all they love attention!

And exactly what Icefire says too!!

BB

Hi Dark Rose:

I can't help you specifically with your queries about Heathenry, however I agree with Deerheart that if you daughter is old enough to articulate her desires on how she wishes to honour her gods, then I think she's old enough to do so.

My son is 12 and has had a Buddist shrine for about a year now, which is just a collection of his Budda's, some photos of our passed over loved ones, and some flowers / shells which he changes at intervals.

I think go with you daughter adn help her aquire what she wants on her tspecial table.

Q

Great replies - thanks!



Isn't she just?!?!
She's not shy about saying how much she dislikes Barbie, Bratz or anything girlie! She has always preferred wooden swords, bow and arrows, pirate ships, castles, dinosaurs - well, you get the picture!

You know, it didn't even occur to me to actually ask her what she wants on it!
I guess I just panicked cos I didn't know what to do!

Anyway, she wants runes and Thor's hammer (she's got a necklace with one on). The person she feels most close to, apart from me and my husband, is my dad, who passed away nearly 5 years ago. So, we could include a photo of him on there

As for places, she seems to like beaches most, which we don't get to very often, living quite far inland!
Although, we do go on quite a few walks - the local park, woods etc when we can and she's just as happy there.

She loved the leaving food for the house wights idea!
I'm not sure how to get to know the wights of the land though - Is there a certain way of doing this??? (Sorry, I just have no experience of this! )

It's often a longer process, unless you find one really interested. It's similar to leaving food for the housewights, but it would also involve simply sitting somewhere, getting a feel for the area. In all sorts of times and circumstances. Getting to know the history of the place. That sort of thing.

As to your original question: this heathen certainly has an altar, and he has lots of stuff on it! Then again, my altar is very personal, so not at all representative for heathenry. A few examples:

- Images of relevant god/desses
- Fetishes (or, separate items combined into one to capture the essence of a god/dess or spirit)
- Candles in various colours, dedicated to various god/desses
- a blessing bowl, to leave offerings in
- a drinking horn
- certain items that used to belong to family members who have died (that picture of your father would be very fitting indeed)
- things that I picked up in particular places that act as reminders or focus points (like Nilfisk the Viking Duck )

The placing on the altar has meaning in itself, but that's a whole different story.

Sounds to me like that gal is a Heathen thro n thro !


Try finding an old Thorn, Ash or Oak tree in the woods/forest and get to know and feel the Area and if you feel comfortable with the tree/place spend about 20 mins there meditating on the area, at your next visit make an offering of milk or honey to the Tree and wights.
Hope this helps
Wassail!
wolvie

Um, Heathen here. Firstly just to say that there is more than one kind of heathen, and what I am about to suggest may not be followed by all Heathens.

I do not see an altar ( or Harrow )as essential. I can worship my Gods anywhere. Having said that even outside of ritual (and thats a whole other can of worms) a shrine of some sort to honour your ancestors is a good start. My general concept of the gods is that we came from them so in one way the Gods are our original ancestors.

A drinking horn is good but do you want your 10 year old supping on mead???

The Norse and Saxon pantheons are essentially the same, mainly it is names which have been changed. Thor is so similar to Thunar that they are essentially the same. She is perhaps a little young to read the Eddas but that it the way forward if you wish to learn about the Heathen Deities.

Runes are a potent tool. As well as being used for divination they are a VERY powerful magical system. It is entirely up to you if you feel your 10 year old is mature enough for them. It is advised that you make, carve and colour your own runes. But runes can be bought and then kept with you or under your pillow as you sleep so you become attuned to them. Failing that you could cut a thick piece of card into 24 and draw the runes on those. I would argue that this will be more likely to give you a good working set than a pretty bought set. I woulod definately say your 10 year old is too young to carve wooden ones with a chisel or stanley knife!!! As for books on runes, I can't suggest any for a 10 year old. Though I personally would advise against Ralph blums ' Book of Runes' I can PM you a list of basic meanings suitable for a child to start with if you want.

A blessing bowl is a lovely idea. I tend to use one as a temporary place to put things I am later going to take outside as an offering.

Thors hammer or Mjolnir is worn both as a sign of troth, or faith in the Norse Gods and as a protective talisman.

Again, wonderful suggestions, thank you both!







Yes, that's very helpful, thanks

There was an old oak tree I was fond of in the local woods but they 'replaced' it with something resembling a bandstand - not sure why!
Oh well, I'll just have to find another one

Maybe not!



Erm, yes, quite. I think she's happy enough with the Norse myths for now - but it's certainly something to bear in mind when she's older



Yes please, if it's no trouble - that would be very useful!
Funnily enough, When she said she wanted runes on there, I suggested making some out of card - great minds, eh?



Ah, yes that is a good idea!



Thanks, I'll tell her. At the time, she just seemed to choose it instinctively - can't remember where we were now!

Heathen here too, i think if she wants an 'altar' then maybe she could set aside a special shelf in her room with things on it that she finds special to her. all Heathens do different things. i do not own a mead horn neither do i own any sharp pointy weapons. i do honour house and land wights and this can be done very easily. i remember as a child at about 4/5 leaving specially picked leaves and mud pies out on a plate for a special very old gnome in my grandmothers garden ! now a days i realise that mud pies and leaves were probably not something they were very pleased with but i still on occasions sprinkle the ground with some nice nuts, seeds and meat and pour some wine on the ground, though i dont see this as a ritual and i dont do any other type of rituals.

yes cardboard runes are a good idea. and there is nothing to say that they were in any way a divinatory tool just that they had protection powers and used as a form of writing.

if she reads a lot then that is great. there is a great kids version of Beowulf which she woud probably love. 2 versions ive found for you here and here

also does she have this book? Children of Odin would probably just the right reading age for her.


edited to say, if she wishes to change her path in th future then there is no problem with that. its not lke there is a Heathen rite or initiation to become one, its more like you wake up one day and say 'i'm Heathen' . and if she does change her path then she will have learned and have an understanding and respect for other Heathens she may come across in the future.

ooh and just thought instead of cardboard, she could paint runes with acrylic paint on to pebbles.


good website here for runes. Oswald the rune maker

Yes I was going to add this too! esp if she likes the beach were she can pick her own then she will have a connection to the sea!

North sea if poss !
Wassail!
wolvie

I'd read that runes should be gathered from a beach, during a storm, the more lightning the better, then painted (in red) with rune signs. They are then totally personal to the creator/reader.
I believe this should be the case with any tool used for scrying - apart from a crystal ball. Unless, of course, you'e a lapideptorist!

Aimee : I had Beowulf in mind, but I hadn't seen the Children of Odin one - looks great, thanks!
Another funny thing, she likes collecting stones and pebbles, amongst other things! I dread putting my hand into her pockets sometimes!!

Wolverine : North sea - I'm guessing that's because it gets quite rough??? One of her favourite places is Scarborough, so the next time we're up there, we'll see what we can find

Tas : Sounds dangerous!
Seriously though, thanks for the info!

Most of the Teutonic Folks that arrived here landed on North Sea Coasts

Thats the thing with Heathens. We may all practice slightly differently but there is such a tradition of skaldic kennings that we almost start to think on that level the whole time. The symbolism of getting your pebbles from the north sea is an example.

Since she is ten, if she wants a flame on her table, get a safe, enclosed tea-light lantern.

If she is listening, then the gods will hear her, and she will find her own way.

--

Jez

Lots of good advice here, so there's not much for me to add. The only thing I would say, I wouldn't necessarily assume that she's too young for the Eddas. The Prose Edda is actually pretty accessible (I wasn't much older than your daughter when I first read it) and she doesn't need to read it right through in one sitting - she can dip in and out and read bits. She may also be interested in reading some of the history of Heathens in the UK and Northern Europe.

Oops just saw that you like Scarborough. I don't know if you know Whitby (probably if you go to Scarborough) but that's also worth a visit if you for beachcombing purposes. Robin Hoods' Bay is very good too - lots of fossils if she's into that sort of thing.

Just to say Dark Rose, that I think it's wonderful how your daughter has been drawn to a path which , certainly at the moment, appeals to her, and seems to speak to her on a personal level.
One's path will always beckon, whatever faith. She may change later, or not. Regardless, you are encouraging her to explore safely and she will be led by the Elder Ones of her calling.
I just wish I had had more enlightened adults around me when I was a child. Instead it was all hellfire and damnation. Whenever I tried to ask about the voices and the things I saw/imagined I got a swift skelp, accompanied by a tsk and a lecture about "not taking the Lord's word in vain" etc. (Sad but true.) Then I would be given something practical to do, like brushing the carpet, or doing dishes. The devil makes work for idle hands, dontcha know! I felt so lonely and confused!
Well done, from one mum to another!

Thanks Tas!

I wish I'd more enlightened parents too! I think that's why I've brought her up like I have.
I think my family had an inkling - and my nan kept giving me bibles!!
Another thing is, I don't talk down to her - something else I had as a child

It wasn't long after she'd started school when she asked if she'd been christened because the other kids had been asking each other, as they do
So, I explained that she hadn't and why (because I would like her to be able to choose herself when she's old enough), and then I explained about the different types of pagan - she just seemed instantly drawn to heathenry!

I would just like to thank everyone for their advice and support on this matter, you've all been a tremendous help!
Thank you!

One more thing - though your daughter is too young to join, if you want to get more information then you might consider joining ukheathenry, which is owned by Jenny Blain, and which would give you access to a lot more heathens than post here. The membership is around 250, I think, on ukh.

Then if your daughter has questions, you could post them for her, and have access to all that experience, to the files, and to the other resources as you find you need them.

--

If you have difficulty finding it, then pm me, or email Jenny (if you google Jenny Blain, you will find all her details, as she is an openly pagan author and academic).

--

Jez

It's ok, I've found it!

Thanks Jez, great idea!

Yep, I most certainly did!

Nah, I'm still here stuck on the mainland!

The Prose Eddas are very dry, especially once you get past the actual stories at the beginning and into the textbook stage. Personally, I'd suggest reading the Poetic Eddas with her.

If you dig around enough (unless they've dropped off the bottom), you may be able to find my retellings of The Lay Of Thrym (which you'll need to censor a bit!) and The Journey To Utgard. Should make a couple of good bedtime stories, or stuff she can read herself.

As for an altar, I don't have one. If I want to talk to the gods or wights, I'll find myself a quiet place, sit down, calm right down, call out and wait for them to turn up.

They usually do eventually.

While people are plugging websites, it might be worth you having a look at Wyrd Ways (see my sig). There's a few more Heathens on there, and it does have a different membership to both here and UKHeathenry, so that'll offer you more perspectives with which to help your daughter out.

T

The Lay Of Thrym, A retelling, by Thunarr

also found

The Journey To Utgard, Another retelling, by Thunarr

Kevin Crossley Holland's retelling of the Norse myths is usually recommended by most Heathens as he sticks closely to the original texts but he's easy to read.

I've got a spare copy in paperback version, if you want one. Excellent condition. If you PM me your address and her name, I'll pop it in the post to her.

Like many Heathens, it's difficult to find a flat surface in my house that isn't some kind of harrow (altar)! I tend to offer drink, so the most usual thing is a goblet, bowl or fancy glass that has caught the fancy of one of my gods. It doesn't have to be a special alcohol - from a child I expect they'd find other things acceptable. Whatever's around your house. She can ask them and see if they'll tell her. A bowl can be used for food offerings. Again, it's a matter of asking them, or giving something from your own meal.

Same with housewights, though most of those seem to like chocolate, cake and cream.

It's also possible to have a garden harrow. Mine's a dish full of medium sized stones - which would give her somewhere to put larger stones. It's also a place to put a tea light in a jamjar if she wants to burn a light to one of the gods.

Heathens all tend to disagree on specific religious dates, though I suspect we'll all agree on celebrating Winternights, though when differs. I celebrate it when the weather turns sharp, around November or the end of October. Mother's Night (the first night of the 12 days of Yule) is when we remember female ancestors, and some of us celebrate the spring equinox (which is just coming up!) in honour of the Saxon goddess Hretha, who rejoices in the ending of winter and the turning of the year towards the golden days of summer. You'll find other dates suggested on various Heathen sites, but the basic means of celebration is a drink offering to the god (and what's wrong with lemonade for a child? Though probably make an effort to buy some proper, cloudy lemonade, or make some), and some food.

When my son was younger he had an altar in his room, with a bowl that he made himself in a pottery class at school. He also had a few things that mattered to him, including a dragon and a few fossils. He doesn't like any kind of fizzy or sweet drink so liquid offerings were water - he always said water is one of the most important resources on the planet and fundamental to life, so you can't offer anything more precious - not quite in those words though - I'm paraphasing here! . He also made little biscuits and sweets. These days it's more likely to be lager (mostly German or Belgian- he's still fussy about drink), and the bowl has been upgraded to rather nice one he found in Lincoln. He still has the dragon. I always half expect to see his Wei or X Box on there sometime....

The thing to remember about Heathenism is that isn't not a single path, it's not limited to recons. It does in fact refer to a great many things, so you will probably be able to find a tradition that has the pieces you are looking for. To me what makes one heathen is a) the gods followed and their attitude.

So if your daughter wants a shrine, then go for it As for what to put on it, that's really up to her. There are tradition things you can do, like specific woods/leaves (Yew for Odin, Oak for Thor) colors, objects, etc. But I figure that if the gods want something specific they will let the individual know

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Skegga