I recently saw on the news that one of the first pagan soldiers died in Iraq.
The U.S. government after fighting against it for a long time finally put a pentacle on his gravestone.
This sparked a question in my head.
where do pagan soldiers go when they die?
All I know is about Valhalla and summerland.
I have a family line that goes all the way up to the vikings;
i know that they thought when they die they go to valhalla.
but do you have to actually believe that you are going there to go there?
or if you're a pagan soldier do you automatically go there?
like i believe im going if i die in the army.
and i want a traditional viking funeral too.
I just want to know if you think you are going, will you go?
or do you you automatically go to warrior heaven.
Full Version: Pagan Soldiers
As you say, the most well know aspect of the Heathen conception of the afterlife is Valhalla, [The Hall of the Slain] where the Valkyries take those slain warriors whom they have chosen for Odin.
These warriors, the Einherjar, spend their days fighting to the death all day then every evening coming back to life to feast and drink till morning till the time comes to fight their last great battle at Ragnarok, the end of the world.
Odin however, ever the pragmatist will willing accept those who die outside battle if they are courageous and noble of spirit.
Odin does not have it all his own way, for half those slain in battle belong to Freyja.
They dwell in Her Hall, Sessrumnir [Many Seats], and as she is the Goddess of fertility perhaps their lives there are altogether more delightful then the shenanigans going on over in Valhalla.
However it appears that Freyja would also welcome those who died outside battle, as indicated by the case of a woman, Thorgerda,in Egil's saga. She threatens to commit suicide after her brother's death, saying: "I shall not eat until I sup with Freyja". So she expected, even though she was not a warrior, to dwell thereafter in Freyja's hall.
Those not chosen by Odin or Freyja live in Hel, which was simply the dwelling place of the dead. It was not a place of punishment; in fact, gold and mead are in plentiful supply.
Some of the dead are believed to reside in spirit in their Howe or burial mound and there are stories of the living attempting to communicate with their dead forefathers by sitting out on the family howe.
I do not think it is a matter of belief on the part of the dying Warrior or Shield Maiden The truth is that s/he is needed to fight the last great battle against those who would destroy the universe. Until that time comes s/he is taken care of by Odin or if one of the lucky ones by Freya
Fortified Midgard, lies encircles by the ravening Worm.
Over its icy bastions faces of giant and troll
Look in, ready to invade it. The Wolf, admittedly, is bound;
But the bond will break, the Beast run free. The weary gods,
Scarred with old wounds, the one-eyed Odin,
Tyr who has lost a hand,
Will limp to their stations for the last defence. Make it your hope
To be counted worthy on that day to stand beside them;
(C.S Lewis)
dav
These warriors, the Einherjar, spend their days fighting to the death all day then every evening coming back to life to feast and drink till morning till the time comes to fight their last great battle at Ragnarok, the end of the world.
Odin however, ever the pragmatist will willing accept those who die outside battle if they are courageous and noble of spirit.
Odin does not have it all his own way, for half those slain in battle belong to Freyja.
They dwell in Her Hall, Sessrumnir [Many Seats], and as she is the Goddess of fertility perhaps their lives there are altogether more delightful then the shenanigans going on over in Valhalla.
However it appears that Freyja would also welcome those who died outside battle, as indicated by the case of a woman, Thorgerda,in Egil's saga. She threatens to commit suicide after her brother's death, saying: "I shall not eat until I sup with Freyja". So she expected, even though she was not a warrior, to dwell thereafter in Freyja's hall.
Those not chosen by Odin or Freyja live in Hel, which was simply the dwelling place of the dead. It was not a place of punishment; in fact, gold and mead are in plentiful supply.
Some of the dead are believed to reside in spirit in their Howe or burial mound and there are stories of the living attempting to communicate with their dead forefathers by sitting out on the family howe.
I do not think it is a matter of belief on the part of the dying Warrior or Shield Maiden The truth is that s/he is needed to fight the last great battle against those who would destroy the universe. Until that time comes s/he is taken care of by Odin or if one of the lucky ones by Freya
Fortified Midgard, lies encircles by the ravening Worm.
Over its icy bastions faces of giant and troll
Look in, ready to invade it. The Wolf, admittedly, is bound;
But the bond will break, the Beast run free. The weary gods,
Scarred with old wounds, the one-eyed Odin,
Tyr who has lost a hand,
Will limp to their stations for the last defence. Make it your hope
To be counted worthy on that day to stand beside them;
(C.S Lewis)
dav
i tend to believe that all people will go to where ever they think they should go to, be they Christian, Pagan of any path, or Jedi ! i think its all the same place but can be whatever you want it to be.
QUOTE(artyfahrtyAimee @ Jan 23 2007, 06:41 PM)
i tend to believe that all people will go to where ever they think they should go to, be they Christian, Pagan of any path, or Jedi ! i think its all the same place but can be whatever you want it to be.
That sounds about right. And Terry Pratchett's Death (Mort) would agree wholeheartedly. If he had one!
My own belief as an atheist pagan, is that we all end up fertilizing the plants.
We come from the earth, we live on the earth, we absorb energy from the earth and at the end, no matter what our beliefs may have been, we go back to the earth.
A simple matter of natural recycling.
We come from the earth, we live on the earth, we absorb energy from the earth and at the end, no matter what our beliefs may have been, we go back to the earth.
A simple matter of natural recycling.
QUOTE(pasher @ Jan 23 2007, 09:17 PM)
My own belief as an atheist pagan, is that we all end up fertilizing the plants
I'm kind of with mc, but the bits that dont fertilize the plants will be looking for the door out of the pub with 400 doors (so i'll probably fall out..) lol
it's nice to dream but we are but a speck of dust in a huge universe of energy
Yup, as already stated, if they're of the Heathen persuasion, and died in battle, they'll most likely end up in either Valhalla or Sessrumnir. Other than that, it depends on their beliefs.
T
T
Just pure curiosity from someone who doesnt know.
What about Elysium?
What about Elysium?
Definitely Valhalla! At least most veterans and Foreign Legion types I know seem to think so. As for Elysium, its actually not far from here, near a city called Tübingen. 
QUOTE(Quasizoid @ Mar 13 2007, 06:07 PM)
Definitely Valhalla! At least most veterans and Foreign Legion types I know seem to think so. As for Elysium, its actually not far from here, near a city called Tübingen.
har de har har har
Well, the best of the best (both in military and civilian life) went to Elysium, most folk went to live in Hades, and the apostates of the religio romana were sent to Tarsus to be tormented. It's a kind of 3-tier pre-Christian idea - Heaven, Limbo, and Hell.
im going to go for that reincarnation one myself, valhalla. not to sure, the real vikings may kick us out for being weak
Has anyoen seen the film, "What dreams may Come?" Well, it kinda draws on teh idea that we see what ever we believe when we die. The main charachter dies and end up in on of his wifes beautiful paintings. he see his dead dog and places he loved when he was young etc. His wife however, so caught up in despair, commits suicide adn ends up ina dark solitary world of her own making. He sets out to save her.its a truly beutiful and moving film..(sighs) anyhow, my pojt being, this is what I TOO believe to a degree. I believe when i die, I hsall become part of the spirits of nature and be in a beautiful woodland with ani,ans and trees and stram etc and be among my ancestors who have gone before me. I dont beleive in a dark "hell" so to speak, but I DO believe that those who have committec truly awful things in their life do NOT get what they want upon death and may be -reborn until they attone for their acts. Other than that, I belive they could also be in some state of limbo.I really need to think on this more. I come previously from a christina background and its hard to mentally shift alot of those ideas, but Im REALLY trying! lol
AS for pagan soldiers, yes, I think they too will go where they believe, as they have died in service of theior country and a higher cause.
tree.goes off to have a good think..........................
AS for pagan soldiers, yes, I think they too will go where they believe, as they have died in service of theior country and a higher cause.
tree.goes off to have a good think..........................
QUOTE(treehugger @ Mar 14 2007, 11:39 AM)
Has anyoen seen the film, "What dreams may Come?" Well, it kinda draws on teh idea that we see what ever we believe when we die. The main charachter dies and end up in on of his wifes beautiful paintings. he see his dead dog and places he loved when he was young etc. His wife however, so caught up in despair, commits suicide adn ends up ina dark solitary world of her own making. He sets out to save her.its a truly beutiful and moving film..(sighs) anyhow, my pojt being, this is what I TOO believe to a degree. I believe when i die, I hsall become part of the spirits of nature and be in a beautiful woodland with ani,ans and trees and stram etc and be among my ancestors who have gone before me. I dont beleive in a dark "hell" so to speak, but I DO believe that those who have committec truly awful things in their life do NOT get what they want upon death and may be -reborn until they attone for their acts. Other than that, I belive they could also be in some state of limbo.I really need to think on this more. I come previously from a christina background and its hard to mentally shift alot of those ideas, but Im REALLY trying! lol
AS for pagan soldiers, yes, I think they too will go where they believe, as they have died in service of theior country and a higher cause.
tree.goes off to have a good think..........................
AS for pagan soldiers, yes, I think they too will go where they believe, as they have died in service of theior country and a higher cause.
tree.goes off to have a good think..........................
Ahhh yes, that was a truly beautiful film, and despite my lack of Christian dogma, can indeed identify with what the movie conveys. It is a shamanic belief that we begin as well as end as the stuff of dreams and visions, with which Nature experiments in "physical reality", so it really is just a matter of perspective.
A while back I translated a humourous anecdote a German friend told me. It goes along similar lines. I posted this in UKP's "Under the Oak Tree..." under the title of
"Afterlife Holiday Resort". I'm sure you'd get as much of laugh out of it like I did.
Well would a pagan soldier really go to Valhalla? I thought it was just people who believed in the Asatru-Gods that went there? Which would be, Vikings mainly I suppose. Which would mean that not ALL pagan soldiers would go to Valhalla, but just the believers in Asatru.
Or, well I haven't read the Edda for awhile so i might be wrong here, but that's what I recall, I'll look it up again to make sure though.
Or, well I haven't read the Edda for awhile so i might be wrong here, but that's what I recall, I'll look it up again to make sure though.
Not all heathen soldiers went to Valhalla. Odin only chose half of the slain. Freyja chose the other half and they went and dwelt in her hall (whose name I have forgotten).
QUOTE(Tas Mania @ Jan 23 2007, 09:04 PM)
QUOTE(artyfahrtyAimee @ Jan 23 2007, 06:41 PM)
i tend to believe that all people will go to where ever they think they should go to, be they Christian, Pagan of any path, or Jedi ! i think its all the same place but can be whatever you want it to be.
That sounds about right. And Terry Pratchett's Death (Mort) would agree wholeheartedly. If he had one!
Indeed...for that Death would need GLANDS!!!
QUOTE(pasher @ Jan 23 2007, 10:17 PM)
My own belief as an atheist pagan, is that we all end up fertilizing the plants.
We come from the earth, we live on the earth, we absorb energy from the earth and at the end, no matter what our beliefs may have been, we go back to the earth.
A simple matter of natural recycling.
We come from the earth, we live on the earth, we absorb energy from the earth and at the end, no matter what our beliefs may have been, we go back to the earth.
A simple matter of natural recycling.
I totally agree with this POV - and I like the idea of being a part of something else - like we don't really end after all.
fizzy
I believe the fleshy bits go back to the earth and yep I am happy to be fertiliser.
I also believe that the consiousness that is me, soul for better want of a word will go someplace else.
I liked the idea in the lovely bones that we all have our own little place in the afterlife and these can interact with other's places so we can still see the people that have gone before us.
I also believe that some people come back, if they chose too. I have the distinct impression I have been here before.
What always worries me is that if I come back how will I be with the family I love in this life.... hmm I guess I will find out when i get there.
As for soldiers I think they will go where they want to be. Which always worries me that suicide bombers will also go where they want... somehow that doesn't seem fair. I guess I dont have all my answers worked out, still thinking about it!
temps
I also believe that the consiousness that is me, soul for better want of a word will go someplace else.
I liked the idea in the lovely bones that we all have our own little place in the afterlife and these can interact with other's places so we can still see the people that have gone before us.
I also believe that some people come back, if they chose too. I have the distinct impression I have been here before.
What always worries me is that if I come back how will I be with the family I love in this life.... hmm I guess I will find out when i get there.
As for soldiers I think they will go where they want to be. Which always worries me that suicide bombers will also go where they want... somehow that doesn't seem fair. I guess I dont have all my answers worked out, still thinking about it!
temps
I think I'd much prefer Freyja's hall. But, hey - that's one hel of a Lady! I love it when she comes to visit. But talk about dominant...
Umm I've always fancied Sessrumnir. I don't think you'd ever be bored there. My cat likes the sound of it as well....
Frey
Frey
Mmmmm Freya !!! 
Add my vote to go to Sessrumnir too!!!
Heathen warriors go where they want to go!
I have seen the film Dreams May Come - truely inspired and very applicable to paganism.
There is another strong tradition in Heathenry that you share your afterlife with your family or friends in an underground ale hall. There are a number of references in the Eddas to brave warriors dying and going to Hel - probably linked to the same place. So this belief was as strong if not stronger than the idea of living in Valhall or Folkvang.
There are also the options of re-incarnation and living as a ghost (helpful or harmful - the choice is yours!) in Heathenry.
Living with Freya does have its perks though!
Skegga
I have seen the film Dreams May Come - truely inspired and very applicable to paganism.
There is another strong tradition in Heathenry that you share your afterlife with your family or friends in an underground ale hall. There are a number of references in the Eddas to brave warriors dying and going to Hel - probably linked to the same place. So this belief was as strong if not stronger than the idea of living in Valhall or Folkvang.
There are also the options of re-incarnation and living as a ghost (helpful or harmful - the choice is yours!) in Heathenry.
Living with Freya does have its perks though!
Skegga
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