I am still quite new to Witchcraft and enjoy it immensely but I still have a niggle about Deities. I read that you are not supposed to mix pantheons but I am constantly drawn to Hecate and Herne The Hunter . I have tried to substitute Pan but Herne is the One that calls to me. Does anyone else have this problem and if so how do you get your head round it?
Hope someone can help
Blessings
Kitchenwitch

Hi Kitchenwitch

The Gods can be real buggers sometimes - not appearing when you need them to, sending others, and just generally doing whatever they want!

My main pantheon is Roman (and it's only the female deities who appear from there really), but the god who visits is Herne. And I honestly have no idea why. I have no connection to any of the other Celtic or Saxon gods, just him.

I'm a firm believer in the Gods choosing you rather than the other way around.

The "Thou Shalt Not Mix Your Deities" thing is not a real commandment as such, it's more a "only do this if you're sure and if you're prepared for the outcome"

Unless you're very sure then don't try and invoke them both in the same rite, that kind of thing.

Like inviting a Muslim and a Jew to dinner and then discussing religion... You might find they're very tolerant and able to have an intelligent discussion, or you could find yourself acting as referee while they attempt to smash each other (and your house) up.

But honouring them separately, you're pretty safe with that, and there's nothing to say you can't and oughtn't to.

If Hecate and Herne are speaking to you, then my view is you ought to pay attention.

I agree, the deities do have a habit of choosing you, not you choosing the my main goddess is Tiamat, but also drawn to and call upon Egyptian deities.

When i first came to paganism many moons ago I was told the same.

Witchcraft/ paganism is an individual belief/religion and your relationship with your Gods is personal , there is no in between 'clergy' that will take your message to the Gods for you.

If Herne and Hecate are with you then thats just how it is.
I'd look at the nature of the Gods you are using in ritual are they prone to be jealous? if so this may back fire. Though I see no problem with working with Herne and Hecate together.
Then again this is just my opinion you are better off taking chances and finding out for yourself.

As you say you are new to your chosen Craft, I suggest you find out as much as possible about each, not just what has been written in books etc., but also try and find out if there are any places sacred to Them. If so, go there, and meditate - BUT DON'T try and "call them/summon them" in these spots - you could get a lot more than you bargained for! Go back home with your impressions and write down any thoughts/dreams you may have, however odd, as these often are very revealing and informative.

Having done all those things (and they will take you quite some time and effort) you will be in a position to approach each wisely and learn from them from a sound knowledge base.

As Pomona and others noted - we don't always have a say in the matter! Good luck -

A good chunk of the gods I worship are either Irish, Welsh, Norse or Saxon, then theres the Etruscan, Phoniceon, Babylonian and Hindi gods that have some how crept in! Then theres the gods who dont have or belong to any cultures or Pantheons at all!

My only problem is trying to fit them all in!
Im also of the belief the gods pick you!
If your not sure dont invoke!
Always do the research!

I'm going to go with everyone else. Mix and match all you want. I lover Herne too, and work with him alongside Selene Goddess of the Moon who is Roman. As has been said over and over the Gods choose you. To me it's more when you mix clashing God energies your going to have problems. Like a goddess of love and a Goddess of war are going to create a weird inbalance in the circle. But again personal opinion.

Blessed Be
Rich
x

Err there are a few goddesses of war who are also goddesses of love. Thus it is quite easy to invoke one. Take Freya for example.

for me the gods are aspects of a greater whole (tao,ain etc).. (i think i posted a similar reply recently to another questions- but cant find the thread- anyone?)

so , like Rich, i have no probs with invoking god/desses from different trads.

i'd say that if you're drawn to a particular god/dess you should look into their background etc and work from there. dont worry about the 'duality'/'must have a god AND a goddess'.. just work with that god for a while.

Crowley gave an interesting method of invocation..you should select a god ..any god.. then invoke it constantly, via manta, art, ritual etc etc till you're SURE that you've succeded. then STOP.. and choose another god and repeat. the object of this method being , i think(!?), to show the magickian that the 'gods'/angels/djin/wights etc etc are all aspects of one force/entity..


LUMI
(welcome to vague town)

Hi, that's Gods for you! They don't always stay in neat pantheons however, much it might make life more convenient for us! My pantheon is the Norse Gods, however, Herne has a habit of putting in an appearance. Like Pomona, I have no idea why - he just does. I know a few other people who get visits from Herne, although they have no apparent links with with any other Celtic Gods. Maybe he's just a friendly kind of God .
I'd go with the flow and not worry about it. In my experience you don't choose the Gods - they choose you.

i blame Robin of Sherwood

LUMI
(anybody read 'in search of herne the hunter'-by eric fitch?)

Hear Hear

Here a hint ok'...be very careful with trying to mix witchcraft an the divine. No matter who knock at your spiritual door. The two don't go together naturally hand in hand.
Tis best to keep your magik separate from deity...or all sort o unexpected shit hits the fan

I am only one witch an this is just my learning's...Do your own magiks without the assistance o them gods, or its just Russian roulette as to how it turns out.

Them gods have their own agenda, an it ain't always the same as yours.

Rain

Well sorry but Traditional Paganism and Witchcraft is all about Honouring the God/esses and gaining their wisdom and aid if need be IMHO.
The term Witch has Anglo/Saxon roots and this stems from the practice of Seidr which incorparates the use of spells etc as well as Shamanistic practice, just take Freyja's teachings to Wodan as an example of this! and it wasnt just for the Gods!

In Frith
wolvie

Rain raises an interesting point though..

is magick dependent on 'the Gods'? or is it something we can 'do ' ourselves..

personally i'd agree somewhat with Rain.. 'the gods' needn't be called for ever magickal working.

hmmm perhaps this should be in another thread?

LUMI

This is interesting. I tend to do my own magic etc, but I ask my gods for guidance when pondering other matters or when Im not sure what sort of magic to use? Does that make sense? I tend to see them as teachers and guides rather than having them do my work for me?
Incidentally, my gods are Herne (he does get around doesn't he!) and Vila. OK, so both links to woodland and animals, but as others have said, it was more a case of them choosing me than the other way around.

Tree x

Tis true its best not to call on singular gods or goddess to assist in any magic, we can do that ourselves without their assistance.

Hmmm...

I do get where Rain's coming from on this, and I'd wholeheartedly agree that the Gods will only help you if it fits in with their agenda or if you've appealed sufficiently to them, but (and here's where I struggle to explain with a head-cold!) - how do you separate the Gods from the land? In the same way, how do you separate US from the Gods?

The way I see it is that the land emanates energy and that's all around us. And through us and through everything is a web, for want of a better word. A connection that links us all and makes it impossible to extricate one element (a God, other being, human, animal, plant, etc) without it having some effect on some other element.

So.... if you deliberately bypass the Gods and go straight to the source, the Land, could you not argue that the Land itself communicates to the Gods? Basically you pluck the string and the vibration travels and in its travels is it not likely to trip off something else - like a God??

*sigh*

I don't think I've worded this very well, I'm going to go and have a think about how to put it in a more comprehensible way!

Yeah, the Michael Praed Robin, though, not the new one who is just not right.

This post were originaly in the tittle addressed to witches...not pagans...so Wolverine you show me where it presume to mention that witchcraft is all about honouring the gods/ess.

Traditional pagans often got shafted too by said powers that be....traditional witches thought for themselves however...had the common sence to recognise the difference between their spirituality an their magik.

Witchcraft has jack shit all to do with gods an goddess's. Gods an goddess's are about spirituality, not witchcraft.

A witch may recognise the gods an goddess, but that dont mean they are beholden to them in regards to there own magiks. Nor do them said deity have to have a say in the magiks, unless the witch openly invite them or they interfere off their own backs. Recognising deity has nothing to do with witchcraft. witchcraft is the craft o the witch, its heka...not divine magik.
I have tried both...an as i said, my own learnings have taught me that unless you want assistance with agenda, then you ere on the safe side an dont include deity into you magiks. The Seidre as far as i am aware used the gods for guidence , to fortell what action to take. As with all advice you can take it or leave it ..guidence aint magik though.

Do what you want though.

I offer up a word o caution, take it or leave it too.

Pomona...the land is an energy in her own right...not a goddess,... though there are goddess's o the land

Rain

Well that was interesting! Thank you so much to everyone who gave their views.
Rain confused me a little bit though and made me look at what witchcraft is to me.
Like Pomona, I see the world as energy. We work with energy in witchcraft. We get our energy from the Earth, the Sun, the Elements, the Trees etc. We gather/build up this energy in the circle and then release it to a point of focus eg to heal/help someone, or change a situation, or bring something to us, or take something away from us. We work with The God/Goddess to ensure that we harm no one by our intentions - no matter how well meant. All Enery IS from the Source/God/Goddess. Everything that IS is The Source. How can I seperate anything I do from the Source? Have I misunderstood what it is I am doing? Am I more confused than I thought I was? If that's possible!!

I became a witch long before I became Pagan and had nothing to do with any Gods, so in my experience this is obviously a personal preference whether you use them in Ritual. I personally rarely use the Gods when doing magic but honour them as part of my path, if that makes sense?
I see my path as a learning one, In witchcraft you and you alone are responsible for your actions, you have to learn by lifes experiences good or bad, magical or mundane.
We can all give advice and tip but ultimately we can never have the same experiences with the Gods.

Hi Kitchen Witch

I think it has all been said but basically your path is yours. Let it guide you. Just look where you are going!!!! February edition of my mag covers Goddesses and Gods if you are interested.

Rainbow Blessings

TW

[quote=Rain,Jan 24 2007, 10:21 PM]
[quote=wolverine,Jan 24 2007, 01:25 AM][quote=Rain,Jan 23 2007, 10:20 PM]Here a hint ok'...be very careful with trying to mix witchcraft an the divine. No matter who knock at your spiritual door.  The two don't go together naturally hand in hand.
Tis best to keep your magik separate from deity...or all sort o unexpected shit hits the fan 

I am only one witch an this is just my learning's...Do your own magiks without the assistance o them gods, or its just Russian roulette as to how it turns out.

Them gods have their own agenda, an it ain't always the same as yours.

Rain

[/quote]

Well sorry but Traditional Paganism and Witchcraft is all about Honouring the God/esses and gaining their wisdom and aid if need be IMHO.
The term Witch has Anglo/Saxon roots and this stems from the practice of Seidr which incorporates the use of spells etc as well as Shamanistic practice, just take Freyja's teachings to Wodan as an example of this! and it wasnt just for the Gods!

In Frith
wolvie

[/quote]

This post were originaly in the tittle addressed to witches...not pagans...so Wolverine you show me where it presume to mention that witchcraft is all about honouring the gods/ess.

Traditional pagans often got shafted too by said powers that be....traditional witches thought for themselves however...had the common sence to recognise the difference between their spirituality an their magik.

Witchcraft has jack shit all to do with gods an goddess's. Gods an goddess's are about spirituality, not witchcraft.

A witch may recognise the gods an goddess, but that dont mean they are beholden to them in regards to there own magiks. Nor do them said deity have to have a say in the magiks, unless the witch openly invite them or they interfere off their own backs. Recognising deity has nothing to do with witchcraft. witchcraft is the craft o the witch, its heka...not divine magik.
I have tried both...an as i said, my own learnings have taught me that unless you want assistance with agenda, then you ere on the safe side an dont include deity into you magiks. The Seidre as far as i am aware used the gods for guidence , to fortell what action to take. As with all advice you can take it or leave it ..guidence aint magik though.

Do what you want though.

I offer up a word o caution, take it or leave it too.

Pomona...the land is an energy in her own right...not a goddess,... though there are goddess's o the land

Rain

[/quote


Well thanks for the advice but I personaly prefer to work with the God/esses of my faith and I live, eat and breath it !

In Frith
wolverine.

Again it comes down to personal choice.
There is nothing written in stone about how us witches should work (and if there was a stone im sure we would find some other use for it like clobbering other witches )
It comes down to different paths and we all live, eat and breathe them whatever bloody name we need to give it

Well, but if some people routinely work with deities when they do magic, and feel they gain support from the process, how is it that Rain has experienced problems by involving deities? Is it the personality of the worker, the intent, the type of magic involved, the particular deities concerned?

To me this seems like quite an important issue if there are such things as magic and deities and they have an effect upon each other - it ought to be possible to get advice on it. I would be deeply iinterested to know from Rain the circumstances and the consequences of the workings which prompted her to give this caution.

It's true that I addressed my question to witches rather than pagans but that was because I thought I understood that all witches were pagan but not all pagans were witches. I apologise for this misunderstanding
I obviously still have an awful lot to learn and I am grateful to all of you for your thoughts and advice.
Blessed Be

I have to say I am 100% behind Rain on this. I see two different things. One is invokation when you ask a God or Goddess to help you. Two is magic which you do with your own energy to your own ends. Both are ways of shaping energy, but the energy comes from different places and to my mind and in my experience Magic is a more relyable method than invokation.

You don't have to do magic to honour the Gods and Godesses. You dont have to honour the Gods and Godesses to do magic. If you feel like it you can do both together, but they are not the same thing.

Hiya kitchenwitch



Its an iffy area that..lol... i have a few friends that are witches that have no spiritual beliefs. They wouldn't classify themselves as Pagans at all, though they are very obviously witches. An like you say there are plenty o pagans that ain't witches too.

Half the struggle o this thread comes from the fact that different witches from different pagan paths have their own path related way o doing magiks. In a general pagan forum there ain't ever gonna be an agreement on it..lol

As your original post were about using deity from two separate paths then im assuming that your path is quite eclectic at the moment, an you are following your own path.

My post were a warning that things might not always turn out as you hope with the said powers that be.



Hiya Julai ...its a orrible tale...an not one i am particularly proud o, but i learn me lesson the hard way. I aint one to give out caution for somin i aint experienced afor, believe me.

I think you slightly got wrong end o the stick in regards to ' attitude towards magik or personality o the worker' or maybe in a round about way that is right.

I have always held my deity in deep respect, an i came to using magik through them.
When a witch has a deity that works a magikal path an you dedicate yourself to that deity, then as a votary o that deity you take upon yourself to learn their ways an what it mean to be a witch o that Deity's path.
If that path involve magik, then its up to you to learn the damn magiks init!

Starting off with a deity o a magikal path is like being a wee baby...at first you are dependant on your mother, mothers milk, mothers protection an mothers advice, but there come a time that mother have to shove the young out the nest an let them sink or swim...fend for themselves. No more hanging on mothers skirt strings. Any decent mother takes pride at raising their young to be independent o them.

I will tell ya somin for nothing...if they gonna give you the motherly shove, they don't half choose the most opportune moment

Now the embarrassing bit...erk

There were me..all smug an tucked up under the wings o me goddess, quite happy an comforted in evoking them in magik, everything going swimmingly, an then the shit hit the fan!

It were no normal shit,, this were life or death shit....i needed to do pull off some damn good mojo or there were a life at stake. A life that were as dear to me as me own.

I set to work...i invoked on the deity responsible for such life or death business an ended up all bar having a fist fight with said deity. My respectful ritual that i had become accustomed to, felt dark this time, it got physical an a few other things happened. What ever i were left with no doubt that i had been told to "sod off"...if i wanted it doing then to "Do it myself".

Were a nasty shock but being a stubborn ol witch i dug me heels in an worked me way through it on me own.
Make me cringe when i think back to it...at the end o the day it were no more than i dedicated meself to do in the first place... i dedicated meself to learn the magiks. If you take up with a magikal deity its the bloody least you can do init.
I had learned the magiks, i had just got to used to the comfort o evoking my deity in ritual..an that wasn't the deal i agreed too when i dedicated meself to that deity in the first place...my bad for hanging on to the skirt string to long.

I did the magiks, worked real good too, just me on me tod, no deity, no assistance ,,,having faith in your deity is one thing, but more importantly is having faith to let go an have faith in your own unassisted magiks. To have faith in your ability to be a witch in your own right. Only then can you be truly effective.

Is it not truly the responsibility o every witch to be a witch in their own right? To stand on their own two feet as a witch an do the magiks themselves!.
What use are we to the powers that be if we leave ourselves at their mercy always? How easy is it to blame a failed magik task to not being the will o the gods, when in effect we really didn't do it properly an just use our failures as scape goats o their will.

I might have learned the hard way... but i learnt.
I use every lesson they ever taught me, i pull out all the stops. Now i can call meself a witch o my deity, a witch o my path with the knowing that i can do what it takes to make ends meet , with or without their assistance....an thats what i dedicated meself to do in the first place.

Were a hard lesson..but i got there eventually. Be your own witch, do your own magiks or be at the mercy o the powers that be.

Hope that explain thing a bit better Julai.

Rain

Well I dont do magic to honour my Deities, I just have faith in them and my Ancestors to aid me when crafting.
In Frith
wolverine

Tis a shame we aint all as good as you init eh

Rain

Well my craft path was a reverse to what happened to you Rain. I tried to work a crafting in a life threatening situation alone without aid and this had a devastating effect on me!
I guess we are all different and experience things in a way that fate has set us !

In Frith
wolverine

Now there's an interesting thing

Buggers aint they.,,,see.

Rain

Thanks Rain and Wolverine. I think I've arrived at a place where I need to take stock of what I believe and what I hope to do! All your comments were very helpful and yours Rain were a bit scary,so I think I need to go back to the books to clarify and simplify. If I am learning anything about witchcraft and paganism it's that no two solitaries or covens are the same and that we each need to cut our own path through the forest Yours was definately a cautionary tale Rain. Thankyou for sharing it.
Blessed be

Thanks Rain. Brilliantly set forth! I am getting an idea now of different capabilities for different paths. Perhaps sometimes help from deities is appropriate, and sometimes not, and in fact the only way to find out is to try it and take note of what happens.

My tuppence worth!.I happen to look at it a bit like the old "free will " idea.
Yes, there are my deities, yes im learning witchraft as a solitayr witch, that is my path. I give thanks I ask for guidance, i meditate etc.
yes, they MAY intervene at imes, but how i conduct myself is my own free will, i have been given that choice as have we all.
I agree with Rains idea about the apron strings thing. I do believe we reacha point where we ask for less and give a bit more. BUt it all comes down to free will.
They are there to help, to guide, to teach, and sometimes to incoke, but we have our won free will and we rise or fall by that.
Oh, this isn tcoming out as eloquently as i intended!!! hope it makes some kind of sense.
Was thinking about the Christian idea that God is around us and intervenes at times, but basically we are at our own mercy. Now do you see where im going????

tree x

Thanks tree

Yes I think I understand that and I think its time I got out of the babywalker! Lol!
Thanks to all of you. I learned a lot here.
Blessings
Kate

Oh, my. What a range of experiences. What can I add?

When I started off I worked by myself. Then, gradually, I began to work with my gods. That partly came from spending more time with them and partly from doing a lot less magic. And the magic I did with them being a lot more effective.

That doesn't mean I work with the same ones every time. For one thing, at least one is a complete bugger and wants me to go a bit further than I might feel I want to go on every occasion. Not that that detracts from the effectivity (in fact, as a friend recently said when we were discussing helping someone else who had asked for our help and a certain god offered - if this works, it will be FAST, that being the nature of that god).

For another, I'm in the extremely embarassing position of being a hard polytheist (i.e. every god is particular and distinct and NOT an aspect or archetype who takes differene tnames in different cultures) who was 'claimed' by one god about 18 months ago who said to me, in no uncertain terms "actually, I've been around long enough and in enough places that I have quite a few names". And yes <groan> that includes Herne. So we agreed on a name I could call him as I refused point blank to use the 'normal' ones. But he's so easy going he's willing to work with all the other gods I work with - and especially with the tricky sod. In fact, they seem to work well together and have prompted me to do something when asked when I might not have done anything.

So I guess, in the end, it comes down to the individual: your relationship with your gods (or without them) and where you are in practising magic. It seems to me there are no rights or wrongs. I prefer to work with wyrd - with the way, if you like, the energy flows. And, using whatever way we care to express it, I have met pagans of many faiths who work the same way. Some with gods, some without. Working against wyrd (and, for me, my gods tell me, in part, whether I'm trying to do that) can be an uphill struggle. Much better, IME, 'to go with the flow'. However you conceptualise that to yourself.

And to be true to yourself. So, if some god leans over your shoulder and suggests "Hey, wouldn't it be a lot more effective if you did it my way?" and you think: "Er...no thanks", then go with the gut reaction.

I've been around long enough and in enough places that I have quite a few names". And yes <groan> that includes Herne. So we agreed on a name I could call him as I refused point blank to use the 'normal' ones. But he's so easy going he's willing to work with all the other gods I work with - and especially with the tricky sod. In fact, they seem to work well together


Thanks for that Moonhunter! I found your experience interesting and yes I will go with how it feels. My personal practice of the Craft is uncomplicated so I just work with the two gods and I feel much better about that now. Thanks again

Can I throw a spanner, if only to see where it flies back out? :-)

At present (all things being on the move) I see all the many gods as different facets of the same one male god and one female goddess, so one cannot invoke a particular god/dess of a particular pantheon as they all point to the same Divine.

It is however possible to meditate upon one character of a particular god or goddess while seeking help from the Divine God or Goddess, to help us concentrate on a particular aspect of their natures; bearing in mind that their higher wisdom may mean that a completely or subtley different nature may show forth, according to what they know we need rather than what we think we would like. Of course this is only my personal opinion, which develops as I grow.

And what is all this invoking anyway? Sounds a bit like prodding a caged animal for a response. You may learn to your dismay that Gods may not wish to be invoked and would quite like to be asked respectfully, even worshipped a bit!

I think my view is a bit like the Hindu faith, where there are many gods/goddesses, but only one Krishna; many windows looking into one scene. I like this because I can leave it to the infinite wisdom of god and goddess how they can best help me in my request, rather than invoking who I feel is right for the job.

I would rather have my divine Father and Mother envelope me with their infinite wisdom and grant me what is exactly right for me in relation to the best interests of the rest of the world, than be responsible for a complete muck-up because I insisted on being in the driver's seat - a god-tamer even!

<sits back to watch the fur fly>

No problem with that - each to their own, even though I don't subscribe to that viewpoint (and neither, from all the evidence, did our pagan ancestors )




I think you're maybe misunderstanding the "invoking". It's not done in a peremptorial manner, it's always done, IME, in a very respectful, inviting way - offering things you either believe or know the deity would like, and using language which is either respectful or affectionate. And it would depend on the deity. Some may be/are fairly chilled, others are very formal - if you'd seen Moonhunter and me addressing our gods, she the Heathen ones, me the Roman ones, you'd see a world of difference between how we approach them which just emphasises the difference in how each deity is and can be approached.



Hmmmm... I mean no offence when I say this, but that sounds a very Christian way of thinking - this belief that you are a passive child content to allow yourself to be led by an all-knowing parent. I assume then you won't be performing any magick since that would be you presuming to know what is best in any situation?

Personally I prefer to take some control over my own destiny and do what I can in the world to help others - you going to tell me you've never donated to something like cancer research, where scientists aren't content to leave the big stuff to an all-powerful god(s) who "know best"?

I also have Selene as a Goddess, and feel very drawn to Herne, too, though nothing much has come from that yet, but I can wait

I have no problem with wanting my God(s) to nurture and look out for me. After all, why would we want to worship them if they did not feel benevolent to us in at least some way?


Ah, thanks Pamona - I think you have unlocked something for me there, so this is not God(s) giving to us according to our need so much as Humans and God(s) forging a positive destiny together ... ... that's awesome! (and not quite so Christian).

It's a nice thought, but not all of the gods are kindly. And most of us find it's not easy/possible to attract the attention of one who doesn't want to know, whereas other gods demand attention because they want a relationship. In the end, it's down to you whether to enter that relationship, or not, depending on what you know, or find out, about that god.

Some of the more demanding, and least kindly, can offer some of the most rewarding experiences.

Oh, the other thing is that those of us who deal with more than one god tend not to worship any of them - we negotiate with them. In the Heathen religion (pre-Christian England/Scandinavia/Germany etc) we tend to take the attitude of 'a gift for a gift' - and, even then, we'll negotiate the price. Either way i.e. whether it's us or them who are asking for something.

All depending I think, on whether you view the gods from a polytheistic or duotheistic approach; whether they are co-creators of our universe or just other beings within it.

As a duotheist, I see both Lord and Lady as benevolent, or at least progressive, and now I see my relationship with them as working together towards a common destiny rather than being parasitic upon either.

Replies on this thread have helped me to better realise where I stand in all of this so thank you all. Each to their own and each to their path. Good luck on yours and we'll meet where we join.

Not sure I'd agree with that Earthborn - believing in a Mother and Father God doesn't necessarily mean that you believe them to be "nicer" than believing in many gods. If you believe in everything being bound up in two gods, one male, one female, then you must surely allow for every aspect of nature to be bound in them too - and that doesn't always mean nice. Every creature is capable of brutality, cruelty, murder, cannibalism, etc etc - I don't think you can set the gods (no matter how many) as apart from that. Even the Christians don't believe their god to be sweetness and light - it's just not possible and to attempt to deny a fullness of character and attributes to your god is to deny part of your self. IMO.

I don't agree, but heh, we don't have to do we?

Not at all - but I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning behind your viewpoint

No offence intended, Earthborn, but if you see all gods and goddesses as aspect of the one god and goddess, and you see both of those as universally benevolent, how do you reconcile the aspects that aren't? After all, there are many gods and goddesses out there who simply are not benevolent. How do they fit into your cosmology?

Just to let you know I am busy helping to look for a missing dog at the moment who has been out for about a month now so actually don't care about religious viewpoints at the moment. Religious debate being the luxury of people with time on their hands.

To kind of answer your questions above, I believe that the Lord and Lady will help me in staving off the cold nights, wind and rain and give me insight through what I know as a gut feeling to help find where he is and how best to help him to give himself up.

Negative aspects come from the inevitable diversity that comes from an ever changing and exploring universe, whereas I view the gods as all knowing and very much in charge of the long term destiny of the universe whatever that is and are wise and benevolent enough to allow us to make mistakes.

I dont believe gods have negative aspects such as murder, hatred etc as they are enlightened, though they may be angry, protective maybe even secretive if it is in our interests not to know something - yet. It is creation that is capable of making mistakes or seeking wisdom before making a decision or taking an action - all we need to do is ask from the Lord and Lady who are only too happy to help, rather than bargain with some god who may or may not give a toss.

Hope this lays my cards on the table. If I go silent after this, I havent gone anywhere - apart from out there looking for a dog. See ya!