Help - Search - Member List - Calendar
Full Version: Leprechauns Fairies And The Tuath De Dannan
UK Pagan, The Valley > The Circle (all pagans together) > General Paganism
ArdRi79
LEPRECHAUNS FAIRIES AND THE TUATH DE DANNAN

Hoigh its me, youre friendly neighbourhood Irishman. Im here today to talk to you kids about the evils of taking Irish folktales as fact. I know its hard to resist when jenny from the block does it on t.v. but it can mess you up BAD.

This is Bru na Boinne home of the Goddess Boann also known as Newgrange. It is also known as Sidhe Oenghus home of Boanns son (Barry white voice here) the God of love Oenghus (oOH yeeah).

user posted image

This is a Sidhe mound, home to the Daoine Sidhe also known as the Tuath de Dannan the Irish Gods.

QUOTE
'Then send for the Dagdae, and let him come and speak with his son,' said Fergne. The Dagdae was sent for and came, asking 'Why have I been summoned?' 'To advise your son,' said Bóand. 'It is right that you help him, for his death would be a pity. Love in absence has overcome him, and no help for it has been found.' 'Why tell me?' asked the Dagdae. 'My knowledge is no greater than yours.' 'Indeed it is,' said Fergne, 'for you are king of the Síde of Eriu. Send messengers to Bodb, for he is king of the Síde of Mumu, and his knowledge spreads throughout Eriu.'(1)


To those of you familiar with jenny from the blocks take on Irish fairies this will come as a shock BUT... ....The Daoine Sidhe are not fairies... but GODs (Cheesey dramatic music dan dan daaaannnn)

How did this occur I hear you cry! using the popular slang of the day. Well... it has its beginnings in the Irishest of Fairies, the wee green fellah, the leprechuan. The first story containing the leprechaun is Echtra Fergus maic Leiti (2) dating from the 8th century. The king falls asleep by a large body of water and wakes up being carried into the lake by a group of luchoirpain - Lu - little choirp - body an - diminutive. He wakes us and asks the luchoirpan to grant him sovereignty over all irelands waters, which they grant. how can fairies grant him power over all the waters... IMO... they couldnt only the Highest of Goddesses would be sovereign over the waters. I put it down to the kind of Christian editing we see in simaler legends of the time like Imram Bran mac Febal. Editing out the Gods and adding in christian elements.

This is the first mention of the leprechaun and its substituted for a God. Its in the Metrichal dindshenchas (3) from the 12th century we first see the Tuath de Dannan addressed as a whole as lupracans.

QUOTE
when did Temair become Temair?
2  5] Was it under Partholan of the battles?
or at the first conquest by Cesair?
or under Nemed of the fresh valour?
or under Cigal of the knocking knees?
3  Was it under the Firbolgs of the boats?
10] or from the line of the Lupracans?
tell which conquest of these it was
from which the name Temair was set on Temair?


From this we see the daoine sidhe as leprechauns, the wee fellah with a crock of gold, but where are the fairies! I hear ye ask.. ...begorrah.

Well see it goes like this: in the 1600s the leprechaun was adopted by English speakers and put into plays like Middleton and Dekker's The Honest Whore 1604 where the lupracan beguiles the unwitting. In the wikipedia entry (4) The word færie came to English from Old French fée, had the meaning "enchanter." Thus féerie meant a "state of fée" or "a state of enchantment." and the wee lads became known as Irish fairies. But fairies arent leprechauns I hear you shreek over the noise you young folk today call music, well thats true to be sure but twasnt til the 19th century poem in English called the FairyShoemaker by William Allinghams (5) that the leprechaun had any individual personality at all. Mr Allingham positions the lad on his own attributing him a mischeivious nature where before he was only part of a general group.

So ye see the Tuath de Dannan arent leprechauns and they arent fairies the wee fellah in his green suit would be awfull grumpy to see you mistaking him for some dirty oul God and sure the Gods themselves wouldnt want to be havin a diminutive English name put on them by invaders and priests sure would they.

begorrah. remember kids stay in school and if your lost... sure ask a police man. Im off for a nip from Jim O Rielys whiskey still bye now.

(YAAAAAAAAAAAY)

THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT COURTESY OF STERIOTYPE MOTION PICTURES

1) The dream of Aengus
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seabhacaille/C...rua/mc0008.html
2)Echtra Fergusa maic Leiti
http://www.hastings.edu/academic/english/K...s_mac_Leti.html
3) The Metrichal Dindshenchas
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T106500A/index.html
4) Wiki entry for fairy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy
5) The FairyShoemaker by William Allinghams
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16839/16839...FAIRY_SHOEMAKER
Pomona
blink.gif

Okaaaaayyyyy

QUOTE
So ye see the Tuath de Dannan arent leprechauns and they arent fairies the wee fellah in his green suit would be awfull grumpy to see you mistaking him for some dirty oul God and sure the Gods themselves wouldnt want to be havin a diminutive English name put on them by invaders and priests sure would they.


I have to say I never thought they were all the same thing. Is that belief something you've encountered?

Quasizoid
Ahhh! at last! Many thanks for that, I've been surfing my brains out for years looking for insider information on the oldest Irish legends. smile.gif
Ozz
blink.gif

I've never known the Irish Wee Folk and the Tuatha de Danaan be confused before ....

Good post tho'... prolly helpful for those wanting a leg-up on Irish myth smile.gif
Heron
I always thought they were gods.

The (christianised) version I was told as a child is that the Tuatha DeDanaan WERE gods, but that they only paved the way for the One True God ™ (the one from the middle eastern stable), and when he arrived, or rather his followers did, in Ireland, They politely handed over power without any fuss...

never quite rang true, that one...

H
andy9xyz
QUOTE
how can fairies grant him power over all the waters...

But isn't that the kind of thing that fairies might CLAIM to be able to do out of mischief?
ArdRi79
QUOTE(Pomona @ Feb 14 2007, 10:21 AM)
I have to say I never thought they were all the same thing.  Is that belief something you've encountered?
*



oh absolutely, just google daoine sidhe... or pick up a berresford Ellis book and youll find s pseudo- etymology linking Lugh to leprechauns blink.gif

QUOTE(Quasizoid @ Feb 14 2007, 10:24 AM)
Ahhh! at last!  Many thanks for that, I've been surfing my brains out for years looking for insider information on the oldest Irish legends. smile.gif
*



cool.gif its my pleasure Quasizoid, if you want to know something specific give me a shout, I like to keep my researching arm in shape and Ill see what I can dig up for ye.


QUOTE(andy9xyz @ Feb 14 2007, 03:23 PM)
But isn't that the kind of thing that fairies might CLAIM to be able to do out of mischief?
*



Yeah it sounds like descriptions Ive heard of them from people, but King fergus does go diving in every lake and river in Ireland and he can breath under water etc... so in the story someone granted him the power.

Besides those kind of fairies dont exist in the Irish/Gaelic Legends (folklore maybe but thats a different kettle of fish) that Im aware of and the luchoirpan in Echtra fergusa are more plainly a christian insert then I mentioned. I left out that luchoirp isnt strictly old Irish its a latin load word, (OI) Choirp is borrowed from (L) Corpus. Even the name is christian in origion.
Quasizoid
QUOTE(ArdRi79 @ Feb 15 2007, 02:30 AM)
cool.gif its my pleasure Quasizoid, if you want to know something specific give me a shout, I like to keep my researching arm in shape and Ill see what I can dig up for ye.


Most kind of you Seamus, you're a dear soul! There is a cycle of legends in Bretagne that speak of a people of Dana, although their accounts of this invasion are far less mythical. These essentially describe how the local tribes were subjected to the "tribute" of building circles and mounds, to such an unreasonable extent that it deprived them of attending to their own essential needs. Of course, rebellion ensued until their subjectors packed it in and left. The megaliths of that period, however, are not to be confused with those of the Carnac-Le Menec area. In Bretonic lore there is also a reference to the invasion as the "Curse of Dana", certainly an indication that they were neither impressed nor made a glorious issue of its departure. My guess is that they inevitably shunned the perpetrators, much as they do today. In much the same way, it would seem such legends in Bretagne managed to survive through sheer language barrier at its own discretion, and still not apt to discuss certain things with "outsiders". Indeed, I can see where this serves as a necessary attitude. wink.gif
evermorelong
Conas taoi?

I read also somewhere the romans refering to the then inhabitants of Ireland circa 100ad as "little green men" because they used green woed and gorilla tactics to repel a full-scale roman invasion!

Slainte
Quasizoid
QUOTE(evermorelong @ Feb 15 2007, 12:08 PM)
Conas taoi?

I read also somewhere the romans refering to the then inhabitants of Ireland circa 100ad as "little green men" because they used green woed and gorilla tactics to repel a full-scale roman invasion!

Slainte
*



Yup, always found this amusing, also their reaction to seeing the Britons painted in blue, gathered atop the cliffs of Dover. What amused me most of all was this habit employed skyclad in battle, with "lewd" symbols painted on their genitals! o_roflmao.gif
ArdRi79
QUOTE(Quasizoid @ Feb 15 2007, 02:38 AM)
Most kind of you Seamus, you're a dear soul!  There is a cycle of legends in Bretagne that speak of a people of Dana, although their accounts of this invasion are far less mythical. These essentially describe how the local tribes were subjected to the "tribute" of building circles and mounds, to such an unreasonable extent that it deprived them of attending to their own essential needs.  Of course, rebellion ensued until their subjectors packed it in and left. The megaliths of that period, however, are not to be confused with those of the Carnac-Le Menec area. In Bretonic lore there is also a reference to the invasion as the "Curse of Dana", certainly an indication that they were neither impressed nor made a glorious issue of its departure. My guess is that they inevitably shunned the perpetrators, much as they do today. In much the same way, it would seem such legends in Bretagne managed to survive through sheer language barrier at its own discretion, and still not apt to discuss certain things with "outsiders".  Indeed, I can see where this serves as a necessary attitude. wink.gif
*



If anything about Gaelic stuff i can help ye I dont know anything about the P-Celtic cultures. The only thing I can tell you about Dana is that the name only exists in Gaelic Legend in the description - Tuath De Dannan. Though it is pretty cool how archaeology sometimes lines up with legend.
QUOTE(evermorelong @ Feb 15 2007, 03:08 AM)
Conas taoi?

I read also somewhere the romans refering to the then inhabitants of Ireland circa 100ad as "little green men" because they used green woed and gorilla tactics to repel a full-scale roman invasion!

Slainte
*


laugh.gif I had never heard that Evermorelong, where does it come from...
evermorelong
QUOTE(ArdRi79 @ Feb 15 2007, 04:50 PM)
QUOTE(Quasizoid @ Feb 15 2007, 02:38 AM)
Most kind of you Seamus, you're a dear soul!  There is a cycle of legends in Bretagne that speak of a people of Dana, although their accounts of this invasion are far less mythical. These essentially describe how the local tribes were subjected to the "tribute" of building circles and mounds, to such an unreasonable extent that it deprived them of attending to their own essential needs.  Of course, rebellion ensued until their subjectors packed it in and left. The megaliths of that period, however, are not to be confused with those of the Carnac-Le Menec area. In Bretonic lore there is also a reference to the invasion as the "Curse of Dana", certainly an indication that they were neither impressed nor made a glorious issue of its departure. My guess is that they inevitably shunned the perpetrators, much as they do today. In much the same way, it would seem such legends in Bretagne managed to survive through sheer language barrier at its own discretion, and still not apt to discuss certain things with "outsiders".  Indeed, I can see where this serves as a necessary attitude. wink.gif
*



If anything about Gaelic stuff i can help ye I dont know anything about the P-Celtic cultures. The only thing I can tell you about Dana is that the name only exists in Gaelic Legend in the description - Tuath De Dannan. Though it is pretty cool how archaeology sometimes lines up with legend.
QUOTE(evermorelong @ Feb 15 2007, 03:08 AM)
Conas taoi?

I read also somewhere the romans refering to the then inhabitants of Ireland circa 100ad as "little green men" because they used green woed and gorilla tactics to repel a full-scale roman invasion!

Slainte
*


laugh.gif I had never heard that Evermorelong, where does it come from...
*



Off the top of my head i think it was Tacticus writing about what Agricola saw, but my heart says it was good ole julie C, will endeavour to dig some old notes out on the subject and get back to you.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.