Nearly put this in Moonrising's thread but didn't want to hi-jack it. Although it is a similar subject.
I really can't tell anyone about what I'm doing or how I feel. Most of my friends would disapprove, as would most of my siblings (I have 3), my husband tends to assume everything I say is a joke unless he can see advantage to himself in it, and my parents would a) attempt to de-programme me, attempt to take my daughter from me if and when the time comes for me to separate from my husband, c) disown me. They truly would not want me in their house.
It's all very well to say that my life and actions are no-one else's business but how can I risk losing all those people? I still need to do what I need to do.
Not sure what I'm asking here or whether I expect any response, but I think what I'm saying is: is it possible to live with such a huge secret? Has anyone else been in a similar place? Should we tell lies to keep the peace?
Very confused and insecure Badger
xx

Probably most of us have been where you are just now, with or without the added pain of the relationship being as it is. It is a lot to have to be dealing with at once. I suggest you keep quiet for now, because you sound like the last thing you need i n your life at the moment is added stress.
However - if people truly love you and care about you, they will stand byy ou no matter what. Sounds like you are surounded by CONTROL FREAKS - and need to get as far away as possibe. Not an easy shout. Can you patch up with hubby? If not, maybe a clean start? Have you a pal you can trust to talk to about the marriage situation, even without mentioning the pagan leanings?
Not much advice, and I wish I could wave a magic wand to make it all better. Keep talking with Nature and ask the Old Ones for guidance.
And try and keep your head held high - smiling sweetly (whilst imagining all sorts!) generally helps...

Well, I was in a fairly similar place, although without, thankfully, the children and the ultra-conservative parents.

I think the question is - can you live with yourself ? How big a deal is it for you not to tell others what your beliefs are??

Sometimes you just have to, as I did myself for a long time. The thing I would say is that you may be underestimating your friends and family - honest. When I told my parents, my mum, a devout Christian, was shocked and upset, my dad was more interested than anything else, but they both came round very quickly - because they love me. The chances are your parents love you too - not what your beliefs are. I didn't want to tell my friends but that decision was taken away from me, and, as it turned out, they were at first mildly interested, and then it simply didn't matter - I was still their friend and they were more concerned about how I was doing.

Your husband. Ah. I'm probably not the most unbiased person to speak to in that regard - my ex husband took it very, very badly. BUT - not all husbands are the same, thankfully. I notice though that you're saying that "if and WHEN the time comes to separate" - Badgersmoon - that seems to me that you are more than contemplating splitting from your partner.

Look. At the end of the day your religious persuasions are your own and nobody else's business. So you don't HAVE to stand and proclaim them if you don't want to.

Feel free to PM if you want someone to yak to and sound off on.

Personally, I would never advocate telling lies under any circumstances. Apart from anything else, if you start telling lies, you have got to have a brilliant (almost photographic) memory otherwise you will soon be caught out.
HOWEVER ...... one does not need to always tell the whole RAW truth, there is normally some middle ground which can be put to good use.

Examples:-
If anyone asks about your religion / beliefs.
There are three possible answers:-
1. I am christian. (Lie. They're happy, your not).
2. I am pagan/witch/wiccan. (True. Your happy, they're not)
3. I believe in god. (Middle ground. Your happy with your god, they're happy thinking its theirs).

Relative asks about your husband/partner.
Again there are the three possible answers:-
1. I love him to bits (Lie. They're happy, your not).
2. I cannot stand him near me. (True. Your happy, they're not)
3. He can be a pain at times. (Middle ground. You've given a females standard answer about husbands - so your happy, they're happy ).

Your parents may be opposed to your "strange" (to them as christians) beliefs, but as Pomona says because they are your parents they may be shocked etc., but will come round and be accepting eventually. My mother (a life long christian) hated my being pagan and even worse an atheist, but tollerated it.
If as you say "most of my friends would disapprove" well the simple answer is that most are not friends. Real friends accept you for who YOU ARE not what you believe.
But the bottom line is, do you NEED to tell them or your parents directly about your beliefs.

As everyone here indicates, advocating your beliefs is not so much the problem, rather the oppressive situation your husband evidently has you in. Indeed I can see the situation turning ugly if he sees an advantage in influencing any negative attitude your parents might have towards your beliefs. Thus it would be wise not to express them in the family presence, rather, save it for well after divorce. Your defence at this point needs to focus more on the domestic issues that may come in question. The social services are normally more concerned about the health and welfare of children. If you have been a good and caring mother, the question of belief shouldn't enter into it. That is a personal issue that should really be none of their business. As for someone to discuss Paganism with discretely, we are here for you.

Firstly I bassically agree with Pasher... there are ways of telling truths that are truth and satisfy the questions asked. If you can live with this middle ground it is definitly a way to consider.

For a long time that is what I did with my parents (My Mother is a strong practicing Christian). It allows you to prepare the ground for later deeper truths, test the water and see how bad reactions might be.

At the moment my parents know I am not Christian, but they also know I do believe in the Divine. While not totally happy with that, My mum would dearly like me to come back to the fold and talks happily about my brother going on an Alpha course. They are mostly content that I am happy and apear to be comming to no harm... and to a certian degree that I do belive in something.
I have not yet broached my Pagan / witch beliefs and practices. In part because they have not asked... and my faith is between me and my Gods and in part because I know it would hurt them and I am not convinced that it would be helpful to do that.

As for my Gentleman, he knows that I am a Pagan / Witch, but he has no real interest in religion, faith, belief in god/s and I don't think he really understands what my path is or what it means to me. I get the impression that he feels that it is all some odd game. But this may well be just him protecting himself (manly-like) from his own feelings / beliefs. Although he occasionally snorts and tends to shy away if I start talking Pagan, he does not activly interfear or stop me and most of the time seems to accept his witchy wife.

So yes, after more than 12 years of knowing I am a Pagan, I am still not really out of the broom closit.
The trick is finding the balance in the complexities of your own life and accepting that there are sometimes when... 'to be silent' is the right choice.

As others have commented... who really needs to know what you believe?
As for friends, real friends stick by each other through an aweful lot more than a change of beliefs. And this place is good to vent, discuss and debate in... not quite as good as real life, but a gift our ansestors never had.

Be bright, be bold
Fillionous

For the first two years of me being a witch my wife didn't know, although some of my children did, and it was more a case of not telling my wife rather than lying to her. This all came about because I was open about the first two or three meetings I had with other pagans, and my wife disapproved, so it was easier to say nothing, well they do say ignorance is bliss, dont you believe it. I know I have told this story before, but here is what followed just over four years ago now, basically I had a breakdown, went missing for a few days, and it all came out that I was a witch and pagan. Once out in the open I had my wife, children, sisters and brother all trying to save me!, but I held my ground, and for the first time wore my pentagram all the time. Of course all my family blamed me being a witch and pagan for my breakdown. Now I know that this wasn't an ideal way to come out of the closet, but it's the way it happened. While I was missing my wife had found all my witchy books and tarot cards and if she had her way at the time the books along with my dragon staff would have been destroyed, but again I held my ground. The best thing is though after that very slowly my whole family came to accept who and what I am, and over the intervening years realising I wasn't going to disappear again things have changed. My wife has been into witchy shops with me, made a cover for my staff, pointed me in the way of a mind, body and spirit show, suggested I go to Avebury, and encouraged me to go on a Reiki course. Also these days I dont have to hide my books or my cards, they are lying around all over the place, and I do read my books around my wife, and she is quite happy about it. So I now realise that in the very beginning I should have been open and honest with my wife and family about what I needed to be, and rode out the initial disapproval, because in the end my family do now accept me for who and what I am, and perhaps would have done so a lot earlier if only I had been strong enough to fight the disapproval.

Hmm.... this made me think. Interesting because I feel no need to tell anyone whats going on other than my husband just enough to cover what he sees. I think for me its partly a stepping away from the way things were when I was a Christian- sharing where I was in my faith, my husband giving me advice, church telling me what I needed etc. I don't feel its a secret, I feel its private. I have told my church that I have lost my faith, and my sister too (shes also a Christian). She offered to pray for me when she visited this weekend and I just said no thanks and it was fine. I don't want to be lying or pretending to be something I'm not, but I can see any reason to go announcing it to my mum either . I like having something thats private and just for me for a change!

If they cant let you be you, then feck em off.

I have led my children for 4 years now on me own, i bring them up to be good people who know right from wrong.

There is only one person who saught to criticize my mothering, an i wipe them off me shoe with the one dog poo i missed picking up in the garden ...feckin turd..lol.
An this were another pagan, so don't be fooled by wolves in sheep's clothing.

Being a pagan heart an soul is not a disability, don't let them make you feel disabled. Its a strength, not a weakness.

In the dog world , their aint many that would cross a bitch who circle her pups from a threat.

Low an behold any bugger's nose that poke in, for she will die for them...willingly.

Rain

Interesting thread and interesting thoughts. It got me thinking about how different things seem to be over there with you. It´s never accurred to me before, actually.

Over here, firstly noone would ever ask what religion you belong to, secondly if they did and you said "hedning" eller "asatro" or "goddess" (we don´t have/use the word pagan) you would probably get a smile or a raised eyebrow and responses like "really?" "interesting" or something like that.
I think we are much less christian here, if one can put it like that. You go to church for the rituals, that is the baptise, the wedding, the funeral basically.
My strong impression is that wheather or not you believe in god is not a big issue. There would NEVER be such a question in a job interview (unless you applied for a job within the church) and it is something you don´t ask people. What someone believes or not believes in is something very personal and has little or nothing to do with professional life or what that person can do.

When I read about badgersmoons big secret and not being able to tell any one because of the consequenses, I get really sad. That is awfull! I mean people can be ignorant, prejudice and plain stupid. But disown, take away your child??? How can it be that important what one believes in? Shouldn´t your actions and personal values be grounds for judgement?

Am I naive? Is this something you have experienced? Are britain so extremely christian? It sounds like the worst form of fundamentalism to me! I had no idea there was such a difference. It´s really upsetting!

Badgersmoon, you ask if we should tell lies to keep the peace. I agree with Pasher there. I mean, we all tell lies to keep the peace. The question is for how long can we keep doing it? Sooner or later it will crack and the truth will shine through. It takes a lot of enery keeping it up...! Believe me, I know! And then the surprise to others are maby even greater because of the lies.

Pomona is a wise woman. I agree with everything she says.

Good luck and blessings

deerheart

This is (or should be) the same here. We have a law to protect people from religious discrimination in employment, which includes recruitment.




There is still some religious discrimination within Social Services, though is getting less and less. There are guidelines issued by Councils that should discourage all discrimination on religious grounds. However, Social Service work was often a career of choice by many devout Christians are there can be isolated pockets of prejudice.

Although the courts are also subject to guidelines not to discriminate, judges are (if you'll forgive the pun) a law to themselves. It is also extremely difficult to remove a serving judge in this country, even when they make outrageous judgements.

Very interesting thread.

The thing about it is, that people dont feel that they can come out about what they believe beacuse of WHAT they believe. The pagan community has had a very good job done on it. We dont speak out because we are convinced that people will think we are wacco's. Its not about hurting their feelings or anything else, its because we dont want to be percieved as nutters.

I dont see how we can ever get past this unless we hold up our heads and say I am what I am. If you cant tell your partner what you are then you need to be asking fundamental questions about your relationship, not your faith. Kids will not be "taken" from you unless they can prove you are unfit, yes... they might make your life miserable for a while.. hell it might even be for a very long while, but we do have rights, if we stand up for them and refused to be bullied, they will have to back down in the end.

Dont kid yourself that you can "cover". Dont lie to yourself that everything in the relationship you have is fine and dandy if you cant reveal your soul to the other person you are with. If you find yourself in that position, get out, the other person clearly doesnt value you anyway.. better to cut the ties now.

I thought I'd been very careful at work. Oh yes, after a couple of years of saying nothing I one day made a passing comment to one of my staff. And admitted it to another, both on the same site isolated from others by 40 miles of Wiltshire countryside. I didn't mind it that it spread round the others there, as I got on well with them and we could have a laugh when I put my head in my hands and groaned about the latest management memo and one might ask if I was praying for divine guidance and add, jokingly, oh, but wasn't that the wrong religion?

I'd forgotten how people talk about such things, especially about people they perceive to be senior management (no, I'm not, but they seem to think I am).

So when I took over my current team recently and chatted to each one separately, it was more with amused resignation than horror to hear one tell me I was a pagan, wasn't I? But then, I work for a government Department and our internal guidelines on discrimination of any kind are remarkably well enforced.

Damn. they probably know I'm bisexual, as well. And a naturist. Wonder how they'll work those into a conversation with me?

I work for a Government Dept too so I'd agree about the protection you get - it's a very, very good thing.

It's harder though, unfortunately, to apply that out in the rest of the world away from work where you can't do anything really if the person you live with totally freaks out over finding out about your beliefs.

So I agree with Xalle about having to think very carefully about whether spending your life lying to your partner about your beliefs really says that the relationship is worth it. However, there are ties to other family members that are harder to sever and in many cases people don't WANT to sever them. It's a rare family where there are absolutely NO secrets or confidences, and many of those are in place to protect both sides.

I comepletly agree with everything thats been said so far, Dont lie, dont keep secrets, dont even take the middle ground! Dont even worry about your friends disaproval cause if they are proper mates they should accept you for you, metaphorical warts and all! Your parents should come around eventually afterall your their daughter and their supposed to love unconditionally as is your Hubby! Unfortunatly your hubby seems very much like my soul sisters chap (he doesnt seem to apprciate that she,s actually got a point of view!) Hes basically A condesending T*8T! with victorian family values, we've had a few fallings out over how he speaks to her, the last few times fists have even flew, and hes a pagan too!

To slightly misquote rain

"wipe them off your shoe like the dog poo you missed"

Another wee thought - your partner SHOULD also be your best friend. Oddly enough, your friends AND himself appear to be treating you more like the enemy!
It seems to me you have arrived at a crossroads, where you are taking stock of the people you are CHOOSING to be around?
I always think, "What if they all vanished tomorrow? Would I, COULD I, survive?" And my answer, like most people's, is a resounding "Yes!" A chillling way to think, I realise, but it is worth pondering. You come into the world. You go out again. What do YOU want the bit in the middle to be like?
Also, we women can be INCREDIBLY strong if need be, and also defensive of our sense of right/wrong. Do you want your daughter to grow into adulthood with the same narrow ideals shared by her father, Gran, and her Mum's "friends"?
Sorry to further muddy the waters, but you gave her life. Your Mother gave YOU life. But - and here's the rub - did you give her life so you could control her? I doubt it!
BB Tasx

Well I suppose equal rights will be truly achieved in the UK when the Social Services truly recognize Paganism as a way of life, no different in its human needs than any other belief/religion...and conversely, who amongst the Pagan community, would be prepared to organize benefit/assistance for the less fortunate of their kind?

Interesting! Take a look at Herneoak's post re C.A.P.s!

I'm not talking about Christian organizations, I have no question they have well evolved in providing mutual relief to all. I hear the struggles of many Pagans in this forum seeking to have their beliefs respected for more than just being their personal choice. How far are we prepared to go in order to give it that quality of life that other faiths would truly respect?...or is the saying "charity begins at home" purely a Christian concept?

Not fer me - but then I'm not xian!

From what I have seen, that statement is not at all a Christian concept, infact, is not even in their vocabulary.
Well maybe and perhaps unfairly, I'm taring all branches of the xtian church with the same brush. Suffice to say that in the church I went to and to which my mother belonged most of her life, (about 60 years) they did not give a SH*T. they were nice to your face, full of love, etc., etc., while you were there, raising funds, doing things for the church, but if you became ill, and ceased to be able to do all those things the Ba****ds did not want to know you.
My mother raised a fortune for that church, she gladly gave her time and fathers hard earned cash, organised events and outings and then she had a stroke and was unable to go to church. She was ill and pretty well house bound for over three years before she died, during which time she received just one visit, while in hospital from the Minister (who just happened to live LESS than half a mile from the hospital), never once in that time was she offered communion, none of the church members or Elders came to visit her at all. On her death I notified her churches minister and on behalf of the church he very kindly !!!!! sent a condolence card (which very rapidly went in the dustbin).

Thank you all for your replies. They've given me hope.
Yes I do want to leave my husband, I don't hate him particularly, but I don't love him particularly either, and when a marriage gets to the point of sleeping in seperate rooms, well...
I'm terrified of confrontation which is why I'm still ducking out of facing up to a separation, also I have no money and no-where to go (am working on that one).
I'm hoping that over the coming months, maybe even years, my searches for an alternative spirituality will give me the strength to achieve what I know I want and what I believe is the right course for me.
Fundi christians don't bring their children up to have self-respect or independence and it's hard to acquire those qualities in later life.
You're all lovely and I'm really enjoying farricking about on this site.
Badger's Moon
xx

(Husband found a "witchy" book in my room and asked about it. I said it was just something I was interested in so he looked all po-faced and said "well I suppose it depends how far you mean to go"
I think he has this image in his head of scantily clad goth nymphettes and large horned men with enormous, er, "staffs" cavorting on a barren hilltop. I should be so lucky... )

Badgersmoon - if only he knew the REAL Truth! The image CLOSER to the images he has should be one of hundreds of pink Sheep, all flocking en mass to the Ritual Paddock for a quick frolic and a splash in the Font of Holy Sheep Dip!

Many lady sheep favour layers of pink woollies, but the Rams are well known to be rather horny at times! (Usually around full moon...)

More likely he was worried that you had been learning some spells, like how to turn a husband into a toad.

Yeah..he wishes ..lol.
Here a basic lesson in control freaks for ya, if it dont include them, then its bad for you . Anything that takes you away from their control is bad for you , you remember that hon they are sneaky buggers who will try turn it against ya because they have no say in it an, because they aint included in it. how dare you think for yourself..lol..twats.

Rain

As one who's been there, I can only concur with what Rain says.

Badgersmoon, you get yourself sorted out, have your plans in place, and put yourself in a position where no matter what, he can't touch you.

Take it from me, you'll save yourself a lot of grief if you do so.

The TONE of this thread has altered. Please, Badgersmon, remember that at the end of the day if your "partner" manages t odestroy your core of self, then what will your kids have? Not you.
Sorry if that sounds dreadfully harsh and melodramatic, but it's true. Be strong for the things that ARE important, YOU and any children you bring into this world.

Control freaks WILL become more so the MINUTE they get scared you are becoming more independent!!!

Thjey keep the control by making you so screwed up about apologising for being "bad/wrong/crazy" all the time that YU end up by not knowing what day of the week it is. THEN THEY CAN JUSTIFY IT ALL (!) by telling anyone else you ARE in fact crazy. See where this is going?
O.K. I am very cynical. having bought the T-shirt, but also I always tend to try for a middle ground. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater? But sometimes you need to just be strong and focused.

It is YOUR life.

BB, Tasx

It's only my opinion b. but personally I'd keep it quiet - if you can. I have been pagan for a very long time now and my parents don't know (and if they do they don't let on). I found it possible to live with my secret but I couldn't keep it from my partner (who is sympathetic) and I probably would be having a hard time of it if I couldn't be open with someone. Is there somebody who you can confide in? preferably someone who is also pagan and really understands your need to keep things quiet?

Is it a lie? well if it is I wouldn't get upset about it. (but I respect the fact you might not see it this way)

fizzy

'fraid so deerheart - although not all are as supersticious (Iknow I've spellt it wrong) some folks would happily send us all to hell - and they'd feel really good about it too.

Badger,

I been givin this some thought. Sometimes I can come on here and be a bit blunt and it takes time for me to settle down and relook at things.

I have to say I still stand by what I said, and from what you have said regarding your relationship.. i wasnt too far off the mark. Pomona is totally right though. You need to get sorted and pretty much get out. Believe me when I tell you that there are plenty of people on here, both men and women who have been where you are now, in a relationship where you are being controlled and we know how tough it is. We are also all here for you.

You cant come out now... ok... do what you gotta do to get gone and in the meantime, we know... you are out to us and while I know thats not the same as having someone you can sit with in the evening and bore senseless with a tirade about posts on here (as Vert so eloquently put with) and noone to celebrate the equinox with... we'll be celebrating with you.

One of the hardest things that I ever did was stop and take a breath.

When you are in a relationship where you are constantly pushed, constantly under preasure you stop thinking and thats what they depend on... keeping you so under the thumb you are constantly off kilter. Make an excuse... take a day or even an overnight away.. book into a b&b.. stay with a friend.. do something but catch your breath. Asses where you are and work out a plan, just like Pomona said, and if you ever need support, someone to talk to.. we're here.

Granted.. I may be utterly bullish, Quas may stun you with science, Queenie may suggest spandex as a cure for all ills and Pomona will stand by watch us all make utter tits our of ourselves and clean up the mess after...

... actually... maybe.. you should just go to Pomona and give the rest of us a wiiiiide berth!

You have my utmost sympathy Badger!

IMHO, this is exactly the sort of situation where the practition of your beliefs may help you. Before you can clearly and effectively deal with the issues that exist in your relationships with your family, you need to "enhance your calm" (sorry to quote a crap movie!). You should strive to ground and centre yourself, meditate and do work to enhance your serenity...by doing so, you'll naturally improve your inner strength and put yourself in a better position to deal with difficult emotional challenges. At the end of the day, you'll need to work towards being completely comfortable and confident with yourself before you can effectively defend/justify/explain your beliefs to your loved ones.

For the moment, until you're strong enough to deal with it, I would recommend not lying as such, but just keeping your head down. IMHO, if you are confident in your own beliefs, there's no real need to shout them from the rooftops. As you work on building your inner strength, you can start trying to have "innocent" conversations with your parents regarding spirituality....just as friendly conversation! Talk to them about their beliefs, their morality...and you can use that opportunity to impress upon them your OWN moral beliefs and their validity WITHOUT having to go into specifics about your Path. This will slowly acclimatise them to talking about such things with you...so when the time comes to come "out", it won't seem like such a cold bucket of water in their faces. Also a good opportunity to get a clearer idea of how they think spiritually, so you can more effectively answer their questions and allay their fears when the time comes.

The husband is a different matter...or at least it seems so from your posts. My ex-wife was also a control freak....and was determined to completely change my personality in an attempt to make me subserviant to her and to basically make me her own personal emotional whipping-boy. For a few years, it worked...I virtually forgot my true self as I tried desperately to fit into the mould she was making for me...needless to say I endured substantial humiliation, degredation as well as emotional and physical, yes physical abuse. Once she finally got fed up with the situation and left me, I was an emotional and spiritual wreck for over a year.

I cannot stress enough that you DON'T want things to get to the level of severity that they got with my 1st marriage. You need to work on building up your own strength, resolve and self-image so that you can do what needs to be done regarding your marriage. Not saying you should just leave him point-blank, but you will, for your own sake, need to confront him at some point and let him know exactly what you need in this relationship and, if it's not something he's willing to work on, you'll need to go. But as I said before, you need to work on helping yourself FIRST!

I know it all seems overwhelming, frightening and dimly awful....but you CAN take control of your life, be true to yourself AND still come out the other side with friends and family that love you...probably love you even more!

I also echo what others have said....we're all here for you as well!

Gobha

Thank you Gobha! That's kind of what I'm doing right now. I've stepped away from any possibility of confrontation for the moment. I'm working on learning how to meditate and speak to whoever I find in there (difficult when you have attention span of a goldfish but at least I've made a start) and how to relax a bit.

One problem with husband is that he hasn't moved at all, emotionally or spiritualy since he was 24. I have. And what seemed attractive in a man when I was 21 doesn't seem so attractive now...

Everyone who answered on here has been wonderful and it's helped so much, but I do feel the need of real humans to talk to about it sometimes. That's when it bites. For all I know you're all just computer gremlins....
I have a friend who's a Pagan, hedgewitch I think, but for some reason I feel like I'd be treading on her toes if I go in there all fired up like a zealot saying "oooh, tell me all about it!"
Badger's Moon
xx

Didn't celebrate the equinox last week, but am hoping to do something this week since he's away until Saturday. Whole evenings all to myself!


I don't think he even realises he's doing it half the time. At least that's what I infer from the look of injured innocence that passes his face when I try to tackle him about it.

See above ! Got my own company (and BabyBadger's) until Saturday. And he's off again week after Easter.


Bulls and science I can manage. Spandex on the other hand. Hmmm. "Bum like a sackful of rabbits" springs to mind in my case...
You're all lovely
Badger's Moon
xx

Ah, the "look of injured innocence"

To be followed by the expression of deep hurt and "I thought we were okay, I'm happy" (therefore you must be happy)

Followed by the "you can't leave me, I can't cope"

(so you think that he really needs you, he really does love you)

Followed by the "you can't leave me, I won't let you"

(so you think that he really really loves you)

Followed by the "if you leave me, then I'll..."

so you feel guilted into staying)

Followed by the "you'll never leave me".

(so you'll feel trapped and the control will be complete)

If this is misrepresentative of your situation Badgersmoon, or upsets you, then I apologise unreservedly and I'll ask one of the other mods to delete this post.

I post this, like that, because, like I said, I've been where you are now. And because I KNOW that the hurt looks are the first steps in the control freak's armoury. If he was really interested in you and your happiness then he'd be sitting down with you and trying to work things out. I'm sure I'm not alone in being in the situation where my ex threatened all sorts to get me to stay with him. Threats are never the sign of a happy marriage.

Gobha's advice is good. Get your head together, strengthen your resolve, in whatever direction that is, start planning your future, and then, if you really don't love him, and if he's showing any signs of manipulating you into staying, get out.

You only missed out the "I will have full custody of my daughter because you're a bad mother and can't look after her"
(which is pretty much unanswerable...)
I'm just biding my time, wifing my strength, saving my money and waiting for my moment.
Badger's Moon
xx

Sometime hon, I don't think you are the only one!

And my heart goes out to anyone in the same place. It's vile. All you can do is keep looking forward. Feel like I've got a place to rest on here though.
Badger's Moon
xx

I´m glad you feel comfortable and can rest here in the valley! No, You are not the only one.

Blessings and strenght
Deerheart