The last few days I can't get the idea out of my head that I'm going to "fail" at being a pagan. This comes from the 22 years I spent trying to be a Christian- I heard from day 1 about the "personal relationship with Jesus" but never felt I had that, and later joined a charismatic church which made me feel even more inadequate, like when everyone else was getting deep into the worship and I was feeling nothing, trying to convince myself I was praying in tongues but feeling I might just be making it up etc.

I keep reading about other peoples experiences and I'm worried that nothing like that will ever happen to me. Its so hard to find any time to be on my own but when I do try to meditate etc (even on the moors in my little magical grove of trees with my hand on a cup and ring stone) I felt nothing. I do feel nature is magical somehow when I wander about alone but I'd like to go further than that. I always felt God just didn't think I was worth bothering with, what if the gods or whatever is out there is the same?

I've always been a very spiritual person and craved a spiritual life with contact with something bigger than just my mundane life but never achieved it. But then again after 22 years of Christian conditioning I'm still SCARED of the gods.... while my hubby was on a business trip the last couple of days I was so spooked at night I found myself calling on Jesus for protection and as well as being scared aliens, ghosts or the devil would appear (my usual fears when alone at night) I was scared one of the gods might appear. Maybe nothing will happen until I get over that.

This finding your own way thing is sooo hard! Although being told what to do and it not "working" and then failing to keep it up (like regular prayer and Bible readng for example) wasn't much fun either.

Please give me a slap if I need one

There are plenty of people on here who can help you with the Christian problem you are having, unfortunately I cant comment never having been one!

However I can tell you this. You cant fail. Your path is your own. Dont forget that your christian way of live was given to you at birth. It is something you were brought up in, of course you fell like you are floundering because its so new, but you will find your way and yes.. it is hard, but it wont always be.

Dont worry about never having experiences like everyone else. You will. Course you will. It wont happen all at once, adn the first year is probably the hardest, but you will get there. Honest.

Xalle is perfectly correct. You can't fail hun. Paganism is a path, you will find your path, it will not happen overnight. I have only just started to follow mine. I am drawn to the Celtic path. I have read about it and ordered a few books and feel that I can identify with it.

Please remember, that unlike Christianity/the Church, NO ONE on here is going to say...."oooh you don't want to be thinking like that, think like me I'm right", or, "your beliefs are wrong because that's not what I believe." I don't know if I am wrong in saying this, but I feel that what I believe and do is really my own little "religion". I have my own way of doing things and my own beliefs.

Read through the forums and you will see that everyone on here has a different path to follow, but they still support each other in their beliefs.

Also, don't feel bad about not feeling spiritual. I love the outdoors, but I can't sit under a tree and feel its power or touch a stone and feel the energy coming from it. That doesn't mean I am not aware of nature and love it, and I hope that doesn't mean I am not a Pagan either. I love listening to the birds sing, and watching the clouds move across the sky and the moon.

Finding your way may seem scary at first, but relax, no one is going to scream and shout at you because it is taking you a bit of time. You have the rest of your life to learn and grow. In a few years I will probably be following a totally different path. I feel close to Brigid at the moment, but like Pomona said to me, she may be getting me ready to pass me onto someone else at a later date as I grow and learn more about who I am.

Have fun and enjoy the learning process.

lots of love
gina
xxxx

I do know something of how you feel. I never tried very hard to become a christian, but I've been hearing the "accept jesus as your personal saviour" since before I could talk myself, and I've just never been able to do it. I had the concept of the elect explained to me at a very early age, and realised straight away that my name almost certainly wasn't in the book of life so why bother? It never felt right, I never got any response to prayer - apart from once which I now firmly believe was a hallucination caused by anti-depressants.
The concept of the christian god sets humans up to fail. We are but weak sinful vessels. We are predestined failures, contaminated by original sin. What hope have we of attaining anything but by the grace (or otherwise) of god? Therefore it's very important to get things right. Failure can only lead to damnation.
Christianity does tell you what to do and yes it's scary to have to go it alone but those who feel no fear will never learn. What's that self-help book called? "Feel the fear and do it anyway!"

I experience night terrors too, much less than I used to but they still pop up now and again. One very mundane trick I learned as a child is to remember that on the other side of the world it's the middle of the day. People are eating lunch, in the office, at school, somewhere the sun is shining and life goes on. Imagine the dawn breaking over a tranquil pacific island or Tokyo commuters packed into a train.
Now when they happen I practice visualising my aura drawing close around me, protecting me from anything and anyone unfriendly.

The refreshing thing I'm finding about exploring Paganism is that failure is nt such a big deal. It's OK to get things wrong. If I send up a prayer to the Goddess and I don't think I've made a connection, well then maybe I'm tired and not focussing right. Maybe I'm asking for the wrong thing. Heck, maybe she's already busy! I don't feel that I've been shut out or punished for anything. Probably others will be shocked at such cavalier attitude...

Maybe you could look inwards for a while? Just practice being still in your grove of trees, without trying to make contact, and simply be with the trees and the quiet.

Buggrit I've been burbling. If you want to chat or take issue with anything I've said, feel free to PM me.
Happy Thoughts
Badger's Moon
xx

Hey Moonrising - I can identify with some of your stuff. I am not afraid of failing/falling as I have found such freedom in my new spirituality, although initially I had the old fundi voice in my head telling me I was deceived and had backslidden and was merrily off to hell! That has pretty much died now! But re feeling s'spiritual' I know just what you mean - I have alwayas had a pretty intense and emotional 'relationship with God' and was heavily into prohetic stuff. But it seems ot all have dried up! I meditate but lose concentration, I can't seem to 'see' anything anymore nand feel stuck somewhat. I feel alone in this as have no one to talk to (face to face - support on here is a life line!) and am so used to having a 'mentor' who 'discipled' me to help me on my spiritual journey.... but now am finding the path so much less clear!

Whoa - a bit of a splurge - sorry hun, might start my own thread re this (as funnily enough had been chewing the possibility of this over yesterday!)

Hang in there hun, I am sure it is worth it, no one will judge you/us, just keep seeking light and the truth and the gods will honour that and come to you (I think!) Hope that last bit doesn't sound too xian - in now way intended that way!

Moonrising, you don't need a slap. But you might want to ease up on being overly self critical. Firstly, the Christian thing- I've met rather a lot of Christians who never got that relationship with JC thing and continue to believe and to wait in hope for that encounter. They point out that it is a faith thing, which is cool by me. If you've been involved with trying to follow a specific faith for a reasonably long period of time, or got DEEPLY involved in a relatively short period of time even, certain worldview/perspective things will have taken root. The whole belief thing will run its course until you find what resonates for you.

There are many Pagans who haven't had encounters with deities/the spirit realm. There are a fair number who don't really believe in Gods and Goddesses even. For many, it's not the meeting with the 'divine' but the quest for that meeting that provides them with deep spiritual insights. But if such a meeting with the 'divine' is going to happen then it will happen when it is right to happen. There are vast numbers of different ways people seek the divine. It's possible that one of those ways will be right for you. It is also possible that you will find your own unique way.

Hang in there.

BB

Mike

Oh dear. Years of xian upbringing, and now this! Before it was Them telling you what to feel, and when to feel it, plus why to feel it.
You have now come away from all that, only to find you're asking all the same questions, and getting all the same type of answers - only from the Pagan mob!
i.e. Don't feel bad, don't feel so scared, do this, do that etc. And it all becomes even more confusing - frightening even.

The way I see it is that we ask questions because we have free will. Something the Church has tried to drum out of people, mainly by inferring that free will came at a cost - that of Original Sin. And that we as xians would have to atone for that, not only in this world (by showing our fealty to the Chuch) but also in the next, as in being "saved/cleansed by the blood of the Lamb of God" etc. before we had a hope in hell of attaining our place (as "good Xians") at the right hand of God.
Note I used the "we" as I too have been where you are, though not feeling quite so distraught, fortunately.

Really, it seems to come down to the whole "free will" issue. As children, xianity teaches fear. Naturally, this then becomes "default mode" - a sort of strange "comfort zone" that ensures few stray from the xian faith. (I call it brainwashing.)

Whether you believe in a God or many, a God of one gender, or of others (including hermaphrodism) really doesn't matter. You still feel awe and a certain amount of fear about contacting him/her/they. And to a great extent this is exactly as the xian faith taught you, and as it SHOULD be! They are awesome. But they are NOT vengeful and manipulative as the Church portrays God, for its own ends.
And before someone says "Oh, JC was kind and helped, and God forgives etc" please, get real. Christianity teaches the NT, but the OT as well. And is FULL of glaring contradictions. The main function of xianity is (to my mind) coercive.
So I am not in the least surprised that you are experiencing the night terrors. Years of indoctrination won't just disappear overnight, because your brain has been deliberately hardwired to believe in hellfire etc etc.

But the Old Ones gave us life, love and laughter. They allowed us free will, without the strings attached. They know that we feel our wrongdoings and make our OWN reparations. Pagans (certainly Witches) must take their OWN decisions, make their OWN actions. By doing this, we grow apace, and our Gods welcome us with unconditional love and give us pleasures of the type the Church frowns upon. The main one being freedom of will!

I have rambled on, and I'm sorry about that. I know you are having a crisis of confidence, but - remember the White Horse's eye, and how you felt back then. That is something NO ONE can take from you!
Tasx

I can't comment on the Christian biot, never having been one, but I'd say the important thing is to hang on in there!

Do you what you feel is right for you, if wandering about in nature feels right for you at the moment, then do it. Formal ritual doesn't work for everyone. I suspect that if you relax a bit and stop worrying about it, the rest will come.

Just relax and stop worrying about what you do/dont feel or what you should be feeling. Its all about YOU and your path adn finding yoru own way.
Take your time, theres no rush, you dont have to find a path to be "saved". you need to find things in your own time and actually, for many pagans, the whole POINT of life is the learning,the journey.

Read books, go with yoru instincts, try things. If one thing/path doesnt work, try something else, or, create your own eclectic path because its is VERY personal.

Tree xx

i too have ben brought up as a christain and felt everything you have said in your post, i have been through lots of pain and found asking myself who i really was.
i was searching for an answer and began on a another spiritual path.
im always open to other spiritual natures but for me i feel im happy with having the christian morals that i have and still do apply but walking the path that i feel is right for me.whether it be pagan,spiritualist or any other, i feel we all are here to serve and help others and we all meet together again in the spirit world whatever religion we practice.
x

Heh. that happened to me, too. So nice to find someone else who 'didn't get it'. Thank you.



I find it's feast or famine. You know - like buses? No one talks to you for months then three of them turn up at the same time and demand all your attention.

I don't think I got much personal stuff from gods for the first year or so. And a lot of last year seemed to be pretty devoid of them, as well.

Does it matter, as long as you're happy with what you do experience? If you put aside some feeling that you 'ought' to feel X, would you feel content? If so, why not ignore that little voice telling you what you 'ought' to feel. As others have said, the nice thing about paganism is there isn't an 'ought' in that way.



And maybe it's just a matter of time, hon.



It all seems quite reasonable to me - some of them can be awkward sods.

I suspect that when one contacts you it will be the most unscary thing you can imagine. More like "Hey, how about reading that book...that one over there on that shelf." Then you read it and get interested in a certain god and get the sense s/he is reading over your shoulder. Then maybe nothing except a general feeling of wellbeing.

Every experience is different.

Hello Moonrising, thanks for sharing these feelings with others. 22 years (maybe more?) is a heck of a long time to be frightened, would you like a rest? The Christian religion is not for me. I do not reject Christianity because I simply do not understand it, but I don't think I need to understand it to lead the life I want. You have spent a long time under the torment of guilt. It will pass though, and you will be happier. You say that you feel nothing, even in meditation in nature? Well, nature feels you. You have an effect on nature, and ask yourself "why do I go outside to think and meditate?" - it is because you appreciate her beauty. You influence nature, she influences you - a connection.

We are all of us frightened from time to time, sometimes usefully (someone's attacking me - run away! Or, In my case, "I've got no more curry! Oh No!"), but the fears of the mind (which I suppose we all suffer from, time to time) - do they serve a purpose other than to depress our spirit and doubt our selves? Would you not rather just sleep at night, rather than fearing the wrath of a god you never believed in, and trying to find solace in a personal relationship with the "great JC, your buddy who died for your sins", a relationship you feel you never had?

No need to rush it mate, it'll come, whatever path you find. Letting it happen is the quickest way to get there!

If you'd like to PM that would be fine, maybe talking would help you. Sleep well and look after yourself!

Scyld.

Now THIS I can relate to!
What an excellent way to put it Scyld!

(*** scyld takes bow, says "you're too gracious Taz", and discovers some more curry in his cauldron ***)

Hi moonrising
You have got so much good advice from these answers. I just want to say that I came from the same place as you, having been Christian for many years. I think it was during my treatment for breast cancer 4 years ago that I noticed I couldn't pray. Not only that , I didn't want to pray. I had nothing to say. It all fell apart and nothing made any sense to me. I wandered around literally like a lost soul and then by pure chance I found a website by Sally Morningstar about Hedgewitchcraft. I knew immediately that I was one! I had probably always been one! God/dess saw that I was lost and came looking for me in a way that I could understand. I read The Charge of the Goddess and knew I was home where I belonged. I lost my religion and found my soul. We are still loved and cannot be lost. Enjoy your new path. The best advice I was given on here was to read read read! I offer it to you. BB Make your own path. You are not alone.

Thanks . I haven't been around here so much lately as I've been hanging out on the OBOD site- have signed up to their course and am feeling pretty blissful about it. I feel like myself for the first time in many years .

I read a book by Emma Restall-Orr and what really stuck on my head was where she said that you don't have to have faith or believe in anything you can't see/ experience, so I'm holding on to that and feel that what needs to come will come and the pressure to jump into something new to believe in has ebbed away.

Its nearly a year since I left the church now and I am so much happier and healthier. I do have regrets that I stuck with it so long but I'm so glad that the rotten new church we joined when we moved here 3 years ago was bad enough to push me over the edge

"Good on us ALL mates!"

hiya, know what you mean about restall-orr and I certainly agree with what you are saying about faith and pressure. Its a really freeing feeling, isn't it? good luck with your OBOD course.

fizzy

The indoctrination which many of us had growing up (albeit in many cases unconsciously) means that it's inevitable there's a massive feeling of guilt when we move away from the things we were taught were "right" and start to make our own discoveries.

There's a new website started up by one of the other members here, called Pagan Outreach which is essentially an interfaith site for Christians and Pagans, but slanted for new Pagans seeking to shake off the shackles of their Christian upbringing. You might find it worth a wee look too

Thanks , will have a look