OK, so following on from Weatherwitch's Post, how do Neo Pagans see Nature?

In Frith

wolverine.

Well for me the thread title says it all really.

Nature is Tooth and Claw, it can be harsh and often is. yes there is a calm peaceful side to it as well but on the whole Nature and Life is a constant struggle for survival. look at the mating rituals of most animals, it is the strongest who generally get the 'girl' as it were, most animals have to fight their way to breading, and to maintain that status as top of the chain.

Take yourself out onto the moors and watch the weather, can be bright and sunny with a view of miles, one minute then WHAM! you are in the middle of thick low cloud, it's raining hard and the wind is howling around you, you cant see more than a few hundred yards if that.

Great Wolvie, I'm glad to see that someone's not just along for the ride.

My view of Nature, as is on planet Earth, makes no exception of these "higher order" simians, that despite all their "modern conveniences" are still perfectly unawares that its really all much of the same sexual display and dominant chest-pounding. Although many still piss in corners to mark their territory, they have this vessel called the "sacred thundermug" where they make ritual offerings to the poor bastards in the water processing plant who have to clean up the mess before the whole planet turns into a giant cesspool. Indeed this could breed superior life forms that could make it blatantly obvious that "humans" are not really at the top of the food chain. What is really at the top of the food chain are these things called Black Holes, a kind of cosmic recycler that happens wherever the feeding frenzy has the opportunity to take on so much mass, it exceeds what humans call the dreaded "Schwarzschild limit". Indeed this is one of Nature's prime examples of how to deal with too much "consumerism" by turning it all back into the "dark matter" from whence everything comes. Yup, human's have a real problem trying to figure this primordial stuff out, but really its much of the same manure that makes things grow anywhere. Frankly, I've always found it strange that very few humans have ever conceived a "manure god" as their divine creator. In fact, I find that humans have a hard enough time trying to figure themselves out, let alone dare catch any real glimpse of the "big picture"...but then, if Nature didn't side with the hidden flaw, they never would have made it past the Bubonic plague.

This Neo Pagan sees nature as everything, really.

It’s heart-stoppingly beautiful - the grace and strength of the osprey as it pulls itself upwards and then plummets in a display calculated to both win the girl and frighten off competition, the plumage on birds of paradise, the myopic gaze of the tiny kitten, the moutains that soar into the clouds and the waterfalls that seem to fall off the edge of the world.

It’s ugly and brutal - parasites that eat creatures from the inside out, the poison from the plant that kills slowly, the diseases that disfigure and kill, the dolphins who "play" with porpoises by tossing them up in the air for no discernible reason other than bullying.

It’s absolutely terrifying – the roar of the hurricane, the forest fire advancing at 30mph, the tsunami approaching, the fear of the antelope as the lionness leaps on her back.

It’s brave and fearless – the seals who run the gauntlet of the waiting, prowling sharks every day to get to the feeding areas; the sea-lion who fights off the predatory polar bear, the male emperor penguins who huddle together during the very worst of the Antarctic storms to protect each other and the precious eggs.

It’s tender and kind - the female animals who rear their young and shelter and care for them, the wild dogs of Africa who will care for an injured group-member and bring it food to help it survive.

It’s life and death: the millions of creatures born every day, the millions of creatures which die every day and which return to the earth, fertilising it, and nourishing the foodchain.

It is, quite simply, just awesome in the OED sense of the word!

That's how I see it. Never as just one thing, but always as a balance.

Pomona said it far far better than I could as my post proves

(my excuse is I had only just got up when I posted )

Nature is everything! Nature is resplendent in all it's true glory! Humankind doesn't stand a chance when faced with it HA! HA! Thru environmental disasters, nuclear annihilation, global warming ....you name it....nature will ALWAYS win....re:- the Gaia Hypothesis etc. Humankind is pitiful when pitted against such overwhelming odds. Pikey.

Ditto to Pomona.

I tend to see nature as everything as well Pamona.

It's a moody gitt just like me

How can I stand in the midst of a thunder storm and not be in awe?
How can I walk along shores where the waves crash and tumble and not feel humble?
How can we try to harness and restrain something so vital and raw?

In the warm summer sun I can feel the caress of those long gone,
The wind whispering through the trees, tales of heroes unsung
In the clearing reflections of things I have done,
Nature's my heartbeat, my drive, my spirit, my feeling of one.

In the harsh frost of winter, reality is born,
A reminder that all that begins must end, nature has so much more to send,
An icey poke in the ribs, a cool slap in the face for those of us who mourn summer too long.
Between mortality and promise of new birth my feelings are torn.

How can I look in the mirror and not see nature?
It's there, in every feature.

Barn * don't shoot me - I never said I wiz a poet *

nature is lots of different things from cold, cruel to bloody hot and hurts to warm and relaxing and really moving emotionally.

How do I feel about it? wouldn't be without it - WW said most of it re: its the thing beneath your feet and its alive kind of thing. i always feel better afterwards, my feet don't hurt so much (ie arthritis etc) and I feel revived - a sort of mini rest makes it all worthwhile.

soz its so brief.

fizzy

Yup, Nature IS wonderful - in all her adaptations, whether we like these or not.

It's the "flesh eating bug" that's attacking a colleague's daughter's breasts. Her baby is only weeks old and her 2 year old doesn't understand why she can't see her mummy, and everyone's praying for her life, and also afraid the baby is infected - she was breast feeding.
And WE help to create these "super bugs" - as Quasi pointed out so eruditely.

It's also being aware that far from the "meek inheriting the earth" if some nutter ever does push the red button, the rats and cockroaches will survive! (Rats can live in deep freeze storage - they just grow more fur! And roaches swim about merrily INSIDE nuclear reactors... )

Whilst I am not into the teachings of Crowley, he took cognisance of the shit God, as did the Egyptians who worshipped the scarab beetle.

Nice roses...

Nature WAS. Nature IS. Nature WILL BE.
Existance, Experiance, Exploration.
The light, The dark.
The Birth, The Suffering, The Death.
I Live it, I Love it, I Loathe it.

RamsHart

Ditto Pomona. And the sheer exuberant thrill of being just a little tiny part of it.

Cheers
Finvarra

A force I am blessed in exploring. The forests are nature's cathedrals, and the earth is life's amphitheatre. I am constantly in awe of it.

With regards to the survival of the fittest concept, I believe the human race has taken itself largely beyond this and our particular species is weakening. I do realise that my sentiments here smack somewhat of Social Darwinism, reminiscent of Hitler's henchmen. Worrying eh? Heeeeelp.

Raven

Yep, Pomona put it really well.

Some time ago, when a particular god claimed me, he gave me an insight into where he came from in the nature v civilisation debate. this is just a fraction of it:

Mine are the coast escarpments that, decaying, destroy homes;
Mine are the weeds and bramble that reclaim old aerodromes.
Mine are the lands that farmers work to clear and grow a crop;
Mine are the things that give them grief and makes their task non-stop

We resist if we will, but, in the end, nature will win out. Canute did not try to stop the waves; he tried to show his counsellors the limitations of the power of men to win out over nature.

The spirits of the land, the animals and the gods are out there; who are we to hold up our hands and say 'er...I'm not sure I can cope with this...'

Not sure if this is how neo-pagans see nature but humans' own 'nature' has historically seen nature as something to be tamed!! Since the year dot when someone decided this nomad stuff wasn't for them we've been working and developing the land, and taming its animals to do what we want, or at least stay still long enough for us to bump them off. Meanwhile we're doing all we can to fight our own physical and mental natures; with criminal justice systems, with contraceptives, with scientists trying to prolong life beyond all good sense...seems we're quite opposed to what nature has to offer.

Just sounding off, not expecting any answers

Yup, you're definitely right there! Perhaps the most wide-spread case of bi-polar schizophrenia to have ever inflicted the course of evolution! Kinda like the disease that afflicts rabbits when their populations get too big.

Humans have been altering nature for 1000s of years. Just a thought here, but since we are a part of nature anything we do is also a part of nature and if that is the case are we actually tampering with nature (I throw that in not necessarily believing it myself!)

What do we mean by nature? Our definition of nature is fashioned by our culture and our cultural outlook and what how we see nature is not the same as how other cultures see it. The English idea of nature is very artificial and our landscape is largely man-made (farms, parks, Capability Brown, Bloody-Stupid Johnson (ha ha) and so on).

Even some neolithic sites we visit are largely 20th century reconstructions (Avebury for example) and we have no idea how the ancients who constructed them saw nature or responded to it.

Nature (artificial or not) is an awe-inspiring thing in all its manifestations and I'm glad I live in the countryside and can witness it on a daily basis.

For me - it is simultaneously serene and fills me with more wonder than I can express, and it is 'red in tooth and claw' and is more unpredictable and powerful than we can comprehend. It can never be good or evil - it just is.