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UK Pagan, The Valley > The Circle (all pagans together) > General Paganism
Flaxen
I was listening to a song by Wendy Rule yesterday called 'Three Colours'. It's based on the Irish myth of Deirdre. The three colours which crop up are white, black and red. I was musing on what a striking visual image those 3 colours make but didn't think an awful lot more about it.

Later that evening I picked up 'Angela Carter's book of fairytales' and started to red through some of the European fairytales. I couldn't help but notice how often those same three colours would come up. Some examples:

Snow white: Black hair, white skin and lips/cheeks are red
Snow White and Rose Red: white roses, red roses and a black bear
The juniper Tree: A boy is magically created who is 'as red as blood and as white as snow'
Twelve wild ducks: the queen wishes for a daughter 'as white as the snow and as red as blood'

I started to think about what those colours might represent-red could obviously represent life's blood, black and white (light/dark, good/bad)?

Or it could just be aesthetically pleasing smile.gif

Any thoughts?
Thinair
White = birth/heaven
Red = life/blood
Black = death/underworld

Would be my guess.
Flaxen
Yes, those would seem the most likely interpretations.

Considering that fairy tales were originally aimed at adults, could it be that they were ways of transmitting knowledge/teachings?

Were they interpreted on 2 levels-1 as a good story for the majority and 2 as a teaching tool for those aware of hidden meanings? I'm going to use a Christian analogy here with Jesus parables which were taken to have meanings beyond the literal. Perhaps most religious myths/stories are not meant to be taken literally but have some metaphorical/allegorical meaning.

Tas Mania
All based on the degree of interpretation methinks! happy.gif
Flaxen
True!

Some people could find hidden meaning in a random webpage smile.gif
hedgerose
QUOTE(Thinair @ Jun 1 2008, 11:06 AM)
White = birth/heaven
Red = life/blood
Black = death/underworld

Would be my guess.
*




Maybe white for death, and black for gestation/germination. Just a thought.
Whiskers
In traditional covens witches are given 9 foot ropes to signify their degree of initiation.
1st degree - white
2nd degree - white and red
3rd degree - white, red and black
Do you think theres a connection? Like Thinair said, it could be a birth/life/death kinda thing.
morbidia
white =semen = sperm =life
red=blood =womb lining= life
black=death
thats what i think,but then i havent a clue what im on about most of the time,i did read somewhere that the ribbons on a Maypole are red and white for the above reasons, is this right or a load of old codswallop?
Thinair
Actually - Hedgerose makes an interesting point! Huge Indo-European influence on Britain, in which white is indeed death. Too easy to imprint modern symbolism onto it smile.gif White is also the colour of the skull. It's hard to dig up past culture's symbolism, but perhaps their influence remains today in other cultures.

There tends to be a relation to three in most cultures though. Usually between the sky, earth and underworld.
Gawain
I use
White = Maiden
Red = Mother
Black = Crone
And also
Green = Horned God
Flaxen
QUOTE(Thinair @ Jun 2 2008, 09:23 AM)
Actually - Hedgerose makes an interesting point! Huge Indo-European influence on Britain, in which white is indeed death. Too easy to imprint modern symbolism onto it smile.gif White is also the colour of the skull. It's hard to dig up past culture's symbolism, but perhaps their influence remains today in other cultures.

There tends to be a relation to three in most cultures though. Usually between the sky, earth and underworld.
*



Yes, I thought that was an interesting way of looking at it. I was watching the 'Stonehenge Decoded' prog on National Geographic yesterday and they showed a winter solstice procession to honour the dead where the faces were painted white. Haven't been able to find out what they based this on though...
Wulfric
Ancient man in certain areas (the middle east is the only one that springs to mind) used to paint the dead red - in fact I do remember reading somewhere that it seems even neanderthals did this so early humans may have acquired this ritual/symbolism/whatever-it-was from the Neanderthals. The red, presumably, being the earth where the body was being returned. As a curious aside the biblical Adam, whose name means Earth, has been conjectured to mean "red earth" and may indicate a funereal rite.
wolverine
QUOTE(Wulfric @ Jun 3 2008, 07:19 PM)
Ancient man in certain areas (the middle east is the only one that springs to mind) used to paint the dead red - in fact I do remember reading somewhere that it seems even neanderthals did this so early humans may have acquired this ritual/symbolism/whatever-it-was from the Neanderthals. The red, presumably, being the earth where the body was being returned.  As a curious aside the biblical Adam, whose name means Earth, has been conjectured to mean "red earth" and may indicate a funereal rite.
*




I think this Idea *may* have been to Blood them, give them new life in the after/undereworld.
Ffred_Clegg
QUOTE(Wulfric @ Jun 3 2008, 07:19 PM)
Ancient man in certain areas (the middle east is the only one that springs to mind) used to paint the dead red


Much closer to home, the Paviland Cave burial in South Wales was also painted red (and originally called the Red Lady, until someone worked out that he was actually a bloke...)

gwyn eich byd

Ffred
Wulfric
QUOTE(wolverine @ Jun 3 2008, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(Wulfric @ Jun 3 2008, 07:19 PM)
Ancient man in certain areas (the middle east is the only one that springs to mind) used to paint the dead red - in fact I do remember reading somewhere that it seems even neanderthals did this so early humans may have acquired this ritual/symbolism/whatever-it-was from the Neanderthals. The red, presumably, being the earth where the body was being returned.  As a curious aside the biblical Adam, whose name means Earth, has been conjectured to mean "red earth" and may indicate a funereal rite.
*




I think this Idea *may* have been to Blood them, give them new life in the after/undereworld.
*



Makes sense.
Wulfric
QUOTE(Ffred_Clegg @ Jun 3 2008, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(Wulfric @ Jun 3 2008, 07:19 PM)
Ancient man in certain areas (the middle east is the only one that springs to mind) used to paint the dead red


Much closer to home, the Paviland Cave burial in South Wales was also painted red (and originally called the Red Lady, until someone worked out that he was actually a bloke...)

gwyn eich byd

Ffred
*



Ah, I knew there were other sites indicating that it was quite a wide-spread practice. Cheers Ffred.
Xalle
QUOTE(Flaxen @ Jun 1 2008, 09:53 AM)
I was listening to a song by Wendy Rule yesterday called 'Three Colours'. It's based on the Irish myth of Deirdre. The three colours which crop up are white, black and red. I was musing on what a striking visual image those 3 colours make but didn't think an awful lot more about it.

Later that evening I picked up 'Angela Carter's book of fairytales' and started to red through some of the European fairytales. I couldn't help but notice how often those same three colours would come up. Some examples:

Snow white: Black hair, white skin and lips/cheeks are red
Snow White and Rose Red: white roses, red roses and a black bear
The juniper Tree: A boy is magically created who is 'as red as blood and as white as snow'
Twelve wild ducks: the queen wishes for a daughter 'as white as the snow and as red as blood'

I started to think about what those colours might represent-red could obviously represent life's blood, black and white (light/dark, good/bad)?

Or it could just be aesthetically pleasing smile.gif

Any thoughts?
*



It could be something quite simple.. red lips have always been a very primal "sexual" lure, white skin is associated with being "clean" free of disease, and raven black hair indicates youth and strength.

Alternatively.. and I did a little checking, black, white and red and gold are the main colours on the flag of what was "germany" where the Bros Grimm came from, also red and white for yer nordic tales, including gold on both regional flags too... just a thought...
Ondia
Just to mention, colour terms in languages turn out to be added in an order. In languages in which there are only two, they are of course Black and White, which is generalized to mean Dark and Light. The next colour added is red, consistently. For the sake of completeness, the fourth term added is either yellow or green, the fifth term added is the other of those two, the sixth is blue, the seventh is brown, and the eighth is pink, purple, orange, or grey, and it moves on from there. A couple of links on that, just to prove I didn't make this up for the purpose of this discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Color_T...y_and_Evolution
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_168b.html

I think these three are relevant in folklore in part because they're among the most basic colours. And I think the symbolism attached to those three is probably more primal (and closer to universal) than any others. Black and white are the most basic possible terms, and obviously ally themselves with day and night. Red is not only bright, but also associated in nature with warning, and also blood/life. Makes sense to me that these would be The Big Three there.
Wulfric
Also red could be acquainted with fire. When we first learned to bang the rocks together we started the process that led to modern technology. Fire is a purifier, a destroyer, a preserver, a friend and an enemy.
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