No, not the physical but Spiritual

How many of the Witches on UKP use this particular Crafting to aid them ?

Or are used BY it?

Im beginning to notice a theme here!

Yeah, its called "telehypnosis".

Hares, cats, horses, bears, wild boar, otters, seals.
Would love to say wolves, bees, foxes, badgers, deer but nix.

Keep trying

Doesn't help that I am living in East Anglia. When I was in the Lake District, had a lot more access to a lot more ways of being.

Worst of it is - the wild boar thing is so strong that location/actual meetings makes no difference. Not the animal I'd have picked to represent me - those of you who know my posts - I think would agree - I'm a lot more subtle and kind? (or maybe not? Hyppy and others - comments welcome!) I'm I think this an animal I need to get the next stage of my life going and that is why it keeps appearing.

HoneyWitch, the Wild Boar is an important Power Animal and Ally!
They are as intelligent as Pigs (smarter than Dogs), but also have a LOT of power!
A full grown male can weigh up to 175kg, 3' at the shoulder and 1.5 metres in length, add to this long tusks and a powerful bite!
The Celts and other European Cultures held them in great Respect!
The commonly featured as Tribal Totems and on Battle Standards, the Orci Tribe was named after them, meaning People of the Boar.
They were the Inspiration for the Orcs in Lord of the Rings.
Merlin spent a lot of time in his Wilderness years, after the Battle Rage, in the company of a young Boar.
Their sense of smell is excellent for locating Truffles (rare and expensive)
Its Energy is that of 'Balance' (very important) in the same way the Celtic Warriors viewed themselves as Warrior Bards.
The Boar Balances great Strength and Power, with Intelligence and Sensitivity to their Environment!

Now dont let me hear you running the Wild Boar down again! You should be Honoured!
Hope that helps!

The boar brings both knowledge and enlightenment. Knowing of self, which brings enlightenment. It also nurtures, is fertile, and protects.

Be pleased!

There are two basic forms of shapeshifting technique. That which involves OBE or bilocation applies to spiritual journeying in the form of one's totem. Examples are the Hamatsas of the Kwakiutl tribe and the shaman/berserker trads of the Baltic and Eastern Europe. This advanced form of deep trancing first involves a period of isolation in the wilderness, where the adept is able regress to a state of pure animal instinct. Traditional costumes and masks are usually worn to enhance the synthesis. Once that is achieved, the adepts gather at a suitable sacred site to complete the trancing through rigorous ritual dance. The Upper Bavarian and Black Forest Perchta walk is a survivor of this ancient tradition in Southern Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchta

The second basic form of shapeshifting involves telepathic projection- that can be used to elude, deceive, or beguile an observer. Also known in popular modern witchcraft as "transmogrification".

Take a look at my armband tattoo on my upper right arm/ sword arm. I have the Boar and the Oakleaf. Strength and wisdom. The Boar is a great animal to work with Honeywitch!

Honeywitch

In Heathenry the Boar is the animal associated with Freyja (possibly the most powerful of the Vanir) so a very powerfull and respected animal.

i personaly go into my spirit Wolf and run for miles A wolf is very apt for me as according to myth Sol( my matron deitiy) is constantly chased by one and it is one of the animals associated with Woden (my patron Detiy)

Mojie

Im gonna ask why do you want to know.

Im not sure how I feel about the way the questions are being phrased. I thought to begin, that it was a genuine question about the differences/links between shamanisim and witchcraft and now, well now Im not sure. However all the questions are "to the witches" and none of them offer any of your own opinion. If you were new to this site, the members would be asking why do you want to know, and should you not offer from yourself before demanding of others. I think its only fair we ask the same of the older members too.

I'm interested in the Witches or any members opinions or experiences of Witchcraft from different angles

How many of the Witches on UKP use this particular Crafting (shapeshifting) to aid them ?

I'll repeat my earlier post: "Or are used BY it?"

ie - the assumption here is that shapeshifting is something one does as something learned. I am not going to speak for any other person's practice/s but I still believe that it is something which can be done to a person. The trick maybe lies in awareness of what is happening and when it is about to happen or else the time is apt, and also WHY it is happening.

And I appreciate that, I do... but I also think that it might be good for you to offer up something too other than, dont you think?

I tend to agree with your POV on this one Xalle.

I'm a tad curious as to why you want to know so much about what Witches' views are on Fetches and Shapeshifting.

When's the book coming out?

Is it not just a simple question? As usual nobody is forced to reply. As one who knows relatively little about shapeshifting, personally i would like to have the opportunity of reading something about it from the inhabitants of the valley. Or is it another one of these big secrets?

Woozle I dont understand why you seem to choose to misunderstand what people are saying. I didnt say it was a secret, I said, I wasnt sure about the way things were being asked, especially when the poster has chosen NOT to share his experiences of same. This isnt "a" question, this is one of a series of questions that have been asked in the same manner and I would just like a little something from Wolvie about either his experiences or has reasons behind the questions.

Since the person that I answered that to has already experienced this , then I think "keep trying" is suffice

Apart from the book bit My reasons are the same as why I am a member of this forum, to discuss the wondrous qualities within Paganism

Seems a pretty innocent question to me, I have to admit.

I've not shapeshifted many times, but when I have it's been as a wolf. I must have something to do with my personality, etc., I suppose. This is why my fylgja is a wolf as well I would guess.

It's an interesting sensation - running free and so on.

can i plead total ignorance here and ask how should i understand spiritual shapeshifting?
is it something you do or something you have done to you? Is it just two different interpretations of the same thing or diffrent experiences altogether but with the same name for them?

So.. discuss. Otherwise its just us talking at you.

Read my reply in post #11

I did, and useful it was too. However i don't quite understand Tas's pov about it getting done to you.

Well I cant speak for everyone on this one Woozle but the method I use is to change my Hamr (Astral Body or Aura) into that which I want to shape into, then try & get into the spirit or feel of the intended Animal.

This is done through Meditation & Visualisation.

Well thats something at least....

I dont use it often. Im not all that sure that I see a difference between what you are sugesting here and totem animals as I think someone else mentioned. I freely admit, its not something Im that adept at. Yes I have done it, but Im not sure what I've gotten out of it. As far as I can work out, the animal I seem to be able to shift to/with is an otter. Its... nice, I mean it affords a certian sense of freedom and a way of looking at things. I have tried other animals, but with little success as I dont really have the patience to spend the time REALLY working on it.

I would be more likely to "borrow" as granny weatherwax would put it, and I dont really think its the same thing. Again, not something Im that good at... but the whole "astral" thing just doesnt really appeal to me.

No worries, not much to understand as the remark was more vague than actually cryptic. Gave no examples.

That is something i can relate to. So i suppose it could work the other way to and you get your Hamr being used by an unintended animal?

Again, I can't speak for others, but I don't become my fylgja (or totem animal if you prefer), since I've run with my fylgja when shapeshifted. I must admit that I'm pretty crap at other animals as well - lack of practice I guess.

Like all things you get out of it what you put in, also it depends on what you want, which is different for everyone. Me, I like seeing nature and the world from a different perspective - it's adds to my perception of the world and makes me see things in a new light. Also, there are senses which I really don't have as a human - that sense of smell for instance, which are vivid in another form.

Well so far, as far as I'm aware, I have not experienced that so I don't know

I tend to use shapeshifting more for projected illusion, as I have a strong empathic bond to things anyway. It has its convenience of eluding the questing eyes of nuisances in my life. I have used fetches in this way too. As a child I had a talent of projecting hideous creatures to spook bullies, but usually my bad temper prefered to thump them.

Im not sure that I woul class them as the same thing at all. I dont think for me at least that I would out shapeshifting of self, in the same box as the illusion of other things.

No wait thats not right. Self and other things yes... shapshifting "spiritually" into animals... no.

Erm, so what are you trying to tell me?

To be honest, I sometimes am equally unsure!

I have deliberately altered my facial features, or rather have put myself into the mindset whereby this can be done. It's called transmogrification (what a bloody mouthful!) and is sometimes one of the attractions at spiritualist churches. As a sort of voyeuristic thing I suppose.

It is not something I am in the habit of doing, but I do on occasion use it with a mirror to enable me to go back to other times/people/places. It's a strange experience and not scary, but it can be tiring. It's not done lightly either.

As to having it "done to" one? At times I "change" - unexpectedly, and it can scare the living daylights out of anyone who doesn't know what the hell is happening! This invariably accompanies a Telling.

Vert's had that happen to him - which as you can imagine completely freaked us both out

I've had it happen to me a few times which Vert got used to seeing - doesn't happen now nearly as much - maybe there was need for it which has lessened now.

Thanks Tas.
Now the mirror thing (if it's the same) i use to go back in time but always to people. Didn't know this came under the transmog banner though. Sometimes it takes me ages to get my eyebrows to come down again!

Re. having it done, any idea why it happens?

Not a scooby!

Sorry that was really badly put!

Ok.. Wolvie asked



NOT the physical. Transmogblahblah... is physical, or at least it is appearence, Wolvie was asking about the spiritual (astral) move from oneself into "other". Doesnt matter what that other is, river, rock, dog.

Thats not the same thing as the change of physical appearance, be that to make yourself invisable, visable, hide a broken object.

There is a difference between becoming an astral bird and nipping easily through a busy shopping centre.

He was very specific about the "not physical" bit.

OK now i really am going to show my ignorance. (just a quick detour from the spiritual to the physical sorry Wolvie) This becoming invisible or changing form on the physical (not just facial traits), does anyone claim to actually do that?

Sure. Its not really invisible, its a shift in perceptions and there are PLENTY of people on here use it.

[quote=Xalle,Jun 7 2008, 10:30 PM]
Im not sure that I woul class them as the same thing at all. I dont think for me at least that I would out shapeshifting of self, in the same box as the illusion of other things.

No wait thats not right. Self and other things yes... shapshifting "spiritually" into animals... no.

[/quote]

Erm, so what are you trying to tell me?

[/quote]



Sorry that was really badly put!

Ok.. Wolvie asked

[quote]No, not the physical but Spiritual 

How many of the Witches on UKP use this particular Crafting to aid them ? 
[/quote]

NOT the physical. Transmogblahblah... is physical, or at least it is appearence, Wolvie was asking about the spiritual (astral) move from oneself into "other". Doesnt matter what that other is, river, rock, dog.

Thats not the same thing as the change of physical appearance, be that to make yourself invisable, visable, hide a broken object.

There is a difference between becoming an astral bird and nipping easily through a busy shopping centre.

He was very specific about the "not physical" bit.

[/quote]

Physical transmogrification is the stuff of myth i.e. werewolves and vampires, which is why Wolvie put a after the statement. As I said in post #11:

[QUOTE]There are two basic forms of shapeshifting technique. That which involves OBE or bilocation applies to spiritual journeying in the form of one's totem. Examples are the Hamatsas of the Kwakiutl tribe and the shaman/berserker trads of the Baltic and Eastern Europe. This advanced form of deep trancing first involves a period of isolation in the wilderness, where the adept is able regress to a state of pure animal instinct. Traditional costumes and masks are usually worn to enhance the synthesis. Once that is achieved, the adepts gather at a suitable sacred site to complete the trancing through rigorous ritual dance. The Upper Bavarian and Black Forest Perchta walk is a survivor of this ancient tradition in Southern Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchta[/QUOTE]

This is not physical transmogrification, rather, an altered state of one's own consciousness to that of their totem. That means one sees oneself as that creature.

[QUOTE]The second basic form of shapeshifting involves telepathic projection- that can be used to elude, deceive, or beguile an observer. Also known in popular modern witchcraft as "transmogrification". [/QUOTE]

Note, I did not say "make invisible" rather, elude from being noticed. Depends on the situation what form I use, or simply blend in.

Are we seriously going to do this? Are we REALLY going to pick holes in what people are saying because they dont use the same words as you do?




I didnt say you did, and if you looked at my response to Woozle you would have seen that I said it is about a shift in perception rather than "real" invisibility.

I think... THINK we agree, that they are two seperate things.

Yes Quasi, I can relate to that.

I come from a pretty rough Town in which I have had some scraps in the past, I have moved away from the wretched place now but I still visit on occasion & I use *my* particular method as a safety construct

Shapeshifting isnt something I usually do Consciously, it has happened to me on several occassions though. I do and always have had a very good connection to my Animal Nature as well as always having a very good relationship to other Animals, both Domestic and Wild! You see evidence of this in other Posts Ive made.
Firstly I have spent a lot of time in various Animal Forms in Meditation, these are with my Power (Totem) Animals.
On one occassion during a very deep Healing Trance, in the company of 2 Witches, I also went through a series of Transformations, witnessed by them to some extent, which concerned but fascinated them.
I want to stress at this point that as a Spiritual Healer extensive experience, this sort of thing is similiar to Channeling Healing Energy or even Spirits to assist in my Healing work, i often have Power Animals assisting me with this, so is very Natural for me and I remain in Conscious Control at all times, only choosing to take a back seat and Observe.
On this occassion though I went through a total transformation into a Wolf, from the feet up, the energies were incredible, I could feel things moving in my body, from outside I dont think I underwent any Physical Changes though my friends did look concerned, they were conscious of something happening, they just werent sure what.
However when the energy reached my head, I suddenly became aware something was very wrong, the Wolf working through me was either Ravenous or Rabid!
I didnt like this and decided at this point to take back control, but the Wolf resisted and I had a struggle with it!
Eventually I won, but I was totally Knackered!
I later associated the experience with my new girlfriend, another Witch, she was consciously working with Wolf Spirits a lot, they also work with me often, which is probably why I realised there was something wrong.
She turned out to be Bolemic and a Speed (drug) Abuser, she was also going through a lot of emotional issues, I wasnt aware of this at the time, as we were new to each other.
I suspect it was a cry for help from her Wolf Spirits to me!
Anway that got sorted eventually.
On other occassions i have partially changed, these occassions used required me to in order to help a situation developing around me.
On one occassion at school, it was Sports Day and I was walking up the field having just finished an event, a friend of mine was jogging towards me to his next event, I was suddenly urged to look up, as I did I saw a Javelin being blown off course and heading straight at us! I rugby tackled my friend and the Javelin landed 3 '' away from my leg. This may not seem that unusual, but I wasnt wearing my glasses and would normally have had no chance of seeing the Javelin, which I saw with perfect Clarity, this was the Eagle working through me.
Another occassion there was an accident in a Garage Workshop I worked at, this involved a car falling front (engine) end onto a mechanic, which would have crushed him, I say would have because it didnt reach him, I was standing near by, saw what was going to happen and without thinking just held the front of the car, he crawled out and I let go, CRASH!
It wasnt until after this we both looked at each other, in a 'what the hell??' sort of way. Obviously under normal circumstances I cant do this sort of thing! Bear Spirit.
Obviously, I dont speak of these sorts of things often!
My training if any, to improve these sorts of abilities, comes from me being mainly in close proximity to various Animals and associating with them as though they are Human, I guess, I basically assume they understand me, is the easiest way of putting it!
I have worked in Zoos to get to know the Physical Counterparts of my Power Animals better, and had some very humbling experiences as a result.

Oh thank god nobody had disagreed with you on that Q! Otherwise i was going to have to ask them for proof .

Eluding being noticed seems a bit less weird than using invisible however you frame invisible.
When i was playing soft air regularly i was, when i wanted to be, exceptionally good (blows own trumpet here) at creeping up on people. OK physically i was good at it, i'm patient and slow and read the land well and make use of cover and it's only a game so there's no stress but so many times i'm sure it was more of a mental thing. The same with counting coup on animals as i scribbled about on one of me blogs recently, you will yourself not to be seen/noticed to a frighteningly impossible degree. I've ony ever done this in these two contexts so wouldn't know how to go about it in a city or shopping precinct and i'm not sure exactly how i do it.
Is this something similar or am i on the wrong track altogether? I can't say i ever went into a trance but, especially creeping up on deer, the concentration was intense.

Yes, stealth, like evasion and diversion is another tactical use of the art. No, trancing is more for spiritual journeying. Approaching a person or animal with subtlety involves communication on a purely subliminal level, namely through the instincts. You are basically communicating with your quarry through a diffusion of bodily charge patterns and pheromone signatures intended to give a certain impression- or perhaps even masking their impressionability. If you will remember, a while back, someone mentioned in a thread, how powerful the effect of smell is in memory. This is especially true in the synthesis of mental imagery. People, like animals, whether they realize it or not , are very sensitive to pheromone signatures projected by intense emotion. This is often why places where violent death occurred, tend to be perceived as "having a bad vibe" to them. Such powerful signatures are not easily erased. Also why urine and blood make the potential ingredients of a spell. Did you know that these skills also play an important role in the Ninja arts?

I'm pretty good at blending with the background. I can walk through a crowd of people and no one notices. It can be a useful thing sometimes - it certainly was in younger days anyway in some of the pubs we used to frequent! I'm also a very quiet walker and the number of times I've scared people who didn't know I was right behind them

In a sense I suppose it is invisibility but obviously not in the Invisible Man style.