Recently on another forum a couple of members have raised a few issues with regards to how those who follow the Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca prefer the traditions to be referred to.

Question one, for those of the Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wiccan traditions do you find the terms derogatory and/or insulting, if so why and what would you prefer?

Question two, has anyone heard of the term British Traditional Wicca being used to denote Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca?

Storm Raven

Dear Stormraven,



A purely personal view - I don't think it really matters. If I'm going to feel insulted by someone, it's much more likely to be due to their attitudes than their terminology - at least initially . I wouldn't find either of the above derogatory in themselves.



It's not one I'd use myself as the infamous "B-word" arouses strong reactions in some quarters . Various forms of words have been used over the years to distinguish the longer established forms of Wicca from those deriving from other sources, but what particular phrases refer to really depends on who's using them and in what context. IME, identity within the older forms of Wicca is more a tribal phenomenon than one particularly influenced by terminology.

If Pagans are courteous to each other regardless of Traditions, then there's no reason for offense being taken unless people feel like breaking furniture over each other for the fun of it.

BB,

John Macintyre

Not insulted at all.



Yes, it's used quite often on American lists to denote Alexandrian or Gardnerian Wicca. Rather confusingly BTW in the UK usually refers to Traditional or Cochranian Witchcraft.

Thank you both Rhiannon and John MacIntyre, for the information and clarification as to where and what traditions it is usually used to describe.

I agree with you totally John, if all Pagans are polite, show tolerance and respect for each others traditions then there won't be any problems, we just have the problem that all faiths suffer, there will always be some won't/can't play nicely with others.

The parties who brought this up on the other forum stated that BTW was used as and by the followers of both Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca as a standard description for themselves, because the members of those traditions found the prior terms to be derogatory and insulting towards them.

Storm Raven

John and Rhiannon

Thank you

I wish I had had this Feedback 3 weeks ago. these same People also recon you should spell Wicca as Wica


thanks for bring this up on here Stormraven Hun it is nice to beable to discuss this rationaly

Mojie

Hi Mojie

There is probably confusion as the term Gardnerian may originally have been meant as an insult by those claiming the traditional/hereditary/my great granny initiated me type of witchcraft, many of whom suddenly appeared (as if by magic!) after Gardner had begun publicising Wicca. As insults go it's a pretty poor one, whatever flaws Gardner may have had as a person, the magical and spiritual system publicised by him is a very good one, so to be named for him isn't so terrible.

Wicca/ Wica - Gardner spelt it both ways. I wouldn't be surprised, given how terrible he was at spelling, if other variations on it don't pop up in his private letters and writings. Anyone out there got any clues?

Rhiannon

I have seen it spelt as Wica but always assumed it was a spelling mistake. Wicca (masculine), Wicce (feminine), pronounced Witcha and Witch

Rhiannon, at least one of the parties who are claiming Gardnerian and Alexandrian to be derogatory and insulting is according to his own claims a 3rd degree Wiccan of the Gardnerian tradition who was initiated into a coven that can trace it's lineage directly back to Gerald Gardner.

I've no problem with how people wish to spell Wicca/Wica it's like the term magic/magick or what people call themselves, it's down to personal preference.

Stormraven

As can all Gardnerian covens - that's why they're Gardnerian As you say, people can call themselves whatever they like, but I've never heard of any modern day Gardnerians being upset by the term until today. Perhaps you could pm me the name of the forum so I could have a wander over?

A quick google shows that the person who thought up the insult was Robert Cochrane (a non Gardnerian).

Rhiannon

As to the spelling of Wica/Wicca I've seen some argue that Gardner spelt it with one c in the majority of his writings (haven't read all myself and certainly not going to go and see how many times each spelling was used) so that's why some use it, plus it's to differentiate themselves (lineaged Wiccans) from the home schooled Llewellyn wicca folk.

As to BTW I was confused at first because i had always heard it used for British Traditional Witchcraft, but not too long after that saw it being used as British Traditional Wicca (to encompass both Gardnerian and Alexandrian lineages)

I can see the point in clarifying the terminology used, since there is a lot of confusion at times (mainly from our American friends) as to just what BTW is and what Wicca/wicca/Wica/wica is. I also understand what the person who you are referring to from the other forum was saying, I didn't see them as being insulting or trolling in any way despite them getting pounced on by mods and members there...

Dear Rhiannon,



Good point. I'd forgotten that one used to do the rounds.



Aye, it's amazing what magic can achieve sometimes .

BB,

John Macintyre

Herne hun

my probs with these people was in RL not on the forum
having that theirs is the only proper witchcraft and wicca shoved down me for an hour made me want to know the real truth not their version. The fact they continued it online just pushed me and others a little over the edge

I am a very tollerent person

Mojie

Herne, I've not accused or meant to imply that the parties on the other forum are trolling, if I have any issues with the behaviour of people on any forum then the moderators of that forum would be notified as necessary.

I've just wanted to independently clarify the use of the term BTW and whether the opinions expressed elsewhere were common, I would not wish to use terms to description for a tradition that were generally considered an insult by the practitioners of that tradition.

Storm Raven

Names and labels - labels and names.

A rose by any other...

I've come across BTW generally used across the pond to describe Gardnerian or Alexandrian Wicca.

When I was Wiccan (Gardnerian), I never came across any Wiccan who objected to the term 'Gardnerian' or 'Alexandrian' in the UK - it seemed to me to be the preferred descriptions. However, I haven't been Wiccan for some years, and I would regard Rhiannon and John as authorities on the subject.

I have to agree with Rhiannon's post. My liniage can be traced to Doreen Valiente, but after she left Gardner to form her own coven. In the '80s Jim Hodgkinson, from Mold added some "traditional" pagan rituals for the main Sabbats. He got these from a group he joined in Yorkshire. The coven then became a joining of Gardinarian and Traditional practice. Today Triple Moon have made lots of additions to the BoS handed down to us. members have added their own rites, poems etc. I think this is the practice of most covens these days.

I'm another initiated wiccan, and I also don't object to being referred to as Gardnerian... it is what I am after all, being in a coven that can trace it's line back to Gerald Gardner

I think it's interesting what Cerridwen said about making additions and coven members adding in their own poems and rites to the BoS - covens do evolve, and each member brings their own ideas and puts their own spin on the rituals that they write. That is certainly the way that my coven works, we all contribute in our own way. Or in my case, try to lol

In our group, the core BoS is unchanged, and we keep additions and variations separately. That way we know what has been handed down, and what has been added.

Rhiannon