What are demons? Do you believe in them?
As an ex xian I have my old mindset understandng to contend with (evil allies of Satan yadayadayada) and now don't think I believe in them. BUt reading the Farrar's Witches Bible they mention the circle as protection against such things.

What do you think?

Ed

Well, I don't believe in the Christian concept of demons. To the ancient Greeks a demon (daimon I think) could be good, bad, or neutral and Plato refers to his demon of inspiration.

It's a bit like the dictionary definition of a weed. A weed is a plant you don't want growing where it happens to be growing.

A demon is an elemental being that you would rather they were somewhere else.
If you're pals with them then they're fine - by yourdefinition. Maybe not by other people's.

Xians, of course have notoriously narrow definitions of demons.

Nice definition!

For me, it is what is otherwise called angelic energy, sometimes manifest. As usual, and as suggested above, the negative or positive attribution may be personal, experiential or particular to the work. I don't, so far, have any reason to call any aspect of this solely evil or good.

Hmm an interesting one this, Ive never liked the term as it implies that there is some form of inherent good and evil built into the system, which I just dont see as the case. However thats not to say that there arent malevolent energies out there.

The circle is a standard form of protection as most of you know, used to prevent unwanted energies from interfering(sp?) with the working at hand, also workings of any kind attract all sorts on the other planes.

So Demons as evil beings no not in my opinion. But as a name for malevolant energies sure why not

Don't know about 'demons'. I've come across evil daimonai, or elementals, or wights - whatever one wishes to call them. Things that frightened the pants off me and I wanted to get away from asap.

Good/evill, supportive/negative - all are surely subjective, coloured by the thoughts, wishes, desires ( a totally different thing!) cultural memes, taught fears/aspirations of the individual?

Here be demons? Or angels? Each to their own. We seek out what we are able to deal with at any given time, despite protestations to the contrary. And that is, generally, what the universe allows us. (Although sometimes the Old Ones decide differently.)

Trust.

And the difference between evil and malevolent?

malevolent: wishing or appearing to wish evil to others

i always said that i didnt believe in them but i do believe in the dweller of the abyss- coronzon- i guess u wud say he's a demon?


BB

ED you sligtly missed the bit about Evil BEINGS... as opposed to Energies.
Also semantics I know and probably petty too but wishing evil upon another is so NOT the same as being inherently evil. If it was i would be so screwed....

At the risk of upsetting the apple cart... I do believe such entities exist. They have been known by many names and guises throughout time and accross cultural barriers. The Egyptians, the Canaanites and other semetic peoples, the peoples of Africa, practitioners of Voodoo and so many others i can't think of them all have recognised demonic presence in one form or another throughout their history, independantly of Christianity.
The only difference is that Christianity labelled them differently and considers them in direct opposition to Jehovah, i.e. the age old fight of good and evil.
On the face of this planet there are kind, gentle and loving people and there are cruel, violent and insensitive people and then there's the majority somewhere in between. Why should the spirit realm be any different?
Most entities are either good or relatively harmless however I think there are also those that are far from benevolent or safe to associate with. Demonic is a label for these few just as Angelic is a label for their opposite. That's how I look at it anyway.
If you're interested in reading more the Goetia and Lemegeton are worth a read (Lesser Keys of Solomon) and if you wanted to invest the time in researching further you can find some of the demonic entities listed and described here in other cultures by their description, attributes and charecteristic traits but known by other names.
Hope that's some help. Just mho anyways.
BBs Lantern_Light

I dunno, I think you kinda kicked the apple cart over.

"To what end, for what purpose" is something I always consider before deciding that anything, regarless of the historical ramblings, is likely or not.

Why would there be "evil" beings? What purpose do they have, WHY do they exist?

If the human race had not evolved, what exactly would they be doing right now? No seriously, thats something you need to consider. What would they do if humans never were or died out? What purpose would they serve? Making a tiger really pissed off? Scaring the bejesus out of a sparrow? MAN makes "demons" because its an easy way to shift responsibility or explain something you dont understand, just like gods.

As for evil or negative energy, negative I can live with, evil or malevolent, nope. Energy cant "be" anything. It has no concept of good or evil, right or wrong.



MUCH more likely. Just a being, a thing that exists and does its thang, as they say. Much like a dog. If you annoy it, it'll bite, if not, it wont, doesnt make the dog evil or good, just makes it a dog.

Just a question. Have any of you ever worked "The Goetia" or any other form of Goetic magick? Just wondered. If so what were the results?

It is really differant to Theurgic.

There are manifestations of life-energy parasitism, but whether they are evil or not- a matter of interpretation. They may seem to form some kind of collective motive, or a singular predatory entity. In the balance between entropy and enthalpy, I'm sure all of these things have their function. Who is to say sentience is restricted to biological constructs? Nature is essentially opportunistic.

I agree with Moonhunter although I wouldn't call all of them land wights.
Although I wouldn't call many totally evil, almost all have had other personality traits that weren't the grr smite be nasty commonly associated with them. I say almost because some i've encountered have come pretty close or I've decided that clearing out quick before finding out more was the healthiest option.

I do think that they are not evil, but when your speaking or dealing with the more powerful beings its hard to find something else in them.

Some of the Land Alfs/wights can be placated (bribed) into liking you with if you genuinely want a relationship that isn't using or manipulating them.

So what do folks think of the 'Amityville horror' type of thing?

Mass hysteria is one possibility, as is the inadvertent "summoning" of nasties due to collective thoughts about that very thing! Then of course there's our old pal the poltergeist.

Well, theres two things there. The first was the killings. I very much doubt there was anything "made" him kill his family. He was hearing voices and massacred them because of it, allegedly.

After that... I dunno. I would say in a house where an entire family was wiped out in such a violent way, something, even if it is just sorrow and anger is bound to have been and may still be lingering.

Most of the stories about that place were made up to promote a book...

Yeah Ive worked with the Goetia. PM me if your intrested.

I dont beleive in Evil, never have, Ive never come across any Demons, etc, as in Evil Spirits. Ive come across some Mischeivious ones, they are bit like spoilt children.
Ive aso come acros people claiming to be attacked Demons, etc.
They were all pretty messed up Individuals though, I sent them to their Doctors, beleiving they'd benefit more from mental Health Treatment, than the Sort of Healing I was offering!
Ive had some frights from Nature Spirits making contact, but they just needed time and a shift in my perception.
As for Poltergeists, they always seem to be attatched to people suffering from some form of mental / emotional / Spiritual Imbalance, which is why so many are associated with teenagers, they are not fully formed mature beings yet. Thats not me having a go at teenagers, just a biological statement about their hormones, etc changing them from children to adults and all the associated mental / emotional / physical & Spiritual changes they are going through!

Real tough question to be honest. Certainly don't believe in the red skinned, horned and bewinged type. Again, maybe they might be 'Energy Entities' or something along those lines. I think they appear far too many times in global mythology to be falacy.

Again it all boils down to perception, and experience. How you percieve said entity, and your experience before this point will warrant what you call 'em, if that makes sense?

I agree about the 'Energy Entities' or 'Thought Forms' idea, it is possible for things to take on a sort of form of their own, seperate from the Individual who is usually unconsciously manifesting them, like the Poltergeist for example.
'Unrational Fear' I think is the biggest problem, combined with other Imbalances and Social Conditioning, eg a belief in Demons and Evil.
So fo example combine these elements: a strict Catholic Upbringing, a lack of rational answers, a teenager going through the worst Hormonal changes (Physical, Sexual, Emotional, Mental, Spiritual) lacking proper guidance (eg lives in the Bible Belt in USA) from outside sources, beleives in Evil, Satan, Demons, etc, strong dose of Fear and I suspect you are going to generate something like a Poltergeist or possibly a Demonic Possesion (by their definitations).
During Healing I have come across some forms of dark parasite type energy, they look like big black worms or spiders, though i suspect I give them that form in order to make them easier to handle.