There are a few shamans on here and I know thyat they are all inspired /led by different entities in their journeying.
My question is this - what do you all use your shamanic experiences FOR?
Healing others, self knowledge, healing self? Entertainment? (Sorry - I know that one was cheeky!)
And I'll throw in another question, what do you all use for trancework? Drumming, drugs, dance? Or is it different every time?
Just interested....
Full Version: Question For Shamans
Hi Honeywitch,
what do I use my Shamanic Experiences for?
I can only answer for myself, I guess you are asking about the Journeying?
They taught me a lot about creativity, a lot about myself and how to solve my own problems as well as learning about my strengths and weakness's, they are mainly used for my own self development, not just Spiritually, but in all aspects of my life. I learnt how to make Magikal Tools and all that involves, I learnt how to Commune with Nature and its Animals especially, they lead me to ask questions and seek answers. They also taught me a lot about Healing, myself and others. There is more, but that is the short answer I guess.
Entertainment? yes, that was also part of it!
That was a long time ago though, I dont Journey much anymore, if the Spirits want my help now, they tend to come to me! When I did it was twice daily, for about 7 years.
My main form was a Breathing & Rocking Meditation, until I took flight. Though I often had a Drumming Tape on at the time and occassionally a real drummer, dance and Kung Fu Katas (Forms is correct term in this context) also worked at times.
what do I use my Shamanic Experiences for?
I can only answer for myself, I guess you are asking about the Journeying?
They taught me a lot about creativity, a lot about myself and how to solve my own problems as well as learning about my strengths and weakness's, they are mainly used for my own self development, not just Spiritually, but in all aspects of my life. I learnt how to make Magikal Tools and all that involves, I learnt how to Commune with Nature and its Animals especially, they lead me to ask questions and seek answers. They also taught me a lot about Healing, myself and others. There is more, but that is the short answer I guess.
Entertainment? yes, that was also part of it!
That was a long time ago though, I dont Journey much anymore, if the Spirits want my help now, they tend to come to me! When I did it was twice daily, for about 7 years.
My main form was a Breathing & Rocking Meditation, until I took flight. Though I often had a Drumming Tape on at the time and occassionally a real drummer, dance and Kung Fu Katas (Forms is correct term in this context) also worked at times.
I tend to use journeying to discover things about nature, the world, our connections with these things, the gods, the wights, and so on. I don't use it for entertainment (just my personal choice). In a sense they are about, as CS says, self development, but mainly it's a curiosity about the nature of things.
I use breathing techniques because drumming annoys me and I find it distracting. I don't dance either.
I use breathing techniques because drumming annoys me and I find it distracting. I don't dance either.
I reckon shamanism, modern anyway, is part of or similar to witchcraft as I know it. I have to be careful in interpretation of this; the witch as an individual is not usually involved in spiritual intercession for the community but a witch, an established craft family or some covens will deal with the magickal forces in and around their community, but not specifically in the sense of managing a tribal religion. Again, they may be or become involved in the fate of those around them if it impinges on them and theirs or if, sometimes, requested. This is a narrow definition but in that purpose they may use what are recognised as shamanism or similar practise. But the tools vary as does the role and purpose.
If you mean more generally, trance work and journeying for purpose of spiritual or 'other realm' seeking of knowledge, manipulating patterns and so on then most witches I know can be classed in this way! Using some form of psychic intervention they will interpret events and form intent toward a resolution.
Depends on definition, hope that doesn't seem to pedantic. Personally I use trance and meditation to focus on the balance about the situation and add my tuppence worth if it is required. My own intervention tends to be specific to witches I am working with, sometimes the more general local magickal community whether associated directly or not, but not general community.
I do know an extraordinary young woman of 30 who is not associated with any magickal path but dreams and astral travels at will, sees courses of action to look after her community in both real world and symbolic terms and takes them with total self belief.
I met her 'by chance' when I first moved up this way and only a couple of people had any idea of my beliefs and life - I was making faces at her child in a pushchair (at the local shops) and she told me she knew I was a witch from her dream travels about the place and just wanted to say hi! She told me she has never read a book on witchcraft or anything similar and has no interest in it, just an ability and a job to do. She is otherwise a housewife who grew up here, went to school here, married and remained here. She was what I would call a true shaman.
If you mean more generally, trance work and journeying for purpose of spiritual or 'other realm' seeking of knowledge, manipulating patterns and so on then most witches I know can be classed in this way! Using some form of psychic intervention they will interpret events and form intent toward a resolution.
Depends on definition, hope that doesn't seem to pedantic. Personally I use trance and meditation to focus on the balance about the situation and add my tuppence worth if it is required. My own intervention tends to be specific to witches I am working with, sometimes the more general local magickal community whether associated directly or not, but not general community.
I do know an extraordinary young woman of 30 who is not associated with any magickal path but dreams and astral travels at will, sees courses of action to look after her community in both real world and symbolic terms and takes them with total self belief.
I met her 'by chance' when I first moved up this way and only a couple of people had any idea of my beliefs and life - I was making faces at her child in a pushchair (at the local shops) and she told me she knew I was a witch from her dream travels about the place and just wanted to say hi! She told me she has never read a book on witchcraft or anything similar and has no interest in it, just an ability and a job to do. She is otherwise a housewife who grew up here, went to school here, married and remained here. She was what I would call a true shaman.
I use journeying to heal and be healed, to seek knowledge and to occasionally address matters of spiritual attack (doesn't really happen anywhere near as often as people think it does. But when it DOES, I can and do work on the problem through journeying).
But actually, sometimes it CAN be quite entertaining. Certain entities I am familiar with in the otherworlds have a great sense of humour.
BB
Mike
But actually, sometimes it CAN be quite entertaining. Certain entities I am familiar with in the otherworlds have a great sense of humour.
BB
Mike
This is pretty interesting;
Re:Evolution, Terrence McKenna
QUOTE
"If the truth can be told so as
to be understood it will be believed"
Human history represents such a radical break
with the natural systems of biological
organisation that preceded it that it must be
the response to a kind of attractor or dwell
point that lies ahead in the temporal dimension.
Persistently western religions have
integrated into their theologies the notion of
a kind of end of the world. And I think that a
lot of psychedelic experimentation sort
of confirms this intuition. I mean it isn't
going to happen according to any of the scenarios
of orthodox religion, but the basic intuition
that the universe seeks closure in a kind of Omega
point of transcendence is confirmed. It's almost
as though this object in hyperspace, glittering
in hyperspace, throws off reflections of itself,
which actually ricochet into the past, illuminating
this mystic, inspiring that saint or visionary,
and that out of these fragmentary glimpses of
Eternity we can build a kind of a map of not only
the past universe and the evolutionary ingression
into novelty, but a kind of map of the future.
This is what Shamanism has always been about.
A Shaman is someone who has been to the
end It is someone who knows how the world really
works, and knowing how the world really works,
means to have risen outside, above, beyond the
dimensions of ordinary spacetime and cozooistry
and actually seen the wiring under the board:
stepped outside the confines of learned culture
and learned and embedded language into the
domain of Wittgenstein called the unspeakable,
the Transcendental presence of the Other, which
can be sectioned in various ways to yield Systems
of Knowledge which can be brought back into
ordinary social space for the good of the
Community. So in the context of 90% of human
culture, the Shaman has been the Agent of
Evolution, because the Shaman learns techniques
to go between ordinary reality and the domain of
the ideas: this higher dimensional continuum that
is somehow parallel to us, available to us and yet
ordinarily occluded to us by cultural convention
out of the fear of the Mystery, I believe, and what
the Shamans are, are people who have been able to
de-condition themselves from the community's
instinctual distrust of the Mystery, and go into
this bewildering Higher Dimension, and gain
Knowledge, recover the jewel lost at the Beginning
of Time, save souls, cure, commune with the
Ancestors and so forth and so on.
Shamanism is not a religion - its a set of
techniques, and the Principle Technique is the
use of psychedelic plants.What psychedelics do is
they dissolve boundaries; and in the presence
of dissolved boundaries One cannot continue to
close One's eyes to the ruination of the Earth,
the poisoning of the Seas and the
consequences of two thousand years of
unchallenged Dominator culture,
based on Monotheism, hatred of Nature,
suppression of the Female and so forth and so on.
So, what Shamans have to do is act as exemplars
by making this cosmic journey to the domain of
the Gaian Ideas, and then bringing them back in
the form of Art, to the struggle to Save the World.
The Planet has a kind of intelligence, that
it can actually Open a Channel of communication
with an individual human being. The message that
Nature sends is transform your language through a
synergy between Electronic culture and the
Psychedelic Imagination; a synergy between
Dance and Idea; a synergy between Understanding
and Intuition, and dissolve the boundaries
which your culture has sanctioned between you.
Become part of this Gaian Supermind.
I mean I think it's fairly
profound, it's fairly Apocalyptic. History is
ending, I mean we are to be the generation that
witnesses the Revelation of the purpose of the
Cosmos. History is the shock wave of the Eschaton.
History is the shock wave of Eschatology. And
what this means for those of us who will live
through this transition into Hyperspace is that
we will be privileged to see the greatest release
of Concressed Change probably since the birth of
the Universe. The twentieth Century is the shudder
that announces the approaching Cataracts
of Time over which our Species and the destiny
of this Planet is about to be swept.
"If the truth can be told so as to be
understood it will be believed".
The emphasis in House music and rave culture
on physiologically compatible rhythms, and
this sort of thing, is really the
re-discovery of the art of Natural Magic with
sound. That sound, properly understood,
especially percussive sound, can actually change
neurological states, and large groups of people
getting together in the presence of this kind of
music are creating a telepathic community, a bonding,
that hopefully will be strong enough to carry the
Vision out into the main stream of Society. I
think the Youth culture that is emerging in the
nineties is an End of the Millennium culture that
is actually summing up Western Civilisation, and
pointing us in an entirely different direction; that
we are going to arrive in the Third Millennium in
the middle of an Archaic revival which will mean
a revival of these physiologically empowering rhythm
signatures, a new Art, a new Social Vision, a
new relationship to Nature, to Feminism, to Ego -
all of these things are taking hold,
and not a Moment too Soon.
to be understood it will be believed"
Human history represents such a radical break
with the natural systems of biological
organisation that preceded it that it must be
the response to a kind of attractor or dwell
point that lies ahead in the temporal dimension.
Persistently western religions have
integrated into their theologies the notion of
a kind of end of the world. And I think that a
lot of psychedelic experimentation sort
of confirms this intuition. I mean it isn't
going to happen according to any of the scenarios
of orthodox religion, but the basic intuition
that the universe seeks closure in a kind of Omega
point of transcendence is confirmed. It's almost
as though this object in hyperspace, glittering
in hyperspace, throws off reflections of itself,
which actually ricochet into the past, illuminating
this mystic, inspiring that saint or visionary,
and that out of these fragmentary glimpses of
Eternity we can build a kind of a map of not only
the past universe and the evolutionary ingression
into novelty, but a kind of map of the future.
This is what Shamanism has always been about.
A Shaman is someone who has been to the
end It is someone who knows how the world really
works, and knowing how the world really works,
means to have risen outside, above, beyond the
dimensions of ordinary spacetime and cozooistry
and actually seen the wiring under the board:
stepped outside the confines of learned culture
and learned and embedded language into the
domain of Wittgenstein called the unspeakable,
the Transcendental presence of the Other, which
can be sectioned in various ways to yield Systems
of Knowledge which can be brought back into
ordinary social space for the good of the
Community. So in the context of 90% of human
culture, the Shaman has been the Agent of
Evolution, because the Shaman learns techniques
to go between ordinary reality and the domain of
the ideas: this higher dimensional continuum that
is somehow parallel to us, available to us and yet
ordinarily occluded to us by cultural convention
out of the fear of the Mystery, I believe, and what
the Shamans are, are people who have been able to
de-condition themselves from the community's
instinctual distrust of the Mystery, and go into
this bewildering Higher Dimension, and gain
Knowledge, recover the jewel lost at the Beginning
of Time, save souls, cure, commune with the
Ancestors and so forth and so on.
Shamanism is not a religion - its a set of
techniques, and the Principle Technique is the
use of psychedelic plants.What psychedelics do is
they dissolve boundaries; and in the presence
of dissolved boundaries One cannot continue to
close One's eyes to the ruination of the Earth,
the poisoning of the Seas and the
consequences of two thousand years of
unchallenged Dominator culture,
based on Monotheism, hatred of Nature,
suppression of the Female and so forth and so on.
So, what Shamans have to do is act as exemplars
by making this cosmic journey to the domain of
the Gaian Ideas, and then bringing them back in
the form of Art, to the struggle to Save the World.
The Planet has a kind of intelligence, that
it can actually Open a Channel of communication
with an individual human being. The message that
Nature sends is transform your language through a
synergy between Electronic culture and the
Psychedelic Imagination; a synergy between
Dance and Idea; a synergy between Understanding
and Intuition, and dissolve the boundaries
which your culture has sanctioned between you.
Become part of this Gaian Supermind.
I mean I think it's fairly
profound, it's fairly Apocalyptic. History is
ending, I mean we are to be the generation that
witnesses the Revelation of the purpose of the
Cosmos. History is the shock wave of the Eschaton.
History is the shock wave of Eschatology. And
what this means for those of us who will live
through this transition into Hyperspace is that
we will be privileged to see the greatest release
of Concressed Change probably since the birth of
the Universe. The twentieth Century is the shudder
that announces the approaching Cataracts
of Time over which our Species and the destiny
of this Planet is about to be swept.
"If the truth can be told so as to be
understood it will be believed".
The emphasis in House music and rave culture
on physiologically compatible rhythms, and
this sort of thing, is really the
re-discovery of the art of Natural Magic with
sound. That sound, properly understood,
especially percussive sound, can actually change
neurological states, and large groups of people
getting together in the presence of this kind of
music are creating a telepathic community, a bonding,
that hopefully will be strong enough to carry the
Vision out into the main stream of Society. I
think the Youth culture that is emerging in the
nineties is an End of the Millennium culture that
is actually summing up Western Civilisation, and
pointing us in an entirely different direction; that
we are going to arrive in the Third Millennium in
the middle of an Archaic revival which will mean
a revival of these physiologically empowering rhythm
signatures, a new Art, a new Social Vision, a
new relationship to Nature, to Feminism, to Ego -
all of these things are taking hold,
and not a Moment too Soon.
Re:Evolution, Terrence McKenna
I have noticed the shamanic type beats of the rave culture and wondered if DJs are the new Shaman, especially as for me, as I first noticed it in relation the group 'The Shamen'. 
But I seriously doubt it!
I think what Mr McKenna says is interesting, though I suspect he gets a bit carried away, especially about the more Apocalyptic stuff, was it written pre Millenium?
But Art is an especially important aspect of Shamanism, sometimes its the only medium open to us to express what we experience, so many Symbols, etc!
Im not sure Drugs were essential to it though, Ive never needed many!
Though I am obviously aware that many Shamanic Cultures do use them a lot, others hardly do! I guess it just depends on how available they are!
But I seriously doubt it!
I think what Mr McKenna says is interesting, though I suspect he gets a bit carried away, especially about the more Apocalyptic stuff, was it written pre Millenium?
But Art is an especially important aspect of Shamanism, sometimes its the only medium open to us to express what we experience, so many Symbols, etc!
Im not sure Drugs were essential to it though, Ive never needed many!
Though I am obviously aware that many Shamanic Cultures do use them a lot, others hardly do! I guess it just depends on how available they are!
I'm going to ask a question on something that i've been wondering about for a while. Sorry at this stage for slightly diverting the thread
Dancing your animals
I'm not a Shaman, never have been, but I do enjoy reading about it a lot and I could never figure out how anyone could relax and set into the mindset to do this.
Every time I've read about it I've just never understood, how someone could get to do it. Do you meditate to relax or dance yourself into a frenzy (likewise, I cn't imagine that either), drum until something clicks? What happens?
By what process do you get over that self perception barrier into theirs or the almalgamation of the two (think this would tie into shapeshifing). By that I mean the awarness of how you sit in your body and how you instinctively work/co-ordinate within it, to abandoning that level of innate self awareness to something so different. No animal is bipedal full time or is bipedal in the same fashion as we are (thinking of Apes here). I can't imagine moving as a quadraped would be that comfortable. Yet people never describe being feeling horrible or exhausted in a bad way. Or even having an aching body afterwards. Something I'd expect if I tried to move as a quatraped.
Thinking about it I feel screamingly uncomfortable, if I ever considered doing it I'd probabally also feel paranoid and just can't imagine being able to just put aside the 'I can't do this' or 'they won't like it' or 'they'll laugh at me'.
On my own path I can relax and immerse myself and let move in the energies but to this degree? Never
Thanks if you can share some light on this.
Dancing your animals
I'm not a Shaman, never have been, but I do enjoy reading about it a lot and I could never figure out how anyone could relax and set into the mindset to do this.
Every time I've read about it I've just never understood, how someone could get to do it. Do you meditate to relax or dance yourself into a frenzy (likewise, I cn't imagine that either), drum until something clicks? What happens?
By what process do you get over that self perception barrier into theirs or the almalgamation of the two (think this would tie into shapeshifing). By that I mean the awarness of how you sit in your body and how you instinctively work/co-ordinate within it, to abandoning that level of innate self awareness to something so different. No animal is bipedal full time or is bipedal in the same fashion as we are (thinking of Apes here). I can't imagine moving as a quadraped would be that comfortable. Yet people never describe being feeling horrible or exhausted in a bad way. Or even having an aching body afterwards. Something I'd expect if I tried to move as a quatraped.
Thinking about it I feel screamingly uncomfortable, if I ever considered doing it I'd probabally also feel paranoid and just can't imagine being able to just put aside the 'I can't do this' or 'they won't like it' or 'they'll laugh at me'.
On my own path I can relax and immerse myself and let move in the energies but to this degree? Never
Thanks if you can share some light on this.
QUOTE(CornishShaman @ Jun 19 2008, 11:43 AM)
I have noticed the shamanic type beats of the rave culture and wondered if DJs are the new Shaman
I can't think of anything less likely to lead to any kind of spiritual experience than going to a rave. Except, maybe, sitting through a Disney film.
Gryphon, I once tried dancing my animal at a workshop, and as you say, it was uncomfortable, not to mention impossible. Maybe if you're in a deep trance you can remain on two feet but FEEL as though you're moving the way the animal moves. I can certainly imagine wings coming out of my shoulders, no trouble.
To address Honeywitch's questions, I have tried various shamanic techniques with the aim of reaching greater self awareness - I wouldn't think of myself as experienced enough to help other people in any way. I mostly lay on my back with a tape playing (drumming or didgeridoo) and went on an imaginary journey to the lower world or the upper world with the aim of meeting someone who could answer my question.
All very interesting - keep going!
QUOTE(Julai @ Jun 21 2008, 03:39 PM)
Gryphon, I once tried dancing my animal at a workshop, and as you say, it was uncomfortable, not to mention impossible. Maybe if you're in a deep trance you can remain on two feet but FEEL as though you're moving the way the animal moves. I can certainly imagine wings coming out of my shoulders, no trouble.
I think the idea is to dance in a way suggestive of the animal, to help you get into the, ah ha, 'spirit' of things, rather than to actually crawl around on all fours. I should think a fair degree of artistic licence is permissable, given that you are trying to evoke the thing in yourself, more than anything else.
QUOTE(Inverurie Jones @ Jun 22 2008, 08:01 AM)
QUOTE(Julai @ Jun 21 2008, 03:39 PM)
Gryphon, I once tried dancing my animal at a workshop, and as you say, it was uncomfortable, not to mention impossible. Maybe if you're in a deep trance you can remain on two feet but FEEL as though you're moving the way the animal moves. I can certainly imagine wings coming out of my shoulders, no trouble.
I think the idea is to dance in a way suggestive of the animal, to help you get into the, ah ha, 'spirit' of things, rather than to actually crawl around on all fours. I should think a fair degree of artistic licence is permissable, given that you are trying to evoke the thing in yourself, more than anything else.
Actually from what I've read it can frenzied and the animals instincts overlay the persons.
I've read an account of someone who was using a pointy object to represent the pointy parts of their power animal and nearly stabbed another person who was dancing a power animal that predated on the first person's animal. The animals took over and reacted to the other persons proximity.
I'll look that story out for you later. If anyone wants to read that account pm me and I'll send you the name of the book as thats a good example of what can happen.
Thanks for replying Julai, I agree, the trance is the key but how to relax and get past the mental and physical discomfort?
I use journeying for different reasons - to 'touch base', to 'check' on things, and to keep myself up to speed with the skills if I havent used them for a while.
And for the longest time I had no idea that is what I was doing - lol. The joys of being a solitary , and then the joys of the internet - lol.
But in journey I have discovered, and re-discovered an awful lot and its a powerful tool for a witch to have, which is why I describe a witch as someone who can walk both worlds. But I am not a shaman.
The question of how - gawds, thats hard to explain, partly because it does take practice to know how to 'get there' but also because I would have to think hard about how I got there myself in the beginning. Its a bit like explaining to someone why some grammar works and some doesnt - you know it but have trouble explaining it.
But I can say that I knocked myself in journey as an animal and had a sore shoulder for a few days afterwards.
And for the longest time I had no idea that is what I was doing - lol. The joys of being a solitary , and then the joys of the internet - lol.
But in journey I have discovered, and re-discovered an awful lot and its a powerful tool for a witch to have, which is why I describe a witch as someone who can walk both worlds. But I am not a shaman.
The question of how - gawds, thats hard to explain, partly because it does take practice to know how to 'get there' but also because I would have to think hard about how I got there myself in the beginning. Its a bit like explaining to someone why some grammar works and some doesnt - you know it but have trouble explaining it.
But I can say that I knocked myself in journey as an animal and had a sore shoulder for a few days afterwards.
QUOTE(Inverurie Jones @ Jun 21 2008, 12:41 PM)
QUOTE(CornishShaman @ Jun 19 2008, 11:43 AM)
I have noticed the shamanic type beats of the rave culture and wondered if DJs are the new Shaman
I can't think of anything less likely to lead to any kind of spiritual experience than going to a rave. Except, maybe, sitting through a Disney film.
Never seen brother bear then?
Funny It should be mentioned, but I have always thought of Raves as great Shamanic experience instigators.
Nowt more shamanic than dancing yerself into an altered state of conciousness.
Nowt more shamanic than dancing yerself into an altered state of conciousness.
Not handy if you're in a room with lot of sweaty pill-poppers and the music is completely naff... doesn't really do it for me...
QUOTE(Pantheistkeith @ Jun 24 2008, 09:09 AM)
Funny It should be mentioned, but I have always thought of Raves as great Shamanic experience instigators.
Nowt more shamanic than dancing yerself into an altered state of conciousness.
Nowt more shamanic than dancing yerself into an altered state of conciousness.
Me too!
Deerheart
QUOTE(Pantheistkeith @ Jun 24 2008, 08:09 AM)
Funny It should be mentioned, but I have always thought of Raves as great Shamanic experience instigators.
Nowt more shamanic than dancing yerself into an altered state of conciousness.
Nowt more shamanic than dancing yerself into an altered state of conciousness.
Exactly, its just the modern way of doing it. Alright alot of rave music is absolute shyte; But try stuff from the twisted record leabel, there's alot of sense in the voice samples they use; pay particular attention to artists such as Shpongle; Hallucinogen; Celtic Cross; Ok so its more in the psychedelic trance category than what most people cal rave or techno.... but even techno has its place
Lets not forget astral projection either.
OOOh, almost forgot, thre's some great stuff coming out of Israel at the moment too; Moshic, Infected Mushroom..... the list goes on.
Yeah so our ancestors used drums, stuff like that, but again, thats just the best technology available to them at the time. We're simply doing the same thing.
I write alot of what people would rave music, specifically with the spirtual bent on it. Traditional shaman might say he rides the drum. I ride the drum, but I also ride the drum machine. I'm not pissing on tradition, just because its old doesn't make it any less valid than something modern, but we have more tools available to us today to use. We'd be stupid not to.
QUOTE(honeywitch @ Jun 12 2008, 03:39 PM)
There are a few shamans on here and I know thyat they are all inspired /led by different entities in their journeying.
My question is this - what do you all use your shamanic experiences FOR?
Healing others, self knowledge, healing self? Entertainment? (Sorry - I know that one was cheeky!)
And I'll throw in another question, what do you all use for trancework? Drumming, drugs, dance? Or is it different every time?
Just interested....
My question is this - what do you all use your shamanic experiences FOR?
Healing others, self knowledge, healing self? Entertainment? (Sorry - I know that one was cheeky!)
And I'll throw in another question, what do you all use for trancework? Drumming, drugs, dance? Or is it different every time?
Just interested....
I'd guess most shamans (of the Tunguskan breed) have little choice and do what they're told by grandparent animal spirits. Mircea Eliade would have that it involves serving the community as a psychopomp, spiritual mediator and interlocutor.
What do *you* think?
Regards, Peter
QUOTE(Gryphon @ Jun 22 2008, 10:20 AM)
QUOTE(Inverurie Jones @ Jun 22 2008, 08:01 AM)
QUOTE(Julai @ Jun 21 2008, 03:39 PM)
Gryphon, I once tried dancing my animal at a workshop, and as you say, it was uncomfortable, not to mention impossible. Maybe if you're in a deep trance you can remain on two feet but FEEL as though you're moving the way the animal moves. I can certainly imagine wings coming out of my shoulders, no trouble.
I think the idea is to dance in a way suggestive of the animal, to help you get into the, ah ha, 'spirit' of things, rather than to actually crawl around on all fours. I should think a fair degree of artistic licence is permissable, given that you are trying to evoke the thing in yourself, more than anything else.
Actually from what I've read it can frenzied and the animals instincts overlay the persons.
I've read an account of someone who was using a pointy object to represent the pointy parts of their power animal and nearly stabbed another person who was dancing a power animal that predated on the first person's animal. The animals took over and reacted to the other persons proximity.
I'll look that story out for you later. If anyone wants to read that account pm me and I'll send you the name of the book as thats a good example of what can happen.
Thanks for replying Julai, I agree, the trance is the key but how to relax and get past the mental and physical discomfort?
Nudge nudge
Anyone able to answer this?
Dreaming does it for me. In that state when you are about to go to sleep, or about to wake up, you take the dream and direct it.
Loud Bass rhythms don't do it for me - although I enjoy the singing at the Powwows (next one on July 12th!).
Loud Bass rhythms don't do it for me - although I enjoy the singing at the Powwows (next one on July 12th!).
Personally I have never tried to dance my Power Animals awake, jumping around in close proximity to others with 'pointy things on your head' just sounds a stupid idea and an accident waiting to happen! A bit like running round in the dark with a lot of sharp Athames drawn!
When I have made contact with a Power Animal, it has always been very simple, I simply think myself into that Animal, it happens in seconds, no weird contortions or anything!
However in the past whilst doing kung Fu, I have had Power Animals come through, whilst doing a Kata involving them, or more accurately aspects of the Power Animal, I have also had Power Animals come out whilst on a long walk in the country, they dont so much want to dance, more interested in Running or Hunting!
When I have made contact with a Power Animal, it has always been very simple, I simply think myself into that Animal, it happens in seconds, no weird contortions or anything!
However in the past whilst doing kung Fu, I have had Power Animals come through, whilst doing a Kata involving them, or more accurately aspects of the Power Animal, I have also had Power Animals come out whilst on a long walk in the country, they dont so much want to dance, more interested in Running or Hunting!
QUOTE(Gryphon @ Jun 28 2008, 06:55 PM)
QUOTE(Gryphon @ Jun 22 2008, 10:20 AM)
QUOTE(Inverurie Jones @ Jun 22 2008, 08:01 AM)
QUOTE(Julai @ Jun 21 2008, 03:39 PM)
Gryphon, I once tried dancing my animal at a workshop, and as you say, it was uncomfortable, not to mention impossible. Maybe if you're in a deep trance you can remain on two feet but FEEL as though you're moving the way the animal moves. I can certainly imagine wings coming out of my shoulders, no trouble.
I think the idea is to dance in a way suggestive of the animal, to help you get into the, ah ha, 'spirit' of things, rather than to actually crawl around on all fours. I should think a fair degree of artistic licence is permissable, given that you are trying to evoke the thing in yourself, more than anything else.
Actually from what I've read it can frenzied and the animals instincts overlay the persons.
I've read an account of someone who was using a pointy object to represent the pointy parts of their power animal and nearly stabbed another person who was dancing a power animal that predated on the first person's animal. The animals took over and reacted to the other persons proximity.
I'll look that story out for you later. If anyone wants to read that account pm me and I'll send you the name of the book as thats a good example of what can happen.
Thanks for replying Julai, I agree, the trance is the key but how to relax and get past the mental and physical discomfort?
Nudge nudge
Anyone able to answer this?
I think as well this is tied in with work of an ecstatic nature. Almost touching that beastial creature that dwells within all of us, the part that goes back many thousands of years. A bit like devolution maybe, as if all of societies programming falls away, and we return to a much older state of being. Sometimes you do have the distinct feeling of becoming a specific animal, this has happened a few times to me. Other times it's just becomming more bestial in nature.
The way we are now is more due to social conditioning than anything else. The phrase "polite society" springs to mind, and ridding yourself of it's trappings, albeit only temporarily, to disover the swisdom laid burried there.
Umm, Ok guess this will be a long one again. So here go's, In my teaching out in the cold distant world of Siberia, I was taught by and spent alot of time with ( Shaman's ) there are many types, which is something that through translation or the misconception's of variouse people is something that seems to have been lost somewhere along the route.
I'm not getting at anyone or anything here, but I know from what I talked about with my teachers that this worried them greatly. Like all some are good some are bad, some you work with and some you don't. Each of these types had a name, I for one was trained and work as a Whindgana. Loosely this mean's a Sacred warrior or spirit hunter. Both roles are involved in the one name.
To put it in laymen's terms I deal with the rubbish and not so nice stuff, good or bad and help rebalance things that for what ever reason's have been moved out to there natural balance, my work is to restor this balance again.
This can be for humans, animals the planet or variouse other things. I come from 2 bloodlines that produce every now and then someone who can take on this role., as my OH calls me joakingly a phsycic dustman or woman in my case.
I use mostly a deep trance state to do this work, but the easier work can be done in a medetive state. I was never taught nor did I whitness any forms of drugs, mushrooms or other things being used to induce these states. The hours that we were taught how to do this were spent doing just that, to work properly and effectively we had to have all our normal senses about us.
Yes they have become more acute over time and a heck of alot sharper, so much so in my normal physical existance I have to consiously step away and block some of what I pick up out. This can be good and bad and at times very interesting and enlightening, but I try not to use these skills this way. When I left Siberia I had enough training then that I could think myself very quickly into a trance state, I still can and do, except no it hardly takes any time at all, this though came aabout by being taught how to do so, now it just 2nd nature and means that iff need be I can work quickly anywhere if I need to without any ceromony, and those around me think I'm just asleep, but this is digressing.
In my work I work with various spirit's, elementals, and interesting individuals as well as animals. I'm not sure where the name totam animal came from, and it dosn't really worry me to much, but these are just plain normal animal spirits. We always both in Siberia and in my NA teachings always just refered to them as animal guides. In both forms of teachings we could become or have all been animals etc at one time or anather, if that was where our own needs or experience was needed most.
I was taught and do have a hunch that it is these experiences that we link into with our animal guides, and that these guides were most likely us or spirits that we have worked closely with throughout each of our life times. This no doubt varies with variouse tribes or races of people. I know in christianity it got me a clout around the ear when I spoke about this at school in an RE lesson and a detention. Years later I came across a translated NA quote that I think somes this Up. I will post it at the bottom of this page.
Music and dance are in some places used yes, but I can't dance to save my life I have 2 left feet, I could really imagin how laughable I would look if I was trying to dance and move like a horse. It sure wouldn't make me any closer to that spirit , the horse spirits I work with would all stand there thinking not only had I gone stark raveing mad, but that I was doing them a great injustice. So no that's not something I personally do, others might but not me and I was never taught to.
Cultures all vary considerably though, for instance what say the Navajo do in there religiouse ceromonies differs greatly from what variouse tribes do in the northern NA tribes. Rave type music wouldn't help me go where I go, I couldn't relax or concentrate to work with that racket going on, and I do need to do both of these to work well.
Masks though are something very , very diffrent and the wearer takeson that spirit in that mask. It's a totally diffrent subject though and not one to go into here. Except to say you need to know just what your are dealing with if you work with these.
Back to music, yes I do use this as it's a good quick way to focus myself and head off with, if it's only working in a medetaion state then I will come back at the end of the CD etc, which is handy if I'm working in a small time frame. I I'm in a deep trance then sometimes I can hear it other's not. There are specific peices of music that I work to though , this way I know that when I hear that music I work and nothing more. It just helps with focusing.
The best way for my OH to contact me without disterbing me in my work in this state is by smell, sweet grass has the ability to travel bettween realms and worlds. If for what ever reason he needs me back he burns a perticular mix of sweet grass and other herbs to get me this message. We have several diffrent mix's each very diffrent smell wise but all sweet grass based. This way he can get variuse messages to me without actually disterbing me. It was something my NA partner / husband taught me and a real handy thing to know.
With this kind of work I always work for the greater good, this could be for a friend, a relitive a stranger that has come seeking my help, and animal that has come into my care or myself. It can just be for healing, to rebalance something conected with the past or anather spirit what ever. Very occasionally I just head here for myself to touch base with what I need to or to help me with my own development. If for what ever reason I have had a tough time with something and need to get out of reality for a while then I will take a trip here. Even if it's just to find myself again. But mostly it's for work for others.
I think and know that everyone works diffrently, alot of this is either through being taught this way or teaching themselves. With the diversnis of cultures there is no wrong or right way to do things as everything intermixes anyway.
I do however try to remain true to my teachings, out of respect for these Elders, and people who took the time out to teach me. I say Elders because what ever title or role they had and whatever they taught me however great or small. They were all my Elders.
Siksika
I'm not getting at anyone or anything here, but I know from what I talked about with my teachers that this worried them greatly. Like all some are good some are bad, some you work with and some you don't. Each of these types had a name, I for one was trained and work as a Whindgana. Loosely this mean's a Sacred warrior or spirit hunter. Both roles are involved in the one name.
To put it in laymen's terms I deal with the rubbish and not so nice stuff, good or bad and help rebalance things that for what ever reason's have been moved out to there natural balance, my work is to restor this balance again.
This can be for humans, animals the planet or variouse other things. I come from 2 bloodlines that produce every now and then someone who can take on this role., as my OH calls me joakingly a phsycic dustman or woman in my case.
I use mostly a deep trance state to do this work, but the easier work can be done in a medetive state. I was never taught nor did I whitness any forms of drugs, mushrooms or other things being used to induce these states. The hours that we were taught how to do this were spent doing just that, to work properly and effectively we had to have all our normal senses about us.
Yes they have become more acute over time and a heck of alot sharper, so much so in my normal physical existance I have to consiously step away and block some of what I pick up out. This can be good and bad and at times very interesting and enlightening, but I try not to use these skills this way. When I left Siberia I had enough training then that I could think myself very quickly into a trance state, I still can and do, except no it hardly takes any time at all, this though came aabout by being taught how to do so, now it just 2nd nature and means that iff need be I can work quickly anywhere if I need to without any ceromony, and those around me think I'm just asleep, but this is digressing.
In my work I work with various spirit's, elementals, and interesting individuals as well as animals. I'm not sure where the name totam animal came from, and it dosn't really worry me to much, but these are just plain normal animal spirits. We always both in Siberia and in my NA teachings always just refered to them as animal guides. In both forms of teachings we could become or have all been animals etc at one time or anather, if that was where our own needs or experience was needed most.
I was taught and do have a hunch that it is these experiences that we link into with our animal guides, and that these guides were most likely us or spirits that we have worked closely with throughout each of our life times. This no doubt varies with variouse tribes or races of people. I know in christianity it got me a clout around the ear when I spoke about this at school in an RE lesson and a detention. Years later I came across a translated NA quote that I think somes this Up. I will post it at the bottom of this page.
Music and dance are in some places used yes, but I can't dance to save my life I have 2 left feet, I could really imagin how laughable I would look if I was trying to dance and move like a horse. It sure wouldn't make me any closer to that spirit , the horse spirits I work with would all stand there thinking not only had I gone stark raveing mad, but that I was doing them a great injustice. So no that's not something I personally do, others might but not me and I was never taught to.
Cultures all vary considerably though, for instance what say the Navajo do in there religiouse ceromonies differs greatly from what variouse tribes do in the northern NA tribes. Rave type music wouldn't help me go where I go, I couldn't relax or concentrate to work with that racket going on, and I do need to do both of these to work well.
Masks though are something very , very diffrent and the wearer takeson that spirit in that mask. It's a totally diffrent subject though and not one to go into here. Except to say you need to know just what your are dealing with if you work with these.
Back to music, yes I do use this as it's a good quick way to focus myself and head off with, if it's only working in a medetaion state then I will come back at the end of the CD etc, which is handy if I'm working in a small time frame. I I'm in a deep trance then sometimes I can hear it other's not. There are specific peices of music that I work to though , this way I know that when I hear that music I work and nothing more. It just helps with focusing.
The best way for my OH to contact me without disterbing me in my work in this state is by smell, sweet grass has the ability to travel bettween realms and worlds. If for what ever reason he needs me back he burns a perticular mix of sweet grass and other herbs to get me this message. We have several diffrent mix's each very diffrent smell wise but all sweet grass based. This way he can get variuse messages to me without actually disterbing me. It was something my NA partner / husband taught me and a real handy thing to know.
With this kind of work I always work for the greater good, this could be for a friend, a relitive a stranger that has come seeking my help, and animal that has come into my care or myself. It can just be for healing, to rebalance something conected with the past or anather spirit what ever. Very occasionally I just head here for myself to touch base with what I need to or to help me with my own development. If for what ever reason I have had a tough time with something and need to get out of reality for a while then I will take a trip here. Even if it's just to find myself again. But mostly it's for work for others.
I think and know that everyone works diffrently, alot of this is either through being taught this way or teaching themselves. With the diversnis of cultures there is no wrong or right way to do things as everything intermixes anyway.
I do however try to remain true to my teachings, out of respect for these Elders, and people who took the time out to teach me. I say Elders because what ever title or role they had and whatever they taught me however great or small. They were all my Elders.
Siksika
A good addition to the thread Siksika.
BB
Mike
BB
Mike
Thanks for your reply Cern.
Siksika
Siksika
Really interesting Siksika, thanks
I found particularly interesting your not using, nor seeing the need to use drugs - there was a thread on that subject recently here.
I found particularly interesting your not using, nor seeing the need to use drugs - there was a thread on that subject recently here.
I surpose it's each to there own regarding the use of drug's, but I was taught it wasn't needed and distracted you from the experience and clouded the memories that you took away with you. Besides which it left you in a vulnerable state for days afterwards. not good when you needed your wits about you just to survive.
Mind you my teachers were perticularly tough on all of us.
Fasting yes and cleansing your body yes, some of this made you pretty spaced out anyway, but no drugs. Herbs were burnt but to cleans an area nothing more than that.
Thanks for the info about the thread, I'll go take a look and try to find it.
Siksika
Mind you my teachers were perticularly tough on all of us.
Fasting yes and cleansing your body yes, some of this made you pretty spaced out anyway, but no drugs. Herbs were burnt but to cleans an area nothing more than that.
Thanks for the info about the thread, I'll go take a look and try to find it.
Siksika
QUOTE
I surpose it's each to there own regarding the use of drug's, but I was taught it wasn't needed and distracted you from the experience and clouded the memories that you took away with you. Besides which it left you in a vulnerable state for days afterwards. not good when you needed your wits about you just to survive.
Wow and double Wow! Siksika, I am reading your posts with great interest! I see no reason to comment further, all you are saying is fascinating! I hope you will write it all down and get it published, it sounds as though you have a fascinating Autobiography there, you seem to be almost the Alaskan land bridge personified!
Oh! just in case! NO! none of that was sarcasm!
When someone worth listening too speaks, I just shut up and listen!
Oh! just in case! NO! none of that was sarcasm!
When someone worth listening too speaks, I just shut up and listen!
Thanks CornishShaman and Wolverine,
Oh heck now I've got to come up with an answer to this one. Hee Hee!
CornishShaman, alot of peopel say I should write this all down, and many times I have tried, but many times it kind of gets messy. The more I write the more I remeber, the more I remeber the more I have to keep back tracking and putting things into some kind of order. That then eats my time up and I still have so much learning still to do. As well as a young family, horses and animals and everyday life. There's just not enough hours in a day. I wish there was.
Anyway my NA friend/ partner / husband, before he headed over the great divide, gave me his Journal's of our time out in Siberia and afterwards. These have proved a very interesting if powerful read, and have set me back on a new learning curve yet again. What with this and reminding me alot was taught to me in trance and me finding a way of acessing this information has helped alot. But it's tireing work so I can only do it in small batches. Both traditions though mostly intermixable, are also very independent so I have to look both ways to understand alot of thing. Trouble is as always the more you dig away at something and ask questions about it. The more you uncover and the more questions are exposed, but hay this is all about learning and that's what I'm doing.
All I put down are my own experiences and veiws, but i'm finding it very interesting reading the same from others. And I'm adding to my own knowledge this way as well.
I'm very aware to all intense and purposes I'm of a very origional and old heritage, I'm proud of this fact. There are other's out there that I know of the same heritage , but we are now few and far bettween. It's not something that happens very often, but I promised both sets of my teachers that I would keep this knowledge alive. I fully intend to keep my word on that one.
I suspect oneday when I'm old and grey I'll fianlly get the time to wriet this all down, until that day it's in note and diary form. If I don't get around to it in mylife time It'll be there for my children should they want to.
Siksika
Oh heck now I've got to come up with an answer to this one. Hee Hee!
CornishShaman, alot of peopel say I should write this all down, and many times I have tried, but many times it kind of gets messy. The more I write the more I remeber, the more I remeber the more I have to keep back tracking and putting things into some kind of order. That then eats my time up and I still have so much learning still to do. As well as a young family, horses and animals and everyday life. There's just not enough hours in a day. I wish there was.
Anyway my NA friend/ partner / husband, before he headed over the great divide, gave me his Journal's of our time out in Siberia and afterwards. These have proved a very interesting if powerful read, and have set me back on a new learning curve yet again. What with this and reminding me alot was taught to me in trance and me finding a way of acessing this information has helped alot. But it's tireing work so I can only do it in small batches. Both traditions though mostly intermixable, are also very independent so I have to look both ways to understand alot of thing. Trouble is as always the more you dig away at something and ask questions about it. The more you uncover and the more questions are exposed, but hay this is all about learning and that's what I'm doing.
All I put down are my own experiences and veiws, but i'm finding it very interesting reading the same from others. And I'm adding to my own knowledge this way as well.
I'm very aware to all intense and purposes I'm of a very origional and old heritage, I'm proud of this fact. There are other's out there that I know of the same heritage , but we are now few and far bettween. It's not something that happens very often, but I promised both sets of my teachers that I would keep this knowledge alive. I fully intend to keep my word on that one.
I suspect oneday when I'm old and grey I'll fianlly get the time to wriet this all down, until that day it's in note and diary form. If I don't get around to it in mylife time It'll be there for my children should they want to.
Siksika
There is quite a strong shamanic thread running through Tibetan Buddhism which I practice. For Tibetal Buddhists all practice is always for the benefit of all sentient beings, animal, spirit, human etc.
Any merit accumulated during any practice is always sent out to all beings in all realms and never kept for oneself.
The hope is that all beings can attain realisation, and freedom from suffering.
Any merit accumulated during any practice is always sent out to all beings in all realms and never kept for oneself.
The hope is that all beings can attain realisation, and freedom from suffering.
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