Science is revealing truths not The Truth for there is no Truth in science. Matter does exist, we can just now see down to the deeper structures of matter. It exists because we are "programmed" to see matter because we exist at this level and not at the subatomic level - where matter breaks down into its constituent parts. However, matter is still real because that is the level we operate on.

By giant hologram are you referring to Quantum Bioholography? It's an interesting concept but not widely accepted at the moment - time will tell with that. Consciousness creates a reality - each one different for everyone.

Evolution is not a distraction it is a fact which some people find very threatening because it would mean they would have to re-evaluate their belief structures or abandon them entirely. Evolution is the history of life on this planet and is awe-inspiring and amazing enough without having to invent some Cosmic Being because people want ot feel special. You keep on about this truth but the sad reality is, I believe, is that there is no one Truth. Many humans would love there to be but the more we come to understand the universe and ourselves the more it becomes apparent the The Truth is a fiction. This is one of the reasons the Christian and Islamic religions do so well is because they offer an Absolute Truth which is what some people want, however ridiculous or illogical those Absolute Truth's may seem.

Although I revere and follow the Norse Deities the majority of the time I work just with energys
As these energys can be male female or nutral(SP) I find this VLF and stuff very difficult to take personally
some of the energy that has no gender is the most powerfull
VLF before you continue trying to push this on us can i please ask you to read up on some of the pagan paths represented on here Like Wicca Tradwitch And Heathen and athiest pagan

I respect you have your beliefs please respect ours

wassail n frith

Mojie

When I read the first post the little voice at the back of mind whispered "No, it's bollocks". After I read the next dozen or posts the voice said "No, it's preachy bollocks". Now the voice is shouting "NO! It's blinkered, preachy bollocks, and he's trying to convert you".
If I wanted that, I'd go and talk to the born-again xians who keep trying to save me from the devil.

To steal someone elses idea

[ brumwolf mode active]

Is this something you've made up in order to feed your own ego by acquiring 'followers' or to see how many people you can dupe?

[ brumwolf mode inactive]

I feel that I am being used to express these things to the world, for they are true. If nothing comes of it, however, I guess you can consider me just another crazy person (if you don't already).

In many ways, designing a kitchen is actually more complicated. For what I'm saying can be summed up in a few paragraphs.

Worship is nothing other than recognising the divine feminine Source as form and offering to love and honour her, which may be expressed however she sees fit (symbolically, as ritual; practically, in terms of her needs; or, yes, sexually, if she so desires). Yet, man is not "giving of himself," because man is just a mask, behind which is the Goddess. This is the game we play because, as Source, there's no one else to play with!

Few women truly embody the spirit of the Goddess in full bloom, as form, and so worship is not offered lightly. We do not worship egos, which are not a reflection of the divine, but a product of the environment in which they live.

Actualy I'd go further, is this just a way for you to get your leg over?

etc etc etc...

Why is "The Source" feminine? Isn't that rather arbritrary? Why couldn't it (and why isn't it ) male with feminine attributes?


Out of curiosity - have you gone to other Pagan groups with your ideas and what kind of reception did you receive there?

No i don't consider you crazy. Some of the ideas i even quite like and a couple i agree with. But you probably see yourself that the approach is a bit odd adn some of the ideas a bit extreme when handed over fresh like this. But hey, many have been inspired and thought mad (but then agan many mad people have been truly inspired sorry, just ribbing you) so who knows? Not sure though that the title VLF is going to help your quest though because it sounds like something out of california.

you know I've been racking my brains. Could someone please tell me where I've heard this "source" thingy before

And please (note the spelling) dont mention ketchup

On a table in a local greasy sp..... sorry couldn't resist it. You're not thinking of star trek are you? (i'm not kidding here) there were a couple of episodes where the 'source' was mentioned in a religious context if i remember correctly.

In full bloom eh? So would that mean that once a woman is past her "bloom" she is no longer viable.

What about the Goddess as Crone ?

Oh and you are male I take it, so dont you think its a bit presumptious to say what women do or dont do?

could well be Woozle. Thank you

They are true, apparently, for you. However that does not imply some deep universal truth as most people here have had quite deep and meaningful "truths" revealed to them. However how those "truths" are interpreted is another matter. No one can lay claim to hold the Truth (for as I've said in earlier posts I don't believe there is one no matter how much wishing for one we do).

We all have our opinions on such matters as you are finding out. But as Clint Eastwood so memorably put it - opinions are like arseholes: everyone has one. If you have experienced something which makes sense of the world for you then this is all well and good, no matter how daft, deluded or irrational others may find it. However what you have to realise is that a personal gnosis (or whatever) is subjective and cannot be used to prove anything and doesn't necessarily mean we have hit upon the truth (of anything). There is always the possibility that we are deluding ourselves.

The problem lies in that you are preaching and that gets people's backs up quicker than anything. Offering opinions is fine and then arguing the points - that's how we learn and advance in any field. Also implying that all other gods are fictional and by extension that a lot of pagans here are therefore deluded for following something that is not real is pure arrogance.

VLF eh? Is this some kinda rip-off of "Viva La Feminista"?

When I refer to the Tree of life I refer to the Sephirirot, where Kether or Crown is regarded as the source.
"This sphere is nueutral , Balaced or Pre-Polirisation."
The is a split where the left hand pillar is feminine and catalyitic and the right hand masculine and analytical.
The two pillars have diffrent qulities associated with them.
Maybe you would be intrested to know that the the Goal of Ritual/Ceremonal Magic which is to rise up through a Middle pathway from Earth/Malkth to the Kether/Crown, Using a balaced pathway between the two.
I referred you to the Tree of Life because you state in your Bio you have a Intrest in Astral Traveling, Most Astral Travellers have some understanding of the Tree of life, in the same way that most Motorists have a understanding of a road atlas. Yes you don't need a atlas to drive on the roads but it certanly makes the journey easier.

The system you are proposing seems to consist of achiving understanding of Kether by purley travelling up the Left hand Path. I'd be very very intrested to hear how you achive this?
Please keep me informed if you achive this because its really groundbreaking stuff.

You could be the New Alistair Crowley for all we know. And like all True visionarys you will have to put up with a lot of flack and negative input from those who dont belive you.

I wish you all the best in your future endavors but I think I will stick to Ritual Magic.

Thank you Comfrey, you managed to post more or less the same comments that I was about to (Except I don't "do" the Goddess as crone thing ).

Reading through the posts what occurs to me is that a) the "Divine feminine" is only applicable to young nubile females, and b ) this has the characteristics of a organisation that I would run as fast as possible from. Some of the concepts put forward by VLF are downright offensive, others show very woolley thinking.

Granted, VLF has said that this is "channelled information", but I am pretty sure that even information obtained in this manner has to stand up to challenge and scrutiny to a point.

Basically, VLF, if it works for you then great, but don't for one minute assume you have stumbled across some great truth that people are all going to agree with, or that all Pagans agree there is one Great Goddess, or even one "Source"

Whitethorn

For fear of sounding stupid....but....WTF? Are you real Mr VLF, is this something you truly believe? Or is this a prank to enable you to win/fulfill a bet?

You have GOT to be kidding?

Do you know King Kev?

Seriously.......

anyway, goota get back to the meadery.....

Hi Whitehorn

I dont think anyone has to do the Goddess at all in any form, to understand the implications in VLF's words. Youre quite right that it seems only applicable to nubile young women and as a rather UN nubile woman I do indeed find that offensive.

I also get the uncomfortable feeling I've heard all this before, somewhere .............

I'm just wondering when the knee bends and celibacy comes in...

I am sure i have heard this VLF before somewhere. and i know it probally confused me more then that it does now.

So is PMT door slamming part of this.

So. Basically what you're saying is.....
Sex is love and not just a basic instinct in all living beings.
Women have sex with men to 'love' themselves.
Men have sex with women because they 'love' them (Anyone heard of rape, both male and female?)
Only a very few women embody the 'Source' as the 'Goddess in full bloom' (Does this include anyone over the age of 40 or under it and pug ugly?)

Does the sex or love and sharing between gays an lesbians not count in your little world view?

How do you know that whoever or whatever you channelled wan't just taking the huge p*ss out of you?

Pomona, my love. There can't be any celibacy as it's all about VLF (chatroom chaps know my version of this) and his boys getting a shag.

Well, personally, I get worshipped as the Goddess every day, just about. It has a very good effect on my ego, too. I see it as biology dressed up, rather than mystery wisdom.

What does 'egoic' mean anyway?

When I saw the diagram, it was the Tree of Life that sprung to mind for me too. I studied it way back when, and although it is not now part of my path the imagery still resonates with me in my understanding of how energy and magick work. I didn't get very far with watching the videos, most sensible part of it to me was Megan's comment that Nate's whispering was really creepy. Reminded me a bit of a heavy breather on the phone. But anyway, from what I understand from the rest of the thread, you seem to be worshipping the Divine Feminine. Ok, fair enough, many pagans would have little trouble with that. Doreen Valiente's Charge of the Goddess, again, fair enough. Even ritual sex, I have no particular problems with. But as several of us... ahem... 'older' ladies have said, where does the crone aspect come into this? The Divine Feminine, as I understand it, encompasses All stages of Womanhood; Maid, Mother, Crone, and not forgetting the fourth face of the Goddess. As an older woman who works closely with the latter two aspects of the Goddess, and has strong personal and magickal ties to several lesbian and Valkyrie types (and a few gay men also) I can assure you that there is nothing unfeminine about a woman who either loves other women, or who has a bl**dy big battle axe and is not afraid to use it!


Seriously, if this is something which works for you, then I can respect that, even if it doesn't work for me. It does seem to place too much emphasis on one aspect of femininity to the detriment of the rest, and to misunderstand the role of the masculine and the God. But to each his own.

There is only *One* true way to the Divine Feminines & that is by worship of The *Tena Ladies*


Here !!!

Pay particular attention to the Shroud

For god's sakers gie' s a break.
Utter twaddle and if no one here can figure that ooout, then god help us all. Period.

*******

The chap who made these videos is no doubt on the road to getting his degree/certificate whatever. Big wow.

The whole concept being promulgated is a heap of shite. Dur.

Anyone with half a brain can deduce this. Assuming they've bothered to watch and listen to the wordage therein. Again, dur. Etk.

"I myself gave VLF to the world very recently"

Big wow. Good for you pet!

******

Here comes the overall quote bit:

"You'll have to be more specific regarding the Tree of Life issue, as it means different things to different people.

Tell it my friend – I am sure there are listeners.

“That matter does not really exist and that we're living in some sort of giant hologram; that consciousness creates reality.”

Over to you Quasi!

****

Tas's observations:

Sorry Woozle mate, Grans are out of the picture.

Tak – 3 hand clappy cheery things.

Wulfric speaka da lingo!

Comfrey: the “source” thingy I it was either Atlanta or the cludgie,

The Q wumman was closest in that she voiced the “rip off” words. I wouldn’t go that far. Tis not my style to gild the lily.

****

? Bag of shite.

Mods. feel free to strike me off.

Tas Mania.

Aye, whoopie do. Its not like most of us haven't heard this kinda come-on before.

I always thought Stephen Hawking should have a hobby but I never thought he'd take up trolling.

David Gemmel's fantasy novels refer to 'the source' an awful lot.

Q

Maybe it depends on where the source is located, and what's gushing forth Queenie?

Sounds like a lot of sexist claptrap to me. Feel free to stick it in the orifice of your choice.

Oedipus?

Sorry, just saying what I see.

I think we might actually have scared him off. Not much of a welcome i suppose.

Woozle beat me to editing my comment...

This particular type of media tease also reminds me of the 'Broken Saints' project.

Well, he did ask!

I r verily confooosed.

This seems like a bunch of submissive males who like to worship domineering women.

I'm a woman myself so i'm flattered that you think i'm all that but there has to be a balance.

Men and Women are equally measured. Non is better than the other.

Well, that's my view anyway!

How does this work for gay men?

It doesn't. It doesn't work for straight ones, either. It's hooey.

*Shhhhhhhhh*

we were hoping this had gone away...

Maybe we should just chat aboot 'RED Thread' again, seeing as shite is really the name of this topic!!!! LOL

[quote=Moonhunter,Jul 19 2008, 11:53 AM]
[quote=VLF,Jul 13 2008, 10:38 AM]
How does this work for gay men?

[/quote]

I have no idea, but I have a rather disturbing image of Regina Fong in my head.

Thank you for that. Remind me to return the favour.

Can't believe I missed this one! Well I was in Paris worshipping the food and clothing of that plus belle Ville

Comfrey - you have heard it before because 'the source' is a rewrite of the feminist creation myth which I believed first appeared in Starhawk's writings. It's about the Goddess creating a mirror in the vacuum of space, falling in love with herself, making love to herself and giving forth creation.

Okay, so VLF involves a woman being worshipped by lots of (hopefully) virile young men, (maybe even surfer dude types as it's in Cornwall - swoon). Where do I sign up??

did he come back

NO!!

*Shhhhhhh*

So I was right, it is so he can get a shag.

Lupine, I LOVE your userpic.

Mmmm methinks the type you mention wouldn't need to employ VLF !!

Please Rhi you would leave these young things broken and wasted on the floor before you knew where you were, stick with real men like your Martin.

Yeah but Rhi could you really cope with conversations which revolve around words and phrases like 'party on' and 'totaly'?

I always get the urge to headbutt the "darlings".

Why thank you