has anyone ever found any new gods or maybe caused one to form ? just wandering really

Interesting Question. Neil Gaiman suggested, in the Sandman stories, that the New Japanese Pantheon included Elvis and Marilyn Monroe. Probably includes Miffy and Hello Kitty now too.

But old gods and goddesses slip into new guises, and we know that Eris has a special interest in IT.

I'm interested in this idea. I think it sometimes happens in chaos magic but I know next to nothing about it, and like Fred says, how do you differentiate between a new god/dess and and old one in a new form ?

I did some meditation work using "Grimoire Dehara" which is a book by Storm Constantine based on the spirituality described in her fictional "Wraeththu" series. She's keen to point out that she doesn't intend it as a religion. However, I found that using the fictional landscape and characters as guides for meditation worked really well. I don't know if you could take something like that a step further and base your path around it. I've heard of those who do so with Tolkien's elves:

The Hidden Realm

The origins of belief systems fascinate me. I love things like Mad Max 3 where the lost children have built a mythology around Captain Walker "Engine Summer" by John Crowley is a good fictional book that kind of explores this theme. Or if you're more academically minded Joseph Campbell's Mythology books are old but good on the roots of belief.

Thinking about this this morning I remembered this:

Prince Philip Movement

So what if a human becomes deified, like Prince Philip or Haile Selassie ? I know this happens through beatification in Caltholicism as well. After death are these people new deities ?

That is one hell of a freaky thought, the idea of Hello Kitty being a god/goddess.

I suppose if you take the view that the gods came into existance after the 'big bang' then sure, new gods could appear and old ones disappear.

However, if you take the view that the gods were around before the universe came into existence, that's a tad different.

Well, I've heard of people invoking Batman (think it was someone on here recently who said it recently) - which really leads me to believe that (*theist opinion coming up here*) that modern gods are creations of man and that the ones which form the pantheons of Rome, Greece, Sweden, Gaul, Mexico etc etc, are the "real deal" as they were not, and cannot be, created by man

Well here are the chaos magicians and others of that ilke who "create" a god for the needs of their ritual.

Hoodoo has some interesting ideas on this as well. But I'm not an expert on it so will leave it to others to delve deeper.

I'd differentiate between gods and egregores.

I can see Elvis as an egregore...

**Athiest opinion comin up here** Alternatively you could just be looking through rose tinted specs and not willing to admit the clear similarities between the two which is really just people invoking avatars that best encompass the need/energy they want/need to work with and there is no "real deal" when it comes to gods... Batman is a valid as Thor.

*runs off to make a bacon buttie and stick it in the post so P wont hate her too much*

*munches on said bacon butty...

"mmmm, delish" *


No argument with what you've said - after all, I could get to the end of my mortal coil and discover that actually I HAVE been making it up as I go along.

But then the gods are as real to me as you are and so if I do get to end of said mortal coil and find out they're a figment of my imagination - what does that make you?

It's a bit like saying that because you've never seen... oh, I don't know, a bear in China, that they therefore don't exist.

Pomona!!!!

You made my head go wibble, just having weird thoughts about Xalle only existing as a figment of your imagination.

What if anything should happen to your coil, she could cease to be *wraps both Xalle and Pomona in protective Queenie hugs*. You've brought this on yourselves young ladies with your wilfully dangerous philosophies.

But back to the post...

Pratchett argues that old gods do new jobs, I think I could buy into that argument.

While, my Gods are as real to me as Xalle, I wouldn't throw out with the bath water that we might have a hand in the shape we perceive deity to be, so it Batman and Kitties are floating around in our subconscious, possibly (cos I’m not entirely sure if I have figured this all out yet, we are still in brain fart stage) they influence our perception of deity.

Q

Lol, You mean you don't have a shrine to the Great God Google near your PC?

In all seriousness, I do think it is possible for certain "old time" gods to take on new roles and aren't fussed about what you call them to facilitate this. We have examples of this throughout the classical texts. Hecate for example by the late second century didn't seem to mind at all also being called Kore, Artemis and Selene.

Heh so who knows perhaps the Great God Google is actually Tehuti or Mercury in disguise?

xXx

*snuggles down into Queenies hug*

"Quite nice here P.. aint it?"

You are so right! We could all be someone elses dream. Oh, I believe that the gods are real to you, absolutely. I mean solid real. But then like you say, what is real?

I mean maybe, in 200 years time, Batman will be a god and as real to someone else because belief has given it form. I guess we'll never know. I just suppose I dont see why there cant be new gods, since the old gods were new gods once.

*reaches up and give Queenie a buttie*

"tea anyone?"

In Heathenry new gods can be created, the spirit of a woman who is deceased who was an exceptional person in life can become a Disir, an ancestral goddess, their name preceded by the term Dis, for example Dis Silv who was a dear friend to many and a truly exceptional lady.

Storm Raven

I tend to run to the concept of if there is a large enough pool of concrete belief in something then it will come into existence. Forming first as a concept on the thought plain it then takes on a cohesive form in the physical where if the belief is strong enough it then completes itself in the spiritual...

I think new Gods Can appear (or maybe its Old gods with new guises) Raises the question can Gods learn and evolve?
Perhaps the ones that don't (its a 2 way street the Worship and Reward system that many subscribe to) and the ones that don't become the forgotten Gods.

I'm in agreement with those who think that it's we who make the gods rather than the other way round.

Possibly the Wiccan Goddess and God might be cases in point.

How else did the deities of the past come into existence, after all?

What I find rather more scary is that once we create them, they have autonomy and power independent of us. They don't just go away...

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

that is a scary thought. but interesting!

My opinion .....

The human mind is capable of projecting unknown forces, in that way if there is enough belief that a god or goddess exists then these unknown mental forces can give substance and reality to the god or goddess

So in short....if you believe hard enough then it exists in some form

Please do not dwell on this thought while a little drunk alone in a dark room...I know...could not sleep for hours

Thats true except you have to keep at it or else they tend to dissipate.I get this problem with the devil Lumiel.You have to keep it in mind else it gets more tricky each time you summon them.

At Queer Pagan camp this year I did a workshop of creating/channeling as yet unknown or forgotten queer deities. The person who ran it had channeled a queer, multi-gendered deitiy through his art, and we did it shaping clay with our eyes closed while in a mild trance state. We came up with some interesting stuff, though mainly spirits and the like rather than deities per say. Though we agreed it was something that would take more than a 2 hour workshop to do properly!

I think it's totally possible that there would be deities floting around the either who've not had a chance to make themselves known as of yet. We just need to keep ourselves open to them!

Nobody here has read "Small Gods" by Terry Prachett? Read it. You need to.

I'd also suggest reading Douglas Adams' The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul too where the gods of Asgard are all living here and now.
It's a good read and a little thought provoking and sad too.