Okay I just wanted to ask for some advice really. I've read Runic Johns Book of Seidr and it's amazing. I've been practicing trying to hit a trance state, and tonight I almost hit it. At least I think I did, my head and mind started to go all cold and tingly, is this a sign that I'd almost hit it? I was so close I feel but I thought I'd just take this stuff slowly and came out of. I think I felt a little bit tripped out as well, could anyone tell me of their first experiences with Seidr or any form of trance work or if they felt a bit funny at first? Thanks

I know nothing at all about Seidr, but I used to work in a group which often involved trance, or at least a trance like state

I can still go "off on one" on occasion but these days I am far less disciplined than I was way back.

But if its similar then yes it can feel really weird at first. As well as the tingling sensation you get just before trance, I used to get a really exaggerated sense of hearing too.

May I ask, I'm assuming seidr involves a state of deep meditation? And is there anything else involved like music ? Or drumming?

Or is it a completely different?

I think different people will get different sensations when they "hit it". I tend to go quite cold. Yes, it can be quite disorientating so when coming out of it having a drink or something to eat or even a jump up and down and a laugh can help I find.



Many would say that trance journeying is a totally different thing to meditation. I don't use any music or drumming when I journey - I find it too distracting and prefer silence. But everyone is different and I think many will use drums to achieve it.

Ah I see. Now I use meditation to go into trance and as a starting point to my journeying. Sometimes with music, sometimes in silence.

May I ask how you go into trance if it doesnt begin form a meditative state? I'm not being pedantic, I just dont understand how

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I guess I was really referring to trance work in general, not just Seidr. I'm not sure how it's different to meditation, although I do at the same time, it's weird, I've meditated before for long periods of time, I think the whole point of me meditating before was keeping a clear state of mind perhaps maybe with something focuses in, but the goal I guess is to stay in reality still. I think with trance work the initial goal is to travel and let your soul or mind slip away, and your brain begins to hit a frequency in between sleep and consciousness. Tonight I'm going to try again I think, just going to ebb slowly into it, I'm sure one day I'll hit it properly. But I'm quite a hyper-vigilant person normally anyway, and when it comes to odd sensations I can get a little panicky, but I'm hoping maybe through journeying I can drop this character armor I've seemed to have developed.

I will often go into a trance in the bath - intentionally I should add - because it is a very relaxing environment I find. I just let myself go, so to speak, detach myself from myself. I usually focus on where I want to go - although I don't always end up their if someone else has other ideas! It's not something I can really explain easily I'm afraid.

As to the difference between meditation and trance - to be honest I'm not entirely sure myself But I always udnerstand meditation to be a mental exercise whereas as trance is where you actually leave your body to walk the other worlds. Something like that anyway.

Hi

I think we're talking about the same thing pretty much then (damn this terminology it always gets me in bother )

My starting point is always the same tho and thats getting into a warm and comfortable environment and totally relaxing. Then I allow myself to "go" so to speak.

Sometimes this would be for a specific purpose, to have a nose round at something, and at other times just to see what might be waiting for me.

Can I ask another question please Wulfric, because it relates to what Lelthehun is saying?

I was always taught that when you are aiming for this "out of body" experience it is absolutely tantamount to protect yourself. I know some doubt the existence of nasties, but I have had some pretty horrific experiences in the past.

With Seidr work do you employ the same safeguards? Because if thats the case then perhaps we ought to be advising that first before trying anything. I know I would.

You know I've been asking these questions for a long time, ever since I first heard of Seidr because I had assumed the whole thing was different to how a "normal" witch practises, but I understand that Seidr actually means witch now (?) and so I'm thinking that perhaps the practises are actually no different at all, but just use differnt terms.

I mean for goodness sake I was taught this form of out of body experience was called "astral travel" and yet when I first used this term amongst pagans they all fell about laughing themselves silly.

But I actually wonder how different we all are.

Theres talk of there being "this" kind of witch" and "that kind of witch" but in truth, if you get rid of the crap and strip it down to basics, IS there any/much difference??

Sorry I know thats going off on a tangent a bit (and perhaps this ought to be split), but as I said I've been asking this question for a long time and its never been adequately answered and I wonder if thats because people enjoy the elitism of being a member of certain groups ?

Myself I'm happy just being a bogstandard witch. But that could also be due to the fact I'm a lazy cow and cant be asked to do all the study involved in being a "something"

But also maybe it would be nice to celebrate our similarities instead of arguing over our differences

I was always taught that meditation and trance state go hand in hand. Meditation getting you ready ad relaxed kinda like walking through a gate way before traveling deeper into a trance state. I was alos taught that meditaion is basically a lite trance which you can use at any time. Where as a deep trance is where we tend to work or do what ever we do.

I'll be honest I use both stages, I always have. But I've yet to find anather gate way into a deep trance with the exception of sudden extreme and intense pain, but that's not a recomended route I can asure you. And I sure wouldn't use it again unless absolutly necersary and even then it was to escape the pain.

Anyway hope that's of some use.

Siksika

After reading Comfrey's post, I would just like to add this work should always be done only once you've protected yourself. I always do and when writeing my last post naturally presumed that everyone does this as mater of course.

Siksika

PS: Comfrey, I'm an individual who dosn't fit in a box or group. I've no intention's to do so either. I was also taught that there are variouse names for this trance state , one of which was astral travel. They basically all mean the same thing.
We'll that is what I was taught and so far as my experince it seem's to be true. For my own terminoligy for a deep trance state I use the terms takeing time out, a trip or a journey. It's all one and the same for me at any rate. no doubt others will disagree with me, but hay this is a large enough world to not tread on one anthers toes.

Personally I don't bother with protection. But then there's always my fylgja and she goes with me everywhere and I'm usually going to places I already know. There are also safe havens to retreat to if threatened - they have a name but I've got a mind-block at the moment!



Yes. And No. I guess it depends who you talk to and what their personal interpretation is. I suppose Seidhr is a type of witchcraft, amongst others such as Galdr. Seidhr seems to have been traditionally a female pursuit whereas as Galdr (linked with the runes) is a male pursuit. Possibly the only difference is the intent of the individual.



- sorry Astral travel sounds very New Agey and the general rubbish that often is taught with that - like the whole silver thread connecting your body with the astral body. Not actually come across anyone who believes this yet and I've never seen it.



There's always going to be people who get some sort of snobbish one-upmanship-pleasure from belonging to certain groups. Can't be bothered with it myself.

I think the problem is that everyone experiences and interpretes these things differently so there are always going to be conflicts of opinion or contradictory advice. I always say go with what you're comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable then stop until you do. And it's always a good idea to get lots of different opinions.

The problem is that people dont seem to understand the need for protection and often wont until its almost too late.

Its very easy to say "I dont believe in "nasties" if you have never experienced it and then to go out unprotected.

Then WHAM! there you are face to face with something you would rather not be face to face with, and you have to get back without getting kicked around.

I've had far to many experiences that aren't too nice to ever contemplate being blase. Its better to be safe tha sorry

Wulfric, I agree that "astral travel" is deemed a new age term, but it wasnt new age 30 years ago when I was taught, it was just the wording which was used

I didnt meet any pagans until ten years ago, so I was unaware my terminology was deemed "fluffy"

I should have added it's probably sensible to protect yourself when doing this sort of thing. I would also add that personally I wouldn't use journeying merely as a bit of fun - I only do it if I have a particular person I want to meet (like an ancestor) or a particular piece of information I'm after.

Abso bloomin lutely

LABELS! What a pain!
They are helpful to start with, they give you a very rough common language! But the truth is whatever you do, or label yourself as, we are all INDIVIDUALS, we all do things OUR way! Even if that wasnt the original plan!
Personally I call 'Seidr', 'Journeying', though Astral Projection or a number of other terms will do! Traveling to the Otherworlds, basically!
Actually 'Seidr' was originally performed from a raised platform, is anyone actually doing that? Just out of curiousity!
Personally, I always cast a circle around my BODY when I am doing this, I dont want to come back and realise I have some sort of spiritual squatters!
But on the Journey itself I always have plenty of protection if I need it!

Apart from casting a circle, what other ways can people protect themselves before and during journeying?

Yup thats what I do. Not a circle as such (as in wiccan type variety) but just a protective globe thing.

But as you say on the journey itself I have protection anyway. But its all a learning curve.

I've done the young and foolish and "nothing can touch me, I'm invincible" thing, and I've done the "everything out there is trying to get me" thing. Nowadays there's a happy medium (forgive the pun LOL)

But I agree with the labels thing absolutely. I'm still surprised that someones use of terms seem to determine whether they are serious or "fluffy". They mean the same bloody thing.

Surely its what you DO which makes you one thing or the other, not what terminology you use (or what pretties you buy )

Athena I dont cast circle. I sort of shove myself in a bubble. Rather like you imagine yourself covered from head to toe in a sleeping bag. You can then (in your minds eye) place mirrors looking outward, so your reflecting back negativity.

I taught my kids this because its easy but I still use it. I strip things down to basics because I personally believe a lot of the effort put into casting this and throwing that, is just time consuming and irrelevant.

But there is also something called the Childrens fire, where you imagine yourself surrounded by flames. The flames cant hurt you but they keep you warm and they stop anything unpleasant walking through.

But I also have a young friend who imagines herself inside a disco ball and thats pretty much the same as the sleeping bag effect.

I really dont see any need for fancy circles. People like to think its all mystical and interesting, but it isnt really, its just plain common sense

I think most of us mean a 'Sphere' when we say casting a Circle!
Its just another example of a Label! not much use casting a wall round yourself to protect yourself from things that can pass through matter, eg your ceiling and floor!

Oh I thought people were referring to that arm waving thing. Dagger in hand calling in the "watchtowers" and stuff like that

I clear the space that I work in first of all then introduce both my medicine bundle and the Grandmother bundle that is in my care. These themselves are part and parcel of my protecion. I also carry wih me a specific item that is NA and that I was give the role of gardian of.

It's something that I have been trained to work with, and it alone is powerful protecetion. This combined with my own personal stuff keeps me safe and keeps unwanted guests away. This is how I was taught to work, and it does so well.

I don't do this for fun, but I will head off to my space in a trance state if I need time out to sort something out and for contacting those that I need to etc.

Siksika

Oh I learnt about protection, and me being bad enough as it is when it comes to panicking and worrying about 'nasties', I make a little circle around me comfortable enough to lie in with my runes with Ehwaz at the front of the circle and bring a little Statue of Odin and Freyja in with me too and sit on a pillow. Tonight I tried it again though, I'm not joking, no exaggerations, I tried to hit a trance for 2 whole hours, trying to get into a comfy position, and learning how to hit it. Just as I was just about to hit a trance, and gathered up the courage to tell myself to go with it, the bloody tribal journey drumming track playing in my ears ran its course and it left me practically jumping up, just as I was about to really hit it. Such a shame:( Going to try tomorrow, again haha. But I keep feeling the urge to try, like a calling so to speak.
A question I did have though guys. Does the world that you're going to enter just appear before you, or do you generally have to try and picture it before hand? Because I had the idea you were supposed to picture it before hand, maybe this is where I am going wrong, because in doing that it's hard to listen to the drumming and breaks the whole idea of a trance. But I worry that if I don't picture something, nothing will happen. But then even after that, when I am hitting a trance, that very point when I know I'm slipping away, will one of the 9 worlds just appear before me? Hmmm. haha. Thanks for your time everyone

Sorry I dont know what you mean by one of the nine worlds.

I'm not a heathen so possibly they would understand this more

For myself I either "travel" to the safe place that I have been going to for many many years, a place I originally found when in guided meditation, and thats a deliberate act and I do picture it in my minds eye

Or I just go with it and see what happens. It all really depends on what I'm after.

Are you wanting to journey to meet your ancestors or just to see whats out there so to speak?

From what I can gather from general conversations with trusted friends over the years, everyone does this diffrently.

For me personally, I begin with recentering myself and consciously slowing my breathing rate down. This is so that I relax and don't think about everyday matters, makeing things easier to focus on. I sometimes listen to music , sometimes not. But if I do it's only very quiet and in the back ground.

My journey starts with an Inky blackness that slowly becomes variouse shades of blue, like I'm looking up through water from somewhere very deep beneath it.
As the shades of blue get lighter, I know and mentally prepare myself for where ever I am actually going to, and this can be diffrent every time or somehwere I'm familier with. This basically for want of better terminoligy is my gate way in.

I always meet the same spirits that I work with each time and from there go and do what ever I have to do. When it's finished I go back into the inky blackness and return usually rested but also on a bit of a high. Once back I tend to crash out for a while.

That's basically a very simplified version of what happend to me, as I say from what I can gather everyone is diffrent. I don't picture a place of where I want to go to because I go to where I am needed.

As for 9 worlds, in my heritage we have 7 plains or realms and have done for century's. So I can't help you there.

Hope that's of some use

Siksika

I don't do OOB as such - though there is a difference for me between 'light' and 'heavy' states. 'Heavy' is where I'm quite deeply under. When I've experienced with that and been with people, it's like knowing they are there, but I'm somewhere else. I can see them perfectly well, but they're operating in a different time zone, where things go faster, and I prefer to let them be; it's an effort to talk to them, though it's perfectly possible. From this perspective, I understand seidr very well, though I don't practice it.



Yes, you need the same safeguards. The primary one among those Heathens I know who do this (and I'm including myself as well as a seid-worker) is reliance on a fylgja (fetch).

But it's not just that. I have been asked to 'stand guard' over a seid-worker to ensure she came to no harm while in trance. That meant, if necessary, bringing her out of trance safely. And that would mean, if necessary, going 'in'. Don't ask me how I'd do that because I can't explain it, but, on that occasion, I saw another (newbie) seid-worker under threat while in trance and someone else went 'in' but a well meaning soul, trying to rescue the seid-worker, unintentionally plucked the rescuer out. The mess got sorted in the end, but it took a lot of effort by a number of people that the newbie knew nothing about because he had no idea what had happened as he wasn't protected and didn't recognise the threat.



No. Seidr is more like shamanic work. Traditional Heathen magic comprises a number of different forms - Galdr uses sound, Leechcraft uses plants, and there's just plain witches.



AFAIK, I don't do astral travel. I only know about walking the worlds.



Heh. I wonder.

To answer Lelthehun's question - I walk another world. However, though it's different to this one, I've been walking it longer than I've been a Heathen, so I don't view it in some sort of picturesque Eddaic term. I don't see identifiable landmarks that would enable one to say "Oh, look - I'm in Elfhame!" or whatever. It's just ..er... a place. The Silence. The Central Place. Maybe it's the heart of Yggdrasil. Or maybe it's the place where the Norns dwell, under the tree. I wouldn't be surprised. I've met one of them.

Hi
Actually I was taught about the different plains too, also of which there were 7 and much of what you have described sounds similar.

However these plains were simply that, different levels starting with "the Earth plain" and upwards. Not worlds

But also I was taught to travel downwards to greet the animals or totems.

I'm going back a long time with this, so I hope my memory is serving me well. Some of it I still employ, but much of it now, I have to admit, I view with more scepticism. However I wouldn't swap that training for the world, even if these days some of the beliefs surrounding it dont quite gel with me any more


I do understand what a fetch is, but wouldn't the same sort of protection be afforded someone who worked with spirit guides or who had animal "totems"?


Again I was taught this and when I worked in a group there was always someone who watched and guarded in case someone became stressed or couldn't return.

Like I sais before, I value this teaching very much, but I wonder if this extreme of safeguard is necessary if someone is adept?


Yes but it sounds as if much is the same. Most of the "just plain witches" I know, journey and have a good working knowlege of fetches (or similar). They also use these abilities oftentimes for what could be described as shamanic work. Although I despise using that word. Its one of those things which rubs me up the wrong way because a shaman is trained and trained and trained and it takes years


This is my point. This is what astral travel is to me. Or rather this was the words I was taught for walking between worlds. Its only in recent years I've learnt people find this terminology "fluffy".

The term may be fluffy, but the practise is the same

Now when I am asked I would say that my witchcraft (if that is what it is) comes from within and is pretty much instinctual.

The stuff I describe as having been taught it might surprise people to know, came from within the spiritualist movement, which at the time was still inherently a christian organisation. That is apart from some stuff I learnt from being a member of a lodge at around the same time.

Which takes me back to the point that I actually think we should be celebrating our similarities instead of arguing about differences. It seems pretty obvious to me that we are all doing pretty much the same stuff, we are just calling it by different names depending on the actual path we are walking.

No idea. You'd have to ask others.

I have a couple of friends who are shamans (the real thing) and they'd agree with you. Whatever they call what they have. But, from speaking to them, a spirit guide is not the same thing as a fetch, even if willing to perform one similar function in the Otherworld(s).



I don't use a safeguard and never have. The one time I was attacked, though (and I wasn't in a trance) it wasn't nice and help was welcome.



I'm not fussed what terms people use for what they experience. The usual problem is digging below the words to see if the experience is the same.

I've know people use the same term for two entirely different experiences, so it's not even possibly in the same religion to take for granted two people mean the same thing by the same word.



I learned all the essentials as a Christian practising in the Western Mystical Tradition.



Sometimes it's different. I don't do what shamans do; nothing like. But a lot of what most of us do is similar.

No its not the same, although I've heard contradictory things when describing these too. But its my understanding (now) that a fetch uses part of a persons spirit or soul. Is that right?

Whereas before I always though a fetch was a thougtform created for a specific purpose.

As I said I'm not a heathen, but the former is how it was told to me recently


This wasn't a dig at your abilities, just a question because I've only found it necessary to intervene when someone was a "trainee" so to speak.

I also agree with you that help would indeed have been welcome when I was attacked. Particularly once when I was stupid enough, and indeed arrogant enough, to think I could deal with a particular very nasty something alone

I know
This is why I get SO frustrated, because language and the use of it, I believe causes the most problems and I think if we listened to what people DO, rather than the words they chose to describe it, things might be a lot easier amongst us all.

But its hard and more than a little frustrating too at times

This is getting interesting now!
Ive heard lots of people talk about OBE and Astral Projection, Journeying, Meditation, the 7 - 9 Worlds or Realms.
I am interested in all this, as someone who is heathen- ish, I m obviously aware of the 9 Norse Worlds connected to the Yggdrasil World tree, as a Healer I am used to rubbing shoulders with Christian Spiritualists (which may surprise some! ), so am also aware of the more Chakra related Realms.
Now what intesrests me is how many people travel OUT of their bodies, eg have an out of body experience in which they float a bit looking down on themselves and then fly off up into the clouds to others Worlds or Realms.
How many people travel INTO themselves and end up in other worlds via a more underground type route and how many just focus on a place or being and then just find themselves there?

A fylgya (or fetch), in heathenry, is part of the soul and so a part of us but can lead a separate independent existance. OFten takes the form of an animal and often of the opposite sex (no idea why). But there are different types - there's the fylgjukona which is a female human who is attached to the head of the family, or whoever. There's also a kinfylgja who is attached to a particular family. They confer luck and protection upon the individual or family.

Im also a little confused by the term Fetch, as I understand it this means an apparition, double, wraith of a living person, a thought form sent out to make its present known to someone, or to perform minor duties.
I know about Power Animals (Totems if you must call them that), which are seperate beings, with their own power, not just lent from someone.
So I can understand how a Power Animal would be of use in the Otherworlds, but would a Fetch be able to help? Or am I defining it wrongly?

The latter two for me. Sometimes I go into a trance and think of the place I want to be and there I am. Sometimes on the other hand it journey "underground" and usually have to walk to where I want to go.

Thanks Wulfric! That makes more sense to me than my definition! A sort of Guardian Spirit then.

See my reply before your post

If you ask some heathens they will tell you that a fylgja is not a power animal nor is it a spirit guide. What the distinctions are is not something I've ever bothered looking into. A fylgja can act as a guide and as protection in the otherworlds - it can also act as the same in this world. A fylgja will usually travel ahead of the person sussing out the terrain and if we listen can give warnings. It can also be sent to places by the person.

Thanks again wulfric! Ill see you later do doubt?
Ive had all 3, the OBE's are usually more like I'd assume Astral Projection is, eg I'm out of my body, but conscious of it, or at least able to see it! But that has only happened 3 times I am conscious of, 2 saved my life and the other was just interesting (discussed on another thread once), though I didnt try to move away from my body on any of these occassions!
The travelling inwards Ive always considered to be traveling to the Underworld, or Inner World as I often called it, a very well country, with regions in which I learned different things from different beings, which expanded as I learnt.
The just being there, via a place or being, was similar, though with different landscapes and teachers, most often here, I flew in Animal form or just appeared sitting on a rock, next to a teacher!
One of the reasons I stopped doing this much, was that I began to wonder how much of this was more Ego created than real!
So for a long time I refused to go anywhere and waited for things to come to me! This as Ive said on several occassions is still how I define Power Animals who work with me, eg No Physical Token, No Work.
Which I guess is why I have had so many skins etc just turn up over the years!
Nowadays the few Journeys I do do are very different and I do go to mainly physical places i know, often finding tokens there, in spirit and then going there soon after and picking them up for real.

Not uses: is.

My fylgja is me, and also not-me. other. Hard to explain until you experience it. this is the Heathen take. And my experience, long before I was either a pagan or a Heathen.



The shamans I know meet guides in the Otherworld. These guides are not part of them, but entirely 'other'.

I know nothing about totem animals except the NA take, where it is part of the tribe, not an individual.



My fylgja is, er, part of me and not. It acts an alert. I know Heathens who see it outside of themselves, whereas I am only aware of it inside me. I don't send it/him to places though I know when he's alert and, er, aware.

sorry about the 'er's: it's difficult to explain an experience.



I haven't come across this usage and can't answer to it. It's not Heathen, nor within my experience..



Ah. the one experience I had was when I tried to ask a wight for permission to enter its land and found something else there instead. I got the feeling some pagans might have been playing there and invited something in. Very nasty. I ran away. Even then, I still felt it two miles away.



heh. Quite.

Again I was taught to work both inward and outward, if that’s what people want to call it. To me it’s the 7 realms and the 7 shadow realms. Those just happen to be the names that I was taught to use. The shadow realms being either inward world or under world; what ever others prefer to call them. There is good and bad in both but that’s pretty much the same everywhere.

I can only go by the ways, method and experiences that my Elders taught me or put me in to teach myself usually via a hard lesson and experience.

CS: Like you I work with totem or power animals, and expect something from them, it’s a situation of mutual respect etc. Like you from the sounds of it I have over the years collected many skins etc.

Something here that may be of a minor interest, is that when I was originally taught all of this, I was taught to fast, pray and ask for guidance, then journey to find the animal that I was to hunt.

This animal would clearly identify itself to me as would the place that I would find it. Sure enough on the following day I would by what ever means usually horse back or foot and up in the right place, and sure enough that animal would indicate itself to me and I would hunt. This is how we all hunted for our food. It was the norm and never questioned and we’d always bring back food.

We did have to follow a set way of thanking that animal for its life so that we could survive and specific parts were left in specific ways out of respect for the animal and to thank who or what ever for a successful hunt. In a way this is very similar, we basically were working with that animal’s spirit to ensure a successful hunt.

People may choose to believe that or not, that is up to them, but it was what I was taught to do. I will add here that by taking a life any life we were also taught that we lose a small part of our own in payment. If we didn’t hunt though we didn’t eat or survive so it was kind of a catch 22 situation. There were no shops or supermarkets just around the corner; there wasn’t even a town within 2 days ride. So we worked with what we had around us. Anyway that’s getting away from the point.

Basically I think what ever each of us call things; they are very much the same in a lot of ways. As someone else quoted above here, it’s not the names we call things that matters it’s listening to other people and what they do that counts.

As to Ego, I lost most of that years ago, I also gave my horses permission at the same time to remind me of that lesson should I ever need it. They have done and will do, and they make me learn it double the next time that my ego even try’s to raise its head. And usually very publicly to my great embarrassment on some past occasions.

They are great levelers and teachers and I respect them for it, they teach me something new daily, as did the young stag that lived with me for a few years. They are after all just the physical living forms of some of my totem animals so they react in the same way and know me better than I know myself.

Siksika

A blue bubble, like the shields on Droidekas in Star Wars Ep. 1...

Funny, I've started to visualise a spherical, blue, transluscent bubble around me during meditation. It works well for me so far.

I'd forgotten about the Droidekas though - very amusing parallel!

It's hard work, you know, putting the bubble up and not going 'BDEW!BDEW!BDEW!' at people...

If it works for you 'Bdew' away!
As long as it keeps the awful 'Ja Ja Binx' (Something like that??!) out !!!

Hmmm, when I use music, I have it playing in the background, not through earphones, so when it ends I am usually well away by then.

it could be that having the music so up close could actually be interferring with your trance state as having earphones in almost gives you no choice but to focus on the music, but if you are focussed on that, you are not going to hit the trance state as easily. Do you see what I mean ?

Next time you try it, use a normal CD player and have the volume on low. See if that makes any difference.

Hey Moongazer that's a good idea, cheers mate, I'm going to give it a try later. Seem to get closer and closer every night to hitting it. Problem with me is, sometimes I get anxiety, not so much these days, but once or twice, the first few times I nearly hit a trance I had to stop. But one of the reasons for trying to hit one anyway is to conquer me fear of fear, so when the feeling comes I'm just going to grit my teeth and go with it I think.

I have to have music on quietly in the back ground as well. But anather thing that alot of people frget to do is turn off the phone's. There is nothing worse than forgetting this and your bought back real sharp all of a sudden because the damned phone has started ringing.

Siksika

Oh LOL, aint that the truth. Its even worse when you have kids in the house. Even the adult variety dont seem to grasp the concept of "I'd like some time to have a think!!"

Yeah ! don't I know that one. I send Oh out with the rugrats for and hour or 2, turn off the phone, tv and computer etc. Get everything ready,smudge and put my back ground music on. And hopefully when I relax I head off to where ever I need to. Dosn't always happen that way mind. But it usually works.

Siksika

Lol there are times when casting the sphere that I do call on the quarters, not in the "watchtower" way, but if im doing any form of elemental type stuff I will call upon the quarters for assisance. The terminology is always fun in these convos, Meditation to me is "head work", "astral travel" is moving out of your body but staying on this plain (never seen a cord either btw!) and then "trance work" is for journeying to different worlds. Thats how I always understood them. But with the journeying I never get much past Ydrassil (sp?) the beauty of it always stops me dead

I am trying to understand your very interesting path and I wonder if I can ask you a question? Since you take the name Siksika, is it safe to assume you are a member of that nation and live on their land? I ask because I have family who are of that nation and do live there .

Thanks,

Marto

Have Pm'ed you
Siksika

Going back to the OP - is anyone familiar with Jan Fries' book Seidways - which is a (particularly individual) take on Seidr? The whole business of "seething" is a technique that is missing from this discussion (as far as I can see), and certainly would seem to be the element that makes Seidr different from most other "journeying / shamanic" type activities (and would seem to have interesting comparisons (which are invidious as we all know) to other traditions - the tapas of the sadhu, for instance, and the "ebullito" of Thomas Aquinas' mysticism)

There's some controversy over Fries' use of that association; it's been challenged as dubious etymologically.

That aside, I'd be interested in what he's referring to by 'seething', if you'd feel inclined to explain?