Tas asked a question that I would like to discuss in the Cochrane thread.



I felt it was a discussion that needed more room than the thread it was on so here it is. I've always had problems with the concept of Fate, the idea that everything could be mapped out by some higher power is very unsettling. However though I dont like to think of everything being planned out, I do believe that certain key events ARE. So that our actions may change the when, where and how of them occurring but they will occur.

I have heard a lot of people talking about the concept of a calling. Too many for there not to be something in it. But I've not to my knowledge recieved or felt one so dont feel qualified to comment

I cant say that my experience is one of a calling.

A calling implies that there is a path to follow, that fter you realise, or have been nudged into it there is then something else for you to do. Like if you are called to be a Priest, you then go out and priestify!

Nothing nudged me to this and I dont feel I have "something" I need to do.

That was one aspect of the idea that troubled me for quite a while. But then I considered that maybe no need to "do" is felt because we are already doing?
That is a terrible sentence lol .

I have to admit the idea isnt a comfortable one, that "something" has a plan or atleast some form of goal in mind for everyone, too much like being a game piece on a board for my ego to handle .
I dont want to go back to questioning every decision and action on the basis of "Is this me or something else?".

But I can live with the idea that there is a basic skeleton of events that are "set" to occur, which we move through as we progress through life. So actually I do think there is a path laid out, but the idea scares me silly!

I've just finished reading Tolstoy's War and Peace. One of the central ideas in the book is that Napoleon was not a "genius", but rather an individual who just happened to be at the centre of a series of events that rocked Europe for about fifteen years. The dynamics that carried him across Europe to Russia were events that controlled him, rahter than the other way around. One of the ways he demonstrates this is in describing how the Russian General, Kutuzov, runs his staff. Recognising that the vast proportion of them have their own aims and motives, he concentrates on quashing anything that he recognises as hindering the "real" war. But most of the rest of the suggestions, advice, and offers of action he allows to carry on in the confidence that very little of it will actually come to pass, never mind affect the main activities.

Napoleon felt he had a calling. Tolstoy felt that he was mistaken. And Kutuzov had a calling, which was to defend Russia, and no more, and once the French had been driven over the borders, he was content to relinquish his position to others more interested in Glory and Achievement.

Yes, some people have "callings". And I've known people to imagine that they have callings for which they are clearly unsuited. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I get the nudges, but I haven't been "called" to a particular vocation.

Do you know the Hebrew legend of the 36 Just Men? These are characters in lowly occupations, whose work is essential to the survival of the human race. If one of these characters is identified, they will disappear, to be replaced by another one, elsewhere.

So we may be called, but not to do anything special. Just be there.

I tend to see my following of Djehuty as a calling. If anyone has a plan, it'll be Him. I tend not to view it in terms of being a piece on a chessboard, though it might be nice to be able to shift the responsibility for my own actions like that. Instead I see it in terms of being, well, what I've always been in one form or another: an agent of someone else, with instructions to follow as best I can. Any failure or success on my part is exactly that, though I am guided by Him and others. Being a small part of of a larger plan doesn't bother me, as I never saw myself as the Hero, if you see what I mean? More of a Mauve Shirt, really.

Mauve shirt pmsl thats brilliant!

Callings and fate. Complicated issues probably. I don't believe the future is fixed so fate can be changed. Some things are fixed - death for instance but the timing can be altered by our behaviour.

We are the victims of our reactions to circumstances, i.e., how we react will effect the outcome of the future. But since every decision we make, small or large, will effect the future then it's virtually impossible to predict as there are far too many variables. I wrote in my blog a while back that our reaction to things are also dependent on past decisions and reactions - not just of ourselves but also of everyone else. Everything plays a part.

As for callings. Depends what you believe in I suppose. Where does that calling come from? How do you know that whatever higher power knows better than us? Callings can be ignored. Do I have a calling? No idea to be honest. And a calling to what? What would you call a calling? Is being a good mother, for instance, a calling or is it down to other things? How do we define it? Tricky.

I don't know if I have a calling, but I did feel like I was avoiding Paganism for a long time whilst knowing that it was inevitable. I tried to ignore my spiritual side and received several unmistakable nudges to tell me to give over and accept it Once I did so it was like everything fell into place for me. All the crap in my life gradually fell away - the shitty soul-destroying job, the drunkenness, the shallow degrading "relationships", the bullying, the crappy situation with my family, the feeling of helplessness. I met my husband, I had my boy and we all lived happily ever after Mr S often quotes old Aleister Crowley - something about how when we're on the right path everything goes well - usually I don't set much store by the Great Beast but in this instance I'm inclined to agree

I get what you mean Ethereal, I've considered this many times, and dont like the thought of being 'manipulated' by the ptb. My inner control freak just rebels

However, I have been through too many experiences over the years that have reeked of something 'pushing' pieces into place, and the times I have ignored, it has indeed been a really difficult route for me. And you know what - life just chucks that same scenario right back at me a bit further down the line.

Like teaching adults - that cropped up for me twice and the route wasnt exactly how I wanted it, so I went a different way - and my choice of way got blocked both times - then suddenly, it was "do this" from a managerial real life ptb and next thing I know I am teaching young adults with difficulties - and I loved it, and I was good at it.

Now 'fate' (or whatever) is pulling me in a totally different direction by assaulting me with ill health, but I have been able to find the positives in this, and its leading me somewhere new.

is it a calling ? Not for me - pmsl - its more of a drag me kicking and screaming Gimme another 10 years or so, and then I'll probably know.

I subscribe to the idea that certain key events in life are meant to happen, however, I think we control the outcome (to some extent).

I think fate (for want of a better word) might have a hand a putting us in a certain time and place and then the rest of it is up to us. I think that’s the 'call' in 'calling'.

In my personal life I feel that I was 'called' to certain friends, my partner, my job and my paganism.

I don't know if it's similar for other deity doing dudes and dudettes, but the nudges you can get from them when they want your attention aren't really very subtle. More along the lines of being slapped upside the head with two pool balls in a sock, but sometimes its nice to have a bit of guidance. I know work wise as I move projects every couple of years I tend to leave where I go to totally in Hebe’s lap.

A bit like Moongazer, I always wanted to teach primary school, but was told I never could because of my epilepsy I failed fitness to teach guidelines. I consequently became a youth worker and ended up informal education, teaching young people permanently excluded from school. SO I ended up where I think I was supposed to be, even though it was a bit of a circuitous route.

Q

Cant be bothered with the quoting thang, but Queenie and Moongazer there are certain things as you have said that were "pushed" towards me (or me to them?) friends in particular. The Lost and Found is the term that I apply to our little "circle". I think we were put together because each of the group is carrying lessons for each other. That sounds so bizarre written down...

There are definate times when I have to look to the ptb and say "You are seriously joking right? No your not... oh." As has already been said (sorry forget by who) sometimes they give subtle nudges but occasionally its "thwack! DO THIS!!!"

Morrighan in particular has the habit of letting things go so far then stepping in and dragging me by the short and curlies

I just wondered if anyone else joining in this thread has read Conversations With God (an uncommon dialogue) by Neale Donald Walsch ? This book definitely shaped my life and my path and much of what I now believe ties in with this thread. However if no one else has read the book then this is probably not the time or place to discuss it. All I can say is that it was a OMG moment when things fell into place and made sense. The book applies to people of all faiths and none. A truly life changing read.

I think callings and fate are different things. They might act together sometimes but I do think they're inherently different. So here's how I see them:

Fate is something predestined that can't be changed or bartered with no matter how we may plead or want for something else. I have some pretty strong, and often conflicting, views on fate (that I'm going to try to not get into here), but by it's very nature fate is something that is out of our hands.

Callings on the other hand I don't think are predestined. They're often those nudges we feel from time to time. It's a feeling but it's not one you have to answer. Callings involve choice. You get to weigh them against your own desires and needs. Sometimes they fit with your life and sometimes they don't. Or so I think. The calling I answered that brought me to China has been good and bad. Great opportunities and learning... blah blah blah. It also took me from a town of 60,000 people with a 2 acre yard to a city of 24 million(ish) where space is a precious commodity, and no unregulated green spaces and no personal yards (Which is new and highly inconvenient for me and my dog).

I don't know that I said a single useful thing there, but it's frightfully early here and I wanted to get these thoughts down before sleeping. If it doesn't make any sense or there are too many parentheses just pretend it's insightful and illuminating because I'm too tired to proofread.

~Vertiline

Oh my goodness! Are you feeling alright?
Hmm, fate. I don't know... I believe that possibilities exist. Ever seen those Ant Habitat tanks? Sort of like that. But its the decisions we take that steer us through different routes inside our lives, which would otherwise have only been potential and not realised.
As for a calling, being Pagan isn't that for me really. It's just part of who I am. Perhaps my calling lies within a particular job or having a family... Don't know. *Shrugs But I think generally, the concepts of fate and callings are different. Well, you could have an unforfilled calling, but you couldn't get away from fate in its traditional sense.