I have a problem with addressing Deities and just wondered if anyone else had been in this situation and if so how did you resolve it?

As a Christian for most of my life, God was always Father or Lord or Jesus etc.
When I first came to this path the main stumbling block was the Goddess and my awkwardness in addressing Her. I believe that 'The All' is both male and female but does anyone else struggle with how to address Him/Her? I know that many Witches just use Mother or Lady but how can I incorporate the two? What one title addresses them both? I know this sounds really stupid (and I suppose it is) but when I speak to the One I feel I have bypassed the Other! Lol!

Yes I am registered bonkers! Humour me

How about "O Lady, Mother... "?

Could it be that you are missing out the third member of the trinity? It's Maiden, Mother and Crone, so you'd be missing out the maiden (or possibly the crone).
For me it's Clotho (the Mother) Lachesis (the Maiden) and Atropos (the Crone) incarnate as Anyanka, the strong fate. Anyanka is all three.

There are so many other female trinities it almost boggles the mind.
But if you invoked any one of them as "O Lady, Maiden, Mother, Crone" that would cover it.

Hmmm I understand this one gave me a lot of trouble for a very long time, never been good at communing with Deity in the direct sense. I utilise Lord and Lady mostly, unless addressing someone directly (as opposed to general deity if you see what I mean?). I dont think I have a catch all way of addressing both "parts" at once.

Over the years though it has seemed to me that without a term, if the method of address is clear in intention it generally makes it to the right ears. I'm sorry if this isnt very helpful, this one is aways quite personal and can be awkward I find.

Ah thanks for that Ethereal. I take comfort from the fact that maybe I am not alone in this. Thank you for your reply Fred in the Green though I was more concerned with combining the male and female aspects of Deity. Addressing the Mother is relatively easy because I relate to the Crone aspect but sometimes I feel the need to have a way to address the Whole.

I don't have your particular way of relating to deity, however I do relate to different deities as aspect or faces of a 'total' deity. When I relate to particular deities, I usually use epithets or honorifics. When I relate to the 'whole', I find it really doesn't matter a fig what I call it As long as it's meaningful to you, you can call it "The Great and Mysterious Binky" for all it matters. It's about how you relate to your deity: just experiment with names, titles, whatever, until you stumble upon something that expresses the experience of that relationship (if that makes any sense).



No, you're not bonkers. You're just adjusting to a new way of relating to deity. It happens to most people who 'change streams'

Caerthan

I kind of get around this problem, by using what I see as their concept as the answer.

I use male and female gods archetypes to attach names to, so as to allow me to communicate with them as I need to. This allows me to focus on aspects that I am interested in at the time.

When I need to use/feel/sense/attach... going to run out of words here,, I find it easier to side step names, as see it as more an inner part of me, and just relate to it, in a nameless, formless, covers everything sort of way.

Might be a cop out, but for me, if i don't need a name I get a much better link.

Wow what a load of ramblings... well it made sense to me before i started..

I use their names. Sometimes we'll use nicknames for Odin or Thor or whoever as they did have rather a lot - Odin had over 100 at the last count. But since I don't believe the gods are archetypes or facets of some nameless and rather vague entity then their names will suffice.

Why don't you ask her? As long as you're honest about what you want and why you want it, she won't bite.

I use their names when I'm talking to them and nicknames when talking about them, usually. A lot of them have formal terms of address that you can use, too. There's a reference to Djehuty in Egyptian writing as being addressed as 'O, Great Beakie One', which I admit I find highly amusing.
Personally, I believe that the Gods are no more or less a facet of one over-arching thing than we are, and seeing as how I don't address humans in such terms I don't do it to Them, either.

I use the names of my patrons, when asking anything directly of them.

When marking the passing of the seasons, I tend to be a bit more generic and use 'all Mother/all Father' or Goddesses/Gods of X,Y or Z. I've never had a male patron choose me for a moonbeam, so I go generic to include a little bit of male balance.

Though a friend was speculating if she was being prodded by Fides, and we did debate whether calling her 'Here Fides, here Fides, good girl' would be a really good way of royally pissing her off.

Q

Thank you all for your answers. It's really interesting to see the different ways we see and communicate with the Divine. Reading your comments I realise that what I have is a hangover from Christianity and the Paternal mind set. I love spending time with and talking to The Mother but there's always this little twinge of guilt that I am leaving
out/neglecting the Father. I really am a child in all of this in the true sense of the word. No doubt time will sort it out.



I think this is what I am doing at the moment Blaidd and it is probably what I will keep on doing until I finally manage to shake off the Patriarchal issues. Thanks to you all.

Leaving out the male deities can be a problem. A lot of people who are new "converts" from xianity tend to focus on the goddess as some sort of reaction to the strictly patriarchal system they come from. The important thing is balance, the male and female are equal even if you only work with the goddess or only with the god or only one god / goddess out of many. I feel that the best thing is to allow them to lead you in what is right and wrong, but always go with what you feel is best.

I just use their names. I don't see them as aspects of an overall deity or concept so to me they are literally individuals.

I did have a long discussion with one god as I refused point blank to use the usual name for him, so we agreed on something else.

I would have loved to be in on that one Moonhunter! Lol!

I haven't really met any deities yet, male or female, in my own journey from Christianity. If I want to say something generic I sometimes use Spirit which I feel kind of covers everything (I'm still at a pretty much "whatevers out there" stage), others I know use Great Spirit for something more specifically deityish if you see what I mean.

I experience(d) something similar having jettisoned the whole xian thing too. I address Brigit by her name or as 'My Lady' and Herne in similar ways as 'My lord' (note the lower case 'l'!) but often wondered if when I addressed/worked with one the t'other was jealous. Hmm a jealous god where'd that idea come from? LOL!

I can't imagine!

On a vaguely related note, I had to go to my kids church holiday club service today, they did the story of Elijah the prophet of God (the one true God) versus the prophets of Ba'al (an evil false god) and all that, the high point had to be when they had all the kids shouting out "Hail oh mighty Ba'al" and bowing down .

I sometimes wonder if there'll ever be anyone "goddy" or "goddessy" in my life, God with a big G never seemed as interested he was supposed to me and no one else seems to be either... ah well, we shall see.

They're probably metaphorically beating you over the head, waiting for you to notice.

Lol! I can't begin to imagine Eagledance! Nice to know I am not alone in this though.

I like 'Spirit' Moonrising. That could be used on all occasions I think. Thank you

Just throwing into the pot...

If you look at most of the stock wiccan rituals, most of them, use half a dozen names in them for the lord and lady. Now I know it's acknowledging the fact that they are known by all names, but sometimes it does read like you just can't make your mind up what your going to call them.

It gets more confuddling in coven work,, you have a coven god/goddess, your own personal god/goddess and then you do themed work with yet another god/goddess.

An lets not go anywhere near calling anything female by the wrong name !!

After a while your BOS starts to look more like a telephone directory

I use "Spirit" too, from my shamanic roots. I like the fact that it doesn't personify the one, or the all, and so doesn't approach it from a human-centric point of view, and also avoids the inherant gendering that generally comes from personification.

ah, but you see - they actually seem to like the genderisation, even if it doesn't make sense to us.

That may be so, but if you're refering to the "great all and everything", whatever you want to call it, it can be annoying to have to split it into two simply because our language is so inherantly genderd. I find it so anyway

Ditto

Agreed. And it seems a rather eukaryotic projection What meaning would a gendered/sexual deity have to a non-gendered/asexual entity?

Caerthan

Deities are 'part of' an overall deity. Deities are individuals.

I see no contradiction in those statements, and there's no problem with the naming of those entities.

Brighid is a case in point. A triple goddess - three goddesses making one single goddess - all called 'Brighid' both individually and collectively. The Celts didn't seem to have any problems with either composition or naming, so I suspect that either the intent or the object of that intent was a key factor.

Caerthan

A Wiccan friend from a while ago would use Mother and Father to adress both god and goddess, or would go for ED's use of Lord and Lady. Again, i'm one of those who would think of it as Spirit, or Energy rather than a particular deity.

peace,
Mothy

Very true too, Calling the Goddess by the one name that encompasses all three aspects at once, that way i guess no-one feels left out. so you would call on the goddess but rather than calling them individually, you call her as a whole.
hope that made sense, i'm lost already

peace,
Mothy

I'm not sure it matters, pick something that works for you. If they have a problem with it, they'll let you know and probably with that will come their preferred term. Or ask them first, of course.

A thread by any other name...http://thevalley.ukpagan.com/http://thevalley.ukpagan.com/index.php?showtopic=1906

As I follow Ancient Egyptian Paganism, and I am dedicated to Isis, I am lucky that I have tons of historical work to draw from. During devotional moments, morning and evening prayers for example, I always address Her as 'Lady Isis, Daughter of Nut, Daughter of Geb, Beloved of Osiris, Mother of Horus'. Which can be quite long winded, but it gets the point across! When talking to my friend, who is a full Priest of Isis, I always address Her as 'Lady Isis', but when I'm at home, doing the housework, I usually use 'Isis', as I feel that it is at those times, that we are often the closest. I know it sounds strange, but I treat Her as a member of my family, someone to talk to about the mysteries of the sock monster and the pyjama piranahs, never mind the laundry gnomes!! When my neighbour overheard part of one of these conversations, she thought I was talking to one of my sisters, I had to laugh, I don't get on that well with my blood relatives! My other half often walks in on our 'chats' and has commented that if christianity was that friendly and laid back, he'd join a church right now! Oh, by the way, I AM cracked!!!

I use Lady mostly since i tend to adress the feminine (a reaction to years of patriarchal xtian brainwashing) but I sometimes use Lord.
I've not had much to do with individuals as yet (although Hecate lurks over my sshoulder) so I don't use personal names yet.

I have a slight problem with the various names and associations (which God/dess maps to which if at all) so I'm wary of being insulting. Lady and Lord seem to cover most bases a the moment.
BM
xx

Same here