I read today on another forum (hi J.O. ) that Curses only work if the one being cursed believes in it , that it is purely psychological. It was in the context of a nutter, so I didn't disagree in that instance.

While there is a great deal of evidence for the power of suggestion (such as the placebo or nocebo effects ), I tend to have another view of this .

I believe that the most effective curses work (if they do) if the person being cursed doesn't know about it. After all, if one can't 'source' the problem , it's much more difficult to deal with.

Opinions pro or con?

Thanks,

Marto

IMO, regardless of the "recipient's" knowledge/awareness, curses work. Period.

I am split on this topic, having cursed people with varying result (yeah yeah, 3 fold law, yadda yadda).

In the case of Hoodoo, Voudon, African witchcraft and so on, the cursee is told about the curse every time. Whether by the witch/medicine person, or by the fact there is an obvious doll or slaughtered chicken in their vicinity. The belief in these methods is so strong the victim can fade immediately. And even if they don't, the people surrounding them must treat them differently. What have they done to get cursed? Maybe they will do it again. Alot of us know how unpleasant it is to be gossiped and lied about. This must be like that but by a factor of 100.

On the other hand.....

In English magic at least a curse is one of the strongest spells that can be done, if you really mean it. I don't mean passing a badly made poppet through candle smoke. I mean the careful building of enough hate and anger to make sure that spell works. If we agree that the any spell must have worked if there is a successful outcome, then at least one of my curses worked. Whether it worked because of the cure or because this person 'had it coming' is the question. However, I will probably not be doing another one. Not because I am all sparkly and we should all love each other. Anyone who knows me knows I can be a complete bitch. It is because no-one is really worth that kind of energy expenditure. Sometimes it really is more satisfying to be the bigger person, and it can drive people mad when you behave like nothing they can do will ever affect you. This is where headology really comes in - the best revenge is a life well lived.

I would of recently agreed that you need the power of suggustion to make a curse effective.

But at present I not so sure..

I have recently had a very bad split from someone, and alot of hostility between us.

With all that was going on, it would have been really easy for me to unleash half a dozen curses at the person. And everyone on my side of the fence would have said deserved too.. But I didn't... Cursing isn't me..

But what I do have,, is an amazing amount of negativity towards that person, that is taking a long time to fade out.

Also this person is a devout catholic and doesn't believe any of the mumbo jumbo that i do.. even with direct unexplainable proofs of magic she still refused to believe, so the idea of suggustion would be useless here.

Since the split,, there has been an unbelievable amount of bad luck, things going wrong, from losing job for a bizarre reason to household applicances failing constantly. And very weird unexplainable events in her house.

Now my friends all think I have Hex'd her to the underworld, and are giving me serious kudos for how much damage it is causing, but there are no hexes, few people think that her karma is coming back around in a tidal wave. possibly..

I'm starting to think, that just having negative energy towards someone, specially if there is a close personal link is enough to bring about curses and hexes on that person, and although they are unspecific, what has happened does bare some correlation to some of the thoughts i have had towards her..

So I now think, if the energy is strong enough,,, whether they believe or not,, you can still wreck havoc in someones life.

Sad part of this is,, I don't wish this person any harm, and certainly feel terrible for all that has happened, but her actions created my negative energy and only time will allow that to go down.

Wyrdwoman. I've got more Respect for a Curser than a Fluffy


Did I say that? (what forum? eh? was it me?)
I don't rememeber and maybe its a little out of context.

Curses work Both ways. If you Curse witout telling the victim then its like Prachettes Aoxim "It dosen't matter if You belive in the Gods, What matters is the Gods belive in you."
Of course Infoming someone of a curse can give a Psycholigical advantage, every little spot of bad luck becomes attributed to the curse and the victin in effect curses themselves.

Amazing. Something similar happened to me years ago. I had a bad split from someone who, with hindsight, was very controlling and abused me emotionally. Not long after he lost his job and home, and a couple of months later his other girlfriend (long story).

I think John may be onto something here.

That's probably wise.

Also, we should bear in mind that any witch or magician (and who else is a witch or magician going to curse?) worth their salt should know where the curse is from.

Curses do work, of course. I don't believe in the 3 fold law or Karma or anything like that. Also I don't believe in throwing curses without due thought and a cooling down period. Some things can be laughed off but if someone has done something to me or my family then revenge will be exacted.

Most of the heathens I know have no moral hang-ups about placing curses/insults when necessary. Some call on the gods to aid in the curse. Some will carve the curse in runes, others will just call on the gods to witness the curse they are placing, either verbally or on a nidpole.

It's about the intent and the direction of the intent. I'd never curse someone when I was angry because it is better to dwell on these things and be calm and collected when placing a curse, at least that's how many heathens I know see it and it does work.

"who else is a witch or magician going to curse?"

Eh? Soooo - Witches are somehow under a constraint as to whom they curse? Interesting.

Didn't say that.

It was a mildly flippant remark to put forward the idea that the only people who can upset a witch or magician enough to do a rather hefty spell is most likely to be another witch or magician. Seriously, would you put that kind of effort into something against someone who shortchanged you? I admit that one of the largest 'circle curses' I ever heard of was against a paedophile, but that is rare.

But nowhere did I say that we can only curse other witches and magicians. Only that they would probably be the most likely to cause us enough anger and/or harm to do so.

True - you asked who else (other than a fellow practitioner) a Witch WOULD curse. I can think of plenty, and not one of those recipients would have done anything so innocuous as merely shortchanging! Now that IS what I call a rather flippant analogy.

wher I come from there is an age old tradition of cursing, and an enitre body of poetic literature about it. Curses do work in my experience and I would never tell anyone they were being cursed - if you have to do that to make it work then you're doing something wrong
I would not wast time cursing someone for something trivial but that's just me I tend to be very laidback, I get annoyed and get over it very quickly. it has to be fairly serious for me to react to it.

Indeed Tas. As I mentioned above I know many heathens who would curse/insult someone if wronged and they wouldn't describe themselves as a witch.

Well maybe it has only been other witches and magicians who have hurt me enough to actually curse them, so apologies for placing a personal viewpoint on something that didn't need it. I just don't see the need to curse bosses, ex-boyfriends, and family members. A magical problem tends towards a magical response. A mundane problem gets a mundane response. In my opinion, anyway.

No worries.

I agree that it is better to seek a mundane response. But it depends on the individual and what has actually occured of course. I've only felt the need to place a curse once and all other occurances have been resolved through more mundane means - not that there's many mind you

Yes, curses work. And if you are cursing another witch it would be foolish to let them know

But a witch who knows their stuff knows when they are being cursed (or hexed, cos they are different, and I think a curse is worse tbh because it will loop around wreaking havoc, whereas a hex is one short sharp blast) amd can take steps against it, and might even be able to 'taste' who it has come from.

And images of Disney's Merlin and Mad Madam Mimm spring to mind here - 2 witches trying to blast each other to smithereens.

It's very interesting that the issue of pure bad feeling has been raised because this is partly why I describe untrained witches who have loads of natural talent 'loose cannons' because they can cause all kinds of grief just by being angry and hurt. No offence intended towards you Blaidd, so please dont think that, but I have experienced it from the other side, out of someone's jealousy, not out of me causing them hurt. If I had caused hurt I would have accepted the 'punishment' more.

But it is an interesting lesson to learn, and one I also had to be reminded of a couple of years ago when I was feeling particularly angry with a certain individual. I too felt awful about it. But its a reminder that we need to exert control over what we are doing with those negative feelings and sometimes if you are a witch allowing them to blast out at full volume isnt such a great idea.

I don't think it matters whether the person being cursed knows about it, and in all probability it's safer if they don't know. The only way knowing you are cursed makes a differnece is psychologically, if you believe you're cursed then anything that is not positive for you will be viewed as being down to the curse. What DOES matter is the intention of the person doing the cursing, and how much oomph they put into it.

About what Blaidd said, about the possibility of your own hate affecting someone else even without you having specifically directed it in a curse:

Is it not possible that as a result of a split filled with negative emotion, the other person might be doing a self-destruct? i.e. although you feel hate towards them, it is rather their own hate turned in to themselves that could be doing the damage?

Mind you, I agree with Moongazer that if you have negative emotion in you as a result of something, you do need to deal with it, if only because it affects you in your own life, clouds your judgement, stops you from functioning satisfactorily. The event may be in the past and you may think you are over it, but if you still feel the negative energy, you are still letting the event affect you for as long as you harbour those feelings.

That's how I figure a good 'curse' works any way - a bit like Judo where one uses one's opponents moves against them. I believe in 'object lessons' but the best way to learn is to keep making the same mistake and see the result. So, all it requires is giving that momentum a little nudge.

I believe the people MOST receptive to 'curses' are those who are already hate-filled. They tend to run on emotion and that's where they will experience those 'lessons' (or not - they just may end up always eating alone!).

I would never act out of hate or malice. I can't think of a person I have truly ever 'hated', even some extreme villains. Perhaps because of what I do, I know that people think and behave in so many complex ways and that one cannot always 'judge'.

My main defense is simply to blank some one out of my life. Every spare second of thought I give them allows them some 'power' over me - so I don't. Having said that, if that person keeps trying to intrude upon MY life when I'm happy to leave them alone, I may very well try and 'do' something if mundane procedures don't work.

And it's very cathartic even if it's a delusion on my part. A bit like 'closure', if you know what I mean.

Marto

Hi Marto

My main defense is simply to blank some one out of my life. Every spare second of thought I give them allows them some 'power' over me

Ahh! The silence of the bitter Sea...

There can be no finer a response to those who wish us ill.

Agreed.