Lovely title, eh? nothing like a touch of the 'forbidden' to draw the attention.

I don't do cursing in the sense of ill-wishing. Until recently I assumed it was simply that I'd never had cause, given it would have to be something serious, such as against evil I'd met personally. However, I've had cause recently to talk to my gods about this and was slightly gob-smacked to discover I've got a geas on the subject. It's a sort of deal, which has been around since a major even in my life a few years back. I'm not sure how that works if I ever do fall across a bit of real evil, but, for now, it's there, and I'll observe it. Oh, I was seriously tempted once - shortly after the geas was in place something or Someone came along during a working and tried to get me to cross the line, but I didn't.

Mind you, it doesn't stop me doing some deadly serious stuff short of that.

So what - if anything -is forbidden to you? and why? And by whom - yourself or something else? Does your path have types of magic you don't use?

I'm a pragmatist and to be honest there is pretty much nothing I won't do to protect me and mine.

I wouldn't do anything to compromise my own personal morals and don't think you need to - magic is so wide a field. However I would have no problem with cracking out the nasties in order to protect me and mine.

I have to agree with Els on this one.

I would never rule anything out. I'm 35 and I have seriously cursed/hexed once in my life. I have now and had then, no qualms about doing it.

I can't imagine the circumstances that would make me want to kill someone. I've never felt that amount of hatred or anger. So I can say, that today, as things are right now, I dont think it is something I would ever have cause to use. But again, I wouldn't rule it out.

With regards to you not cursing people. I take it that means you never perform any magick that would have a negative effect on someone by its creation. Um.. just to illustrate cause Im not sure its clear what I mean. A working that causes someone to be harmed because it reflects their attemtps to hurt you, either with gossip, or reflecting a curse they set on you... is not a curse. However any magick that creates a negative effect because of its creation is a curse... like "I hope your car never starts!" curses are a matter of degrees.

For example, if I were to put something on someone like "may your tongue burn every time you tell a lie" Thats a curse, I wouldnt really look on it as one tho. Whereas, creating someones descent into madness or splitting a relationship... to me thats a curse.

Not being on a recognised path nothing is forbidden to me. I forbid myself a few things; anything to do with money, anything i consider dangerous to myself or to others (magically speaking i mean) and number one, anything i feel at the moment that i may not be able to handle regradless of the importance of what i want to do or of good experiences with the same thingin the past. Sometimes i feel strong, sometimes i don't.
I also forbid myself any attempts to disturb 'spirits'. If they want, they can contact me.
I have only recently started binding and banishing and hexing with any degree of seriousness but force myself to wait a whole moon cycle and a bit before doing so.
Other than that, anything goes.

Ohhh a nice moral minefeild. (please bear with me if this makes no sense I'm knakerd)
If your own Moral Compass that forbids you from doing certian acts such as Revenge, Curses, Then I would say that A presons own Moral Perspective is allways changing as we are the product of Our actions (and our own incations). So there is a truism in the saying "Nothing is forbidden, everthing is Permitted." its just a question of where on your own personal timeline you are.
Howver if your chosen system has "forbidden" styles, I would serously question wether follwing that system was a Good Idea, Who is to decide what others may or may not use, Who is to decide what infomration should be public and what shoud be secret?
To try and Answer your Questions.


"So what - if anything -is forbidden to you?"
Erm Nothing really (short cliffnotes answer)

" and why?"

My Own Moral compass guides me.


"And by whom?"

There is no Grand PooBah I am answable to, No Voldermort or Dumbledore, Although there are many who would like to think they are.


" yourself or something else?"

There are people in the CM world who's opinion I respect and whos advice I take. And sometimes i have been prodded by "Entites" to do/not do someting.

"Does your path have types of magic you don't use?"

Nope, Nuet, Nada. I'm quite open about the diffrent forms, of CM I have used.

Heh, I think we are in perfect agreement. I don't see protection (including reflection) as cursing. A curse to me is initiating the ill-wishing, as in anything from "may your oven thermostat fail in the middle of Christmas Day when its your turn to feed the family, and that's when Uncle Joe decides to tell his children he's not their father" to wishing out and out murder, madness and severe mayhem on someone.

Woozle, dear - how far do you go with your hexing?

I hadn't really given this much thought.. You got me thinking - Ouch!!

Given that I'm not that vengeful a person, I don't see that I'd do owt particulaly nasty on purpose, I just can't be arsed, frankly to waste my energy on someone/something undeserving of my attentions.
If someone was seriously putting me or mine in danger, then too right I'd do something about it, without second thought but even then, I'm not sure I'd go all out to hurt to the quick.. it's the little things which are more annoying imo
I have used banishing and reflective workings but don't see them as curses or hexes, more a ' I don't need to live with this shit'

Like I've said already, magick is a personal thing imo and I don't see how you can separate the magick from the person working it. By nature, what's inside will come out in your magick there for, should I ever work a real mean ( by my definition of mean ) hex or curse, then I'd only be returning whatever damage someone had created in me...And I wouldn't feel bad as a result- reap what you sow..

Barn

Interesting way of looking at it. Pretty reasonable too. But what about people who react out of proportion to whats happening. Like those people who loose their temper over small things?

That's interesting, Barnowl. Would their intent/state of mind make any difference to you? By that I mean: are there any mitigating factors, such as mental illness or other potential lack of responsibility, or would it simply be pain for pain?

Well, given that I think ( or hope ) that I'm quite a rational person and thankfully, I don't rise easily to bait, what I'd give out hypothetically, would be proportionate, again, it comes back to the individual. I just don't see how you can separate the individual from the magick. If you've got the rationalle to sit down and actively think.. 'what do really intend here', you've in effect, calmed your temper prior to any workings..




I would say that their intent/state of mind would have everything to do with it. Again, I'm thankfully, quite aware of my self and wouldn't fly out curses willy nilly. I'd trust in my own judgement enough to appreciate a situation for what is was before taking action. But like I said, if someone created a real pain in me ( intentionally), I'd return it to them and not feel bad.

Barnx

I can't imagine what, who and why something could 'forbid' a conscious and unconstrained person from allowing or denying themselves an action.

It seems to me that what a person is like will dictate how they will act. For example, I can't imagine someone who would hit a child or drive while drunk suddenly having qualms about trying to hurt the neighbour with 'magic'.

I do wonder something , though.

If a person believes they can take a life with a curse, and if they think their curse DOES take someone's life, why wouldn't someone just take the 'cursed' person's life the mundane way? Murder is murder, isn't it? After all, one could never really know if they caused someone's demise with magic. Wouldn't it be better to stick in the blade and give it good upward thrust, watch the person's mouth fill with blood and the light of life fade from their eyes? Then one could be sure that THEY, they themselves, killed someone.

What about mistakes? Say you see a hated neighbour take out their trash and notice some hair clippings ( if one uses this type of 'magic'). So you grab some, get out the poppet or curse means of choice and 'magically' create their death. The next day, the neighbours kid sporting his/her new hair cut runs out into the road and is hit by a car and killed. Hmmm. Not much satisfaction there.

As JohnOdin pointed out, everyone has a 'moral compass'. I can't see why 'magic' would fall outside of it for anyone, indeed, I don't see how it could. We are who we are and will act accordingly.

I think the answer to why someone would hide behind a hex or curse is so as not to have to pay the piper . That's just my opinion. It's a way of feeling empowered and in control without the messy details of actual confrontation. Again, not very satisfying and really, without proof that our actions did something, without 'power'.

I can think of very few life situations which cannot be dealt with 'in person' . Of course, I'm not a vengeful type . By allowing myself to carry around a lot of hate and ill-will, I feel I am indeed allowing someone to control ME. If it is someone I don't like, that just cubes the effect of not wanting them to have any emotional power over me.

If someone hurt someone I loved, hurting them back will not remove the original hurt. What's the point except to feel one has done something, anything to feel the control we all need to feel - the control of our own lives, the feeling that we can control those things which may hurt those we love and like, our strength and our identity?

We will do what we will do. I'm not so sanguine in my ability to bend the occurrences in the universe that something I will do will pin-point with laser permission the object of my concern and not have rebound effects, even if those effects are the hurt and devastation of the innocent family members of someone I decided I had the RIGHT to hurt. With my 'magic'. With a knife. With ill-will.

To judge others, one must have ALL the facts, not just those effecting you. Are people so sure of their own 'rightness' in things? I envy that. Also, if someone is actively hurting someone I love, I'm not going to walk away and take the time to construct some kind of 'curse', I think direct action is called for. I'd rather not be late to help someone .

Still, imagining 'vengence' scenario's can be a healthy way to let off internal turmoil. Acting on something? If one thinks they should, then do so. In my book though, it doesn't count if I want them to know it comes from me and I don't let them see that. But again, I just can't care enough about toxic people to try and 'fix' them - I'd rather just erase them from my life, I'd rather walk away.

Marto

Love Spells. the type 'make X fall in love with Y'.

tantamount to rape if you ask me.

other then that - nothing is out of bounds. if the need to curse someone arises, then it is open season as far as i am concerned. not need to do it that often up till now.

As a general rule, never say never and always consider 'blessings' and 'curses' as equally seriously, after all they're often the same thing viewed from two different places.

Yup, I would agree with that.



I suppose its the same thing as choosing how. Its just another weapon. Knife, gun, car, poison, magick. Personal preferance. And sometimes, you cant get to the person you want to harm.



I have to say that only a complete idiot would do something like that. I'm not saying there aren't idiots out there who have done that, but then, I am not responsible for them. I am only responsible for me. I dont drink and drive, but there's not a lot I can do about someone else who does.



*shrugs* your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I do have to ask, what piper? The law of the land? Gods? As for without proof... well.. again, I suppose thats a matter of opinion really. If I cursed someoen to death and they died, I'd be taking that as proof.



No it wouldn't and I have to admit, I am against capital punishment and I did say I can not think of a circumstance where I would use a death hex. However, other curses? Yes I would use them and have used them and I have felt justified in doing so and it was a matter of justice, and retribution not vengance.

By 'paying the piper' I meant if someone did something the work-a-day way ( knife to the neck or somat), they'd have to to face work-a-day consequences ( police, court, jail, etc.).

Would you say that 'murder by curse' is still murder? Serious question.

Marto

Yeah but really hard to prove


Serious Answer. Yes its murder. But maybe the question should be "Is Murder Justifiable?" Which I sppose brings me back to the old "Moral Compass" argument.

Or as another Moral Argument "If there was a 100% undetectable unreacable zero repicussions way to commit murder, would the crime be easier to commit?"

Yes. I would. It is still murder.

Then again I think there are degrees of murder. For example, a woman who has been abused all her life and finally kills her husband in his sleep with a kitchen knife is murder, but its understandable.

A father who hunts down and shoots the man who raped and killed his daughter has comitted murder too, but again... understandable.

I do not subscribe to capital punishment. I do not believe taking a life can ever really be justified, but I can understand it at times.

As for the "work a day"... well... most people who try to commit murder try to make sure they dont get caught and they only have to face those consequences IF they get caught. I dont really see the difference. Is it wrong beause its more efficient? Because it doesnt give the authorities the chance to catch you? Is it not considered "cricket" to be able to get away with something? Is a murder more acceptable because you played by the "work a day" rules? I don't think so. Murder is murder.

Thanks. That answers my question. So the next question ( isn't there always one ? ) is if the burden of having committed a murder ( with all that entails - the fact that the people who cared for the one you killed will be devastated, they never get another chance, one sets themselves up as judge and jury, etc., etc. ) do these considerations still pertain?

I agree that 'understanding' and 'doing' are very different items. What bothers me is that if someone naffs a person off, the person that gets angry may just have well have been in the wrong from the other person's point of view. That's what makes a lot of this difficult. Because basically, if magic works, then it gives license to anyone who feels hard done by ( even if they aren't) to wreak a dreadful vengeance on someone else without benefit of all the 'facts' or the other person getting a 'defence'. That scares me. All I have to do is look at someplace like the U.S. to see where that kind of thinking leads on a grand scale. ( look at 'gang' justifications for killing others).

Marto

This discussion is really relevant to me at the moment.

My daughter is facing some really unpleasant stuff at school, I have tried to protect her, we have talked about keeping safe and how she reacts and giving her strategies.I have informed the school, I have spoken to her class teacher, I have done stuff by the book and now I am keeping her off school.

I want to "bind" the behaviour but not the child and like ,I think it may have been Marto who said this, I don,t know the full or whole facts, all I know is how traumatising this is for my daughter, I am reticent to do this.I would be working from a degree of calmness but I don,t think I could get total peace.I don,t know if it is handy in these situations to have someone on hand(and there are) to step in and help with any workings but because of the doubt, I will probably do "nought".

So I have to think around this, what are my options, this boy /s are going to remain in school, my daughter has to remain in school, unless I remove her(an option)
So I prepare myself, I gather up all knowledge to present to the school , to say "x" has happened and because of this surely you should now be doing"y"?
I find out my rights and I get myself ready to deal with this but how do I keep the boy away from my daughter? When this same boy was bullying her before, I did affirmations, candle workings, oil of cloves in the shoes, the whole shielding protective bubble thing and it only worked to a degree as she was still bullied.I tried to think good thoughts towards him and his(very, very difficult) I tried to understand(but how can you, really?) I jumped up and down and made sooo much noise up at the school.

I just feel that I need to shift my "focus" perhaps and not necessarily onto the parents, do others feel that in doing a binding they are binding themselves to aspects of the binding? I would hate to be bound to that and the possible situation(which I know none of)

My moral radar is telling me no because it is a child but I want to bind his mouth I want to bind it soooo tight he can,t say what he has been saying But what if he is saying all of this for a reason? Who knows?

Could I make my daughter less attractive to him?

What could I do?

MM08

My usual rule for non-mundane things is how many people/situations/ complications are involved. In this case, far too many ( in my opinion) to do something 'magically' and hope it covers all bases.

What would I do?

First, ask if the school has a 0 tolerance for bullying. Do NOT underestimate it's effects ( and I can tell you don't!). Demand the school do something. I have found two 'magic' words - Lawyer and media work wonders.

What about talking to the boys parents? They may or may not know, but I doubt they really know. If they are amenable, there is nothing like yourself and your daughter meeting with them and their son and laying it out for them.

If it gets bad, do NOT hesitate to contact the police. I know, I know, they are overworked. But should you luck into a sympathetic p.c., ask for their help. The police have seen the consequences too many times of ignoring such things and they would probably help you. ESPECIALLY if he has bullied her before.

All else fails? Take her out. Let the school know why, even suggest ( even if you don't intend to) that you will also be speaking with the media about why YOU had to deprive your child of an education because you couldn't be there to protect her.

Always remember, she is young, she can accomplish from home or school . The most important thing for her is to know you take her concerns VERY seriously and there is nothing she can't tell you.

IT'S NOT HER FAULT and let her know you are in her corner all the way.

Making her 'less attractive' in any way puts the onus on her for the problems she is experiencing. She needs to know she can be as attractive as she is and that is not some kind of invitation to harassment. Also, 'attractiveness' is so important at a young age. You wouldn't want to deprive her of a confidence builder.

Marto

forbidden mmmm how attractive a word is that like Els and Xalle i use my own moral compass. but protecing mine i will do whatever it takes.

would i use magik for murder. in a heartbeat if i wad thus threatened and no other way was available. yes i would pay the price and happily so if the threat had gone.

i have recently had a few problems that really needed to be addressed. yes i did an extreme binding on an ex that was starting to threaten me personally. then i took the bull by the horn and did the binding on my stepford mother. i am a different person since then. my mental balance is back. i laugh and smile again. will i pay a price yes probably. will it be worth it too right it will be.

as was said i dont do the love binding love is an emotion that needs growth not magik.

just my own take on it

Happy to answer as best I can from my perspective.

Peoples actions are their own. If someone behaved in such a way that it caused me to believe that the only way I would be able to gain justice was to take their life, then in my eyes, THEY are responsible for the suffering their family will go through not me. I didn't cause it, they did. Yes, thats rather cold, probably heartless. I do feel tho, that if I was forced down that route...

Put it this way. If someone went to attack my little sister with a knife and I had a gun, I would pull the trigger without a second thought. I know thats different, that is prevention, defence. But the outcome is the same. Someone is dead, by my hand. People will suffer because of that. I could live with it.

Again... problems working this one out because I cant think of a reason to kill someone. If someone killed my sister, would I death Hex them? No... I wouldnt, I would make them suffer in pain, misery and madness, for the rest of their life. Maybe thats less merciful than murder?!

I agree with your last comment Marto. Although I will say one thing. I have found that those who could actually do you harm are few and far between and joe blogs whipping up a curse is about as effective as being stabbed with a rubber knife. In fact, many who claim they can do it cant, and the other thing I've noticed, is that the more easily someone turns to magick for solutions, the less likely they are to have any ability.

Thank you Marto for your very prompt reply, the school has just contacted me, things are hopefully more in motion, I love the way you construct your responses, in answer. . .

The school has what they call a "No blame" approach to bullying(I can,t even go there. . in theory yes, if carried out correctly yes. . BUT .. . )
I have also used "Chair of Governors", the "Education Dept" and the local rag so see where you are coming from there



The talking to boy,s parents definately not an option unfortunately, but I have to say this did work with the parents of a particularly poor messed up little "shit" who spat on his hand and then slapped her around the face.I "put" the idea of moving schools into the fathers head and bingo 3 months later they had gone but in fairness they were probably considering it but I did put forward a very persuasive argument.

Contacting the police has been considered and it is there on the back burner.

She definately knows how seriously I take anything she says to me especially when it is something like this.She knows she has done no wrong and the making her less attractive thing, that was me musing, thinking things through I wouldn,t do that as she is very conscious of and pleased with her appearance even though she wears glasses and feels a little self conscious about that at times.Her confidence for the most part is very high, that is one of the reasons he continues to bully her as he can,t crack her. I think I was thinking in another way but find it hard to put into words.

MM08

In fact, many who claim they can do it cant, and the other thing I've noticed, is that the more easily someone turns to magick for solutions, the less likely they are to have any ability.


[/quote]

I agree with that xalle

MM08

How about a ring of protection around her? What someone once called the 'ready brek' effect (though, if you never saw the ads you won't have the vaguest idea what that is! ). Can you set up something to deflect, or, better still, reflect? Rather like wearing those mirrored sunglasses, but all over...

Hi Moonhunter, yep have done all of that before but think I will concentrate more on the reflecting this time round, thank you.She has been given this red card that she can use against him, its bally stupid, apparently if she feels under threat she can use it to get to a teacher or into school! I know where I would like to see it go. . .

MM08

Generally that moral compass thing kicks in... but there have been times (even relatively recently) when the moral compass has said 'Go for it!' It takes an awful lot to get me really mad... enough to want to act on it. Some things will have been building up for years before I get to the point where enough is enough. I've been told I'm too forgiving. That is because people don't very often see what happens when that forgiveness has been taken as far as it goes and beyond. It just doesn't happen very often. Still, even then, a 'curse' from me only has a limited lifespan. Generally doesn't need to have anyway as, once it has done what it was intended to do I'm ready to walk away. I've yet to need to do anything long term and, quite frankly I hope I never have to. The moral compass would be reluctant to allow something like that.

Not sure why I've posted on this thread as I tend not to speak of these things outside of close friends. Suffice to say it is a rare thing for me to 'curse'. But if someone is foolish enough to provide me with enough fuel to do so.....

BB

Mike

I've never really done a seriously bad curse (like the one Xalle mentioned) but I would consider something that would teach someone a lesson.

I just don't get sufficiently angry/motivated enough to do this sort of thing. but then again...ya never know.

fizz

Veering off topic ever so slightly. Has anyone else notice how as they age a little (ahem 37 and still counting) Then they become a bit more live and let die about things. (slights, insults, perceptions and the like) But much less wolly liberal about the bigger things (What merits the Death Penalty)
A Psychopherapst freind of mine swears that over 40's really don't give a toss about what other people think of them.

Myself I'm looking forwards to have no more middle gears

When BB had some problems at school (very minor ones) I just asked for it to stop.
I placed her under protection and asked that the bullyinw stop. It did.
I think you can tie yourself in knots trying to cover the bases on something like this. I wanted it to stop and I didn't care how. It's not for me to second-guess the cosmos I just wanted BB to feel happy about being at school again.
BM
xx

MM08, best thing you can do is strengthen your daughter's confidence so that she can stop it herself. If she can stand up, look the kid in the eye and say loud and clear 'No, you dont' get to do this', 9 times out of 10 it stops there. She's just got to believe she's worth defending. You could do that by magical means, but you can do it just as well without any magic at all.

Hi Esk, she,s done all of that, she,s not scared of him, she,s one of the few to stand up to him.But I will be talking to her again about what she can say, thank you

MM08

Thank you Badgers moon.

MM08

Now back to the topic in hand. . . .and what moonhunter originally posted about

I,m not trying to moderate this, just draw a line under my little dilema

MM08

thank you MM08

It's part of the problem in hand though chick.
Forbidden isn't really a static thing. Something one would normally think of as "forbidden" might just fly out of the window when it comes down to protection or defence.
I once cursed someone, some while ago, long before hte idea of Paganism and Magic ever occurred to me. It wasn't in self defence and only my pride had been hurt really. I did it almost as a joke, more to get the anger out of my system and I was shocked at how well it worked. So now I think very hard about cursing and in fact I haven't done it since. For me it's "forbidden".
However if one of mine were to be threatned or harmed I've no doubt I would do it again.
BM
xx

JO put things quite nicely. I've my own moral compass. I'm not huge of the hexing 'n cursing side of things. The couple of times that I've bound people, it's scared me a little just how effective the workings were.

I work with my PTB's and, at times they've proven to be a lot less forgiving than me.

I've never had a scenario where I felt that I needed to do something that that my Gods wouldn't condone, or they might suggest 'Hey, Q, thats not the most fantastic idea you've ever had'.

All that said, I don't know how and when my moral perspective might change. I can't see it changing, I have values and beliefs that I hold to. But never, say never, I could imagine scenarious where I might be tempted to go on a hex-a-poolza, but then I'd question how effectively I would work if I was in that much of a rage.

Q

In my own experices, Very well, sometimes scarily so.
A Rage or Anger does not alter the results, The Rage will sometimes cloud clear judgement.
This whole "You can't do Magic unless you are clear headed and calm" is someting of a Urban Myth. Its more advisable to do Magic when you are clear and calm.

I would hope you never have to find out How "Angry" magic works Queenie. If you do then it can sometimes put a whole new perspective on things and be cause for periods of self reflection.

Sorry to wander off topic a little but this whole "You can only do Magic in certain circumstances" is a bit of a bugbear of mine.

I kinda agree with this. I think you can work very potent magick in a rage. However and I think the reason people say "you cant or shouldn't" is the sort of myth to make people exercise caution.

Considering that when you are in a temper you dont think things through, and considering how tightly magick needs to be nailed down (you need to be precise), the chances of managing that while in a temper is slim. I think its maybe less about how effective the magick will be and more about not having it either being too much (out of proportion to the actual incident) or blowing your own head off. (metaphorically of course ) if you see what I mean?

never done anything major, but a few months ago on the train, a group of tweenage lads were chucking what looked like the entire packaging of their calorific lunch out the window, piece by piece. In this day and age where you're likely to get stabbed in the face by anyone, I was too scared to go up in person (my trains have got quite notorious of late for being pretty dangerous) but a nice muttering to myself of:

Goddess Hecate hear my call
On their heads let bird-s**t fall

made me feel better if nothing else. And I sincerely hope it happened.

(that said, I was a little wary of getting it back, so was glad of the rain for the next while so I could keep my hood or umbrella up just in case!)

I've used pure fury to very good effect in the past - narrowed it down to focus on a working over a period of hours. Most effective piece of magic I've ever done - extremely satisfactory results within 24 hours.

Mind you, that was also the working where I was tempted to pass over into doing something more like revenge.

Anger or better fury is wonderful, if scary. In the past i swore i would never hex again or do anything similar but I did a working recently to stay the hand of my neighbour and put a stop to his arrogance and destruction of the land. It was the second working in my life where anger dominated and the second time the result has unnerved me. I seem to be taken very literally because the cruely i felt during the working was manifest in all its glory. The very next day he caught his right hand in the worm-screw as he was repairing his snow plough (the hand he uses to drive his digger) and laid one hand bare to the bone writst to finger tip and almost ripped his fingers off. Four months out of action, out of sight and out of mind and he lost his window for destroying the land and has seemingly lost interst now and to boot, he is now friendly and seems to have changed personality.
Scary.

Yep. It really proves how effective energy is in magic.

That's how I felt when I found out how successful my hex had been.
The guy in question lost his business, and has now pretty much disappeared from the field...
BM
xx

JO: I wasn't suggesting that you can only do Magic in certain circumstances (btw not feeling 'got' at here, just wanting a chance to explain myself a little clearer, as I do hear the point that you're making). The reason I said I'd question MY ability, is I know myself. I tend to internalise anger so rather than externalising it (my mental health would probably be a damn sight healthier if I could do that more easily). I have been angry, but usually thats at myself. I'd hate to think the damage I do to myself in a rage. So I've learnt to take time to reflect.

Xalle: Perhaps it is myth, but I think every myth contains a grain of truth. As both you and JO point out you can work in a rage, and channel that anger and agression. I'm just not sure it's always the right path. However, I think when it comes to protecting you and yours, you might not always have the luxury of reflective consideration. Sometimes we just react.

Q

I think if you can channel your rage into something constructive it would be a highly effective way of working. As they say, don't get mad, get even.
However, I'm no good at channelling rage so I'd be very careful of doing something that might comeback and bite me on the bum until I'd thought about it...
Another proverb: revenge is a dish best served cold!
BM
xx

Honey I completely agree and the "grain of truth" is what I was reaching for but falling badly short. Its about exercising caution. Absolutelly you need to know what you are capable of. I can work when Im angry. I know that of me. But I find it actually very hard to work when I'm sad, or fuelled by grief. I cant focus and things go a bit wonky. And yes you are right, sometimes we just react and I have been guilty of that. I'm not denying it.

My general feeling about this is that I wouldn't do anything by magic that I wouldn't do by non-magic methods. I wouldn't pre-meditiavely kill someone (unless in self/others defence and all that), so I'm not going to do it by magic either. In the same way, I wouldn't manipulate others for my own benifit and their detrimentation, so again I'm not going to do it by magic (manipulation for something else, for example to help me in a job interview, is a different matter ). The general rule I try to live by is "try not to f*** people over" (my own version of the wiccan rede I guess!), this applies to all aspects of what I do.

What you have said has got me thinking that this may be true for me as well.
I can't curse/hex, I've had the urge to do some damage in the past when seriously provoked but when it comes to do it things just crumble. Starting with my mindset, I struggle then just go empty and feel nothing but sorrow and things fade.

By struggle I mean that in the past its felt like I'm chained down and held back and although I struggle and snarl to get past it, to hold the intention, to seriously start thinking of what and how I'd do it, to start down the process of acting and building the energy, that emptyness just sets in.

I don't know why or who (guides) does it if anyone does but thats how it goes with me, I feel empty about that thought too.

If i'm in danger I can ask or one of my guides appears and says its best we do this and its worked. But unless its santioned... Nothing.

The taking of a life in any circumstance is murder. It matters not whether you stab someone to death or curse them to death, the RESPONSIBILITY for your actions remains with you whichever method is used. As to cursing someone to death, does anyone here really believe that they hold it within them to call forth that from themselves?? If you honestly think you could call that up please say now so that I can avoid you like the plague!