please bear with me im not very good at explaining myself ,here goes.....
following on from the basis of belief thread, i was wondering about how intellectual you have to be nowdays to follow a pagan path,as im rummaging around the forums i have come across lots of posts that are put forth by some quite intelligent people,they have obviously researched their chosen topic well and from what i can gather have a thorough understanding of whatever it is they are discussing,i can only guess sometimes because i dont always understand it myself

i am not the sharpest tool in the box ( im not thick just not intellectual) but i have a basis for my beliefs based on what i am capable of understanding,
so in days gone by you would have had the general joe public who would have followed a belief system because thats just what they did,they wouldnt have read it anywhere because most of them wouldnt have been able to read

my question is how much does intelligence matter when it comes to our beliefs today? i suppose i class myself as a peasant following my belief from a blind faith and the more intellectual among us as the elders that would have put about the ideas in the first place or am i looking at things in the wrong way

ps keep it fairly simple or my head will explode

I find that comparing yourself to others is rarely productive.

Are you happy in your path? Does it work for you? If so, brilliant! No need to worry about whether you can verbalise it sufficiently to enthrall others on a forum. If however you think you need to take it further, do so but in a way that you're comfortable with.

Don't judge a person's intelligence on how well they can discuss their path on a website, it's by no means a decent guide. Any old thickie can quote out of a book and sound impressive but in reality have little idea of the substance of what they're preaching.

You're questioning, which suggests you're smarter than you say.

It doesn't.

I also struggle with the breadth and depth of knowledge displayed by some members of the forum. I definitely respect it but sometimes I feel like a low-watt bulb.
I think it's great that people want to share their knowledge and I'm always happy to learn - where I get annoyed is those who don't know as much as they think they do and spend all their time just sniping and trying to knock others down.

Never be intimidated by knowledgeable people,really clever people will always share, only those tied up in their own insecurities will try to be superior - my old grandpa used to say "those that mind, don't matter. And those that matter, don't mind"
(Actually he was talking about the aristocracy, being an unrepentant old Tory)
BM
xx

i would say im happy with my path at the moment and the way i interpret it ,i just wonder if i would get more out of the info if i could get my head round it all,i understand most of the ideas i have looked into but when it comes to some of the things i read here i am lost, you are both right in waht you say and i really shouldnt keep comparing myself to others,i do enjoy reading everyones discussions i just wish i could join in sometimes with a contribution

I don't think that being an intellectual has anything to do with religion or beliefs. Your beliefs come from inside you, something that you feel.

There are many here who have beliefs, who just happen to be more knowledgeable (not all are wise), and they probably worked hard to gain that knowledge, or to get that clever, along with making many mistakes.

I admit that many topicS and posts on here are beyond me sometimes (you're not the only one ), but if that topic doesn't interest or appeal to me, I just don't bother! Tis fun though, to watch them bicker like kids in a playground

Why not just take in what you want to, and leave the rest alone? The subjects will always come round again, and the next time round we're all a bit different, and may want to say (or read) something different. Our opinions are affected by our experiences (I hope! )

Anyway, no one should get offended by a different opinion, or by a question. We all started somewhere! Gods, when I think about some of the things I used to believe, or the basic questions I've asked - if we can't ask them here, where can we ask them?

And no one's forcing you to post. Just do it when it feels comfortable to you. I'm willing to bet, by this time next year, you'll be amazed how much you've contributed. That way, we all benefit. The more ideas and opinions, the more we all get to stretch our minds a bit.

And and and when you get to 500 posts you can change the little bit under your avatar to say whetever you want it too!
BM
xx

Nah. It's 1000 IIRC.

that makes sense to me,i do enjoy reading it all

i can also see the sense in this too,i do take in what i want to ,im just wondering if im missing out because of my basic lack of understanding in some areas,im definitely not offended by anyones postings nor have i been made to feel stupid when i have asked a question,i will continue to mosy round then and listen in on everyones ramblings

hmm ,i have a way to go then

I don't think you ave to be an intellectual. I do think it takes a certain amount of imagination, creativity and aspiration as well as a good dollop of hope to develop spiritually. You must have that to be here in the first place, instead of plugged into the telly

In my opinion?

Apples and oranges.

If all 'beliefs' and religions were to examined with only empirical logic, then none would stand. I doubt if machines engage in producing much 'Art', either. The places in our mind where 'spiritual' beliefs may arise from are also the places that make us each individual, creative, emotional , in short: human.

I believe that all the good things that may arise from a religion or a spiritual belief arise from the same mixture of thought and emotion that also are at the bottom of all the bad things that get done in the name of beliefs and religion.

The exception to this would be if all one's experience, perceptions and intellect combine to convince one that they have just witnessed or felt some kind of event,( regardless of how others might interpret the same event) then it is real for that person. It need not be subjected to intellectual rigour in order for it to be 'real'. As one's life journey changes a person, one's interpretation of the same event might change. Or, it might not. The exception to this exception would be if what the person thought they had experienced proves harmful in some way . Then I think it should be examined a little more closely, or the person should be looked at. However, the kinds of illnesses which produce delusions always have other symptomology that will be seen with it, so in the absence of that, one should feel confident in believing in what their experience and mind tells them is true (if it results in no harm).

The only time that I think the 'intellect' needs to take the steering wheel is if a person holds a belief that produces actions that are detrimental to the person holding that believe or to others around them.


Do fairies exist? Maybe. However, if one leaves their children sleeping alone in the house so that the person who believes in fairies can go out and look for them or 'be' with them , then maybe someone should have a word with that person .

Places that hold to Sharia laws.

Cults ( whatever one's definition, if it hurts the people in it, then it should be looked at)

I'm sure you can think of others where 'belief' needs to be scrutinized by intellect. But that is equally true for other areas such as politics and cultural mores.

Apples - Oranges.

Marto

but dont forget, nowadays some of the low watt bulbs are far more efficient than the older high watt ones

When I was at Uni (boast, boast) a bloke there interrupted a couple of us as we were discussing comic books. He was taking issue with us discussing what he saw as a trivial topic (and that's something that I can and do respond to at length and with vehemence) in an intellectual fashion. We were comparing authors artists and recalling different views of the same story theme presented by different authors in different storylines, and so on.

We replied as gently as we could that we were using the same methodology that we used to approach our topics of study to approach our topics of casual interest. "Work hard - play hard" revised to "Work intellectually - play intellectually".

But it's easy to catch a glimpse of a long post and find it daunting, or a short post that is pithy with links, and wonder at the scholarship.

If you feel strongly about a topic, you tend to respond at length. And for links: Google is your friend. What YOU type into a search engine will be different from what the next person types. You might find the diamond in the mud!

But if you bookmark the sites you find interesting as you go along, there's more likelihood of being able to throw one into a discussion.

Your contribution is important to us. Intellectual or not. You may be more intellectual than you imagine.

And remember W.H.Auden's little verse:

To the man in the street, who, I'm sorry to say,
Is a shrewd observer of life,
The word "intellectual" suggests straight away
A man who's untrue to his wife.

i think im one of those special energy saving bulbs

thanks for your replies everyone ,they have been very helpful,i will continue to dip in as and when i feel able

I'm slowly losing my 'intellectual' faculties owing to illness but I find it has its positive aspect. I am allowed to exist in the moment, which funnily enough is exactly what I need. it is far easier, i have found, to connect with the livingness around me as a result and in its own way has given me healing.

fizz

It's weird how that works, isn't it? I've been very ill over the last few weeks and the only thing that really helped was just ...being. I would perambulate my sorry self to the park and ocean across the street and just let that strange 'fever dreams' thing take over. It's so hard ( for me) to stop 'thinking' and just 'feel and see' that I actually enjoyed it ( though others were freaking 'cause I was sitting under my oak tree outside in both sun and rain). But I found it healing and so, so ... 'real'?

Marto

me too,i mean ive never been at the top of the academic pile but i now have a condition that not only causes physical problems but also memory problems and a lack of concentration,so even when i do absorb any info it takes me twice as long to get the gist of it and then i forget all about it a few days later ,its so frustrating sometimes
i am a big fan of living in the moment,i have spent a lot of my life chewing over the past and worrying about the future ,but i now try to take it one day at a time,i find im spending more time appreciating the experiences i have now that im taking the time to notice them properly,im a lot more relaxed than i used to be and i find its the simple things that make me happy now like a beautiful sunset,or sitting out in my garden watching the squirrels trying to get into my Fort Knox of a bird feeder,there is a lot to be said about living in the moment

you don't have to be intellectual to hold beliefs -
what happens though is that few people just say they have some beliefs. They usually think those beliefs are related to some culture or era
if you claim those beliefs are the same as, or largely the same as, those of an ancient culture then it's that claim that should be subjected to intellectual rigour.