Long post commencing.

Since reading some of the comments on one of the threads in the Alternative Therapies area about peoples opinions on charging people either money or something exchanged for doing energy work in all its different forms.

By that I mean Magic, Bind Rune/Talisman making, Tarot/Rune readings, Reiki/Reiki type energy healing and Channeling, Journey work, Shamanic type stuff.
Anything that involves us making up or doing something involving Pagan/psychic or Magic for money. Be it a one off or a frequent thing.

Many people think that it is wrong, espicially in the healing side of things to ask to be paid somehow for doing something. Something I disagree with some of the time. I'm not speaking about the one off's for a friend who is under the weather or a treatment because someone made you a meal.

When I did healing work, I put EVERYTHING I had into it, I did all I could to help them. They got the full works, a full energy treatment, a reading of their energies, if I found blockages I did my best to help release them, cut cords I relayed messages from their guides (or mine) to being just short of it heing a full blown reading.
When I did readings I read til I'd got all I could then if necessary did a further mini reading to elaborate on any questions/options they had. Sometimes I even did a mini BindRune to help them out. The same effort was put into whatever magic I did for people.

I would like to think that my time and effort was worth the money.
I'd bought the tools, paid for the attunements, practiced at the reading/healings, travelled to speak or train with people, bought books, read up and generally worked increadabally hard to get to the level I was at. I put as much physical and mental energy into what I was doing as I could.

Originally I did not charge for anything. I considered it to be a learning experience until an experience with my Guides led me to change my mind. I'd done about 5 in depth readings for the society I was in at Uni. After the last one I was fine for a few minutes then the cramps in my Solar Plexus started. I felt like I was being cored, I could barely stand straight, I wasn't sure that I could even make it home they were that severe. Lucky one of the girls still left could do Reiki and gave me enough to take the edge off so I was able to get home.

My Guides told me that I gave everything and it needed to stop or what I was feeling would continue to happen because I wasn't appreciating myself, my abilities or them who helped me.

They taught me that when you help someone or many someones in such a manner you shed energy. Energy flow out and isn't returned to the same value as what you gave. Energy will come to you from wherever the energy came from
If you work with people over a long period of time I was told a psychic debt forms.

The story they told me to help explain it was that when your working energy flows from you out into this plane to whoever it is like an energy river, that river has to maintained by a river returning. Although not necessarily in the same manner as it left. There is only so long that you can learn before you have to realise your value

That time, effort and resources could have been assigned elsewhere, further studies, my own projects or hobbies amongst other things and a resentment (or in my case a good dose if irritation) can build up.

I can give a good example of this. I did several months worth of work for someone who was in a lot of difficulties, mental and physical. I was called in to do readings, send energy, healing and magic to both support them and help release blockages/hinderances. I worked with them for two and a half months. The first month I did at least an hour of energy work which varied in its composition but sooner or later included readings to tell how to help-sending energy to do the help (the most frequent) , prayer, visulisations, spells, agony aunt listening kinds of thing, the second month I reduced the frequency but still prayed and sent energy a lot. At this stage I was getting wise, after hearing the same oh thank you, thank you, pls keep helping I feel better, things will responces again and again. I did a reading to find out what the hell was going on. Then I put a call into the person who called me in.

She wasn't willing/'couldn't afford' to pay me, yet was getting therapies/readings done. The person who called me in thought I'd help anyone so it was ok to waste my time with someone who was enamoured with the thought of being healed, but was never ever going to bother making the effort to change.

What they said after this (which was a lesson they'd set up for me)was , who are they going to value more, the person who is giving it away, or the person who knows their worth and charges for it. After all, no matter how good you are, your only free.

Yup, I'd support that. From my point of view it's similar to things I make - say I was commissioned to make a devotional item, as I am at times. As that item is created for a magical purpose, it's a magical item. Those types of things take more from me to make them than other things (weirdo moment - it's not unknown for the god of the person commissioning it to get involved, which is demanding) Does that mean I shouldn't charge for them? Or should only charge for the matierials I used? Bog off! And if I am allowed to charge for the intangible aspects of my work, why shouldn't someone else be allowed to charge for a service which is wholly untangible?

Of course, the difference with what I do and what you do is that I can provide evidence of what I've done before and each person who engages me for this has as good an idea of what they're going to get before they part with any cash and can see physical evidence of my past work. With something like healing or readings customers are going in mostly on faith that vendor is capable of what they claim and will achieve the results promised. It's a very difficult thing to prove and gives rise to plenty of people without conscience or morals who expolit this fact and sell as JO would no doubt put it 'snake oil'. The more charlatans who move into the market, the more the public opinion becomes skewed from your defined principles and the situation changes so that the people charging are viewed as the one's with no worth.

It's a very difficult area, so I think it's fair to say that no one who has just bought their first pack of Tarot cards and interprets them from a book should be charging. Those who do charge should do so on a sliding scale of their own competency, experience and results. If you're going to charge a lot, you should be able to provide evidence of your value upon request.

Spot on Esk.

Thing is theres a weird quirk of human Psycholigy where if you do someone a favor, or charge Nowt then they tend to assume that what you gave them was worthless

Yeah I charge for Tarot readings, I don't charge freinds (On the other hand I refuse to read for close freinds and family. I don't think I can give a truly objective reading) I charege what I consider a reasonabe charge for my time and transport expenses, I certanly don't make megabucks at it. If I made something for somone a talisman or Amulete then I would probaly say "Pay me what you think its worth" (A double edged statment in itself)

There is a craft fair on locally, and I have been considering setting up a stall, i'm still currently undecided as with me and my readngs there is a side effect-Not unpleasnt but OM has to deal with with me on one of my upswing moods. (Thats probably a chargable expense in itself )

This having qualms about charging for 'magical' services is a relatively modern thing.

I really don't understand it either. You have a skill that people don't and can benefit from, you charge for it. Be it in money or barter. Charity is all well and good but at the end of the day it begins at home.

IMO the only thing that is unethical is taking the piss with how much you charge.

I don't have any trouble with the idea charging for things like this, but I don't want to rip people off either so I only charge what I think is fair... or to be honest, more often I end up not charging anything, which is silly really.

I've had different experiences charging for things, about 6 or 7 years ago I had a friend who wanted weekly tarot readings, healing work, and all sorts of magical work doing on her behalf and I never charged her because she was a mate. I got a bit fed up after a while, so when she asked me to do some work for her to help her find a new job, I told her I would do it if she went out and bought the materials for the ritual herself - a few candles, some incense, some coloured card to make a talisman, nothing expensive or hard to find. She flipped out and told me I was being unfair, as I had always used my own stuff before so why should she start paying for it now? But on the upside, she stopped pestering me to do things for her.

On the other hand, a few years back I was asked by someone at work if I knew anyone who could do her a tarot reading. I said I would do one for her for free, and she refused saying she would rather pay someone as they would know what they were doing. About a year later she asked me again, and I said I would do a reading for her for £25 - she was more than happy with that. My skills as a reader hadn't vastly improved, but her perception of them had because I was now charging money for readings.

I don't get asked to do a lot of magical work these days, probably because most of the people I know are pagans anyway and can do it for themselves without any help from me. But I do find myself giving a lot of stuff away - at a lot of the open rituals and workshops we run it will be either me or my HPS who provides most of the materials out of our own supplies, so I frequently find myself running out of candles, stones, incenses, and various other bits n bobs. So perhaps if I started charging for readings and healing work instead of just giving it away, I could afford to replace them, lol

I completely agree. I'm not a healer so can't comment on that side of things, but as a handfasting celebrant, I've heard of people charging 400 quid just to turn up for half an hour, go through a pre-written/non bespoke ceremony, and disappear again over the horizon. The excuse for the extortionate price is usually something like 'we provide the altar decorations'.

The same with funerals, the celebrants charge more than vicars!

When money starts coming into things, then spirituality can very easily get left behind. Although Martin and I are probably two of the best handfasting celebrants in the country (and I say that having seen some of the others in action!) and could charge a few hundred, we choose not to, because young couples starting out have enough money worries without us adding to them, and because we absolutely love being celebrants. We come away with enough to cover our costs and buy us a decent bottle of wine, and we're happy with that.

Rhiannon

I once read Tarot alot and had never charged a penny. But when a news event grabbed my attention one Friday evening back in 2004, I changed my mind.

The news report focused on severly tourtured and violated women living in various villages in Africa. The report went on to tell their story, what had happend to them at the hands of militants made me burst into tears and then become incredibly enraged. I saw in the background that there was a Unicef tent, so I contacted them and they pointed me in the direction of DOCS, a Christian non-profit organisation that was working to give these women operations, food, counselling.. I knew i had to help.

So i set about making some (pretty poor) fliers and putting them up at work and the local shops. Influx ensued and I was swamped. I asked for donations only (the smallest I received being £5 and the biggest being £50) and managed to raise about £200. I donated it and moved on.

But people who had had readings and people they had told continued to call me. They were willing to pay, even though I had stopped that particular campain. I used to war with myself - to charge or not to charge. In the end I meditated on it and was given the simple word "halve". And that is what I did. I ask people (when i do it - which is not all that regular now - spiritual drought ) to pay a minimum of £5, so still leaving it up to them as to how much they pay, and i give 1/2 to myself and 1/2 to the charity jar. Once I have, say £50, I donate it.

But thats just me. If you are using any of your "gifts" for financial support, then I feel it up to the individual.

There has been a huge surgence in interest at "alternative" therepies of late and I feel that there may be some practicioners who are raking it in - as some of us have commented, the ethos seems to be "you get what you pay for" - indicating, if you pay more, you receive better. And as we all know - that is not nessasarily the truth. Just as it is up to the individual to decide how much they charge, I think people using services like Reiki (for example) have to conclude how much they are willing to pay?

I've never charged for readings and such, and probably never would, but that is because money never seems to raise itself as an issue. Its not that I don't need the money either, its just it does not seem to be relevant for my path.

um, I think what I am trying to say here is that a person should listen to their own intuition about a decision to charge/not to charge. afterall, it is 'their' path, their learning and so on. in the end it is your decision, and you know what is best for you.

fizz

I think there is a difference between charging for the tangible ( ie jewellry, crafted items ) and intangible, even if the solid items do have something else worked into them in the way of magic, healing, spiritual energy etc. The tangible items have some kind of stand alone value as well, for aesthetic or other functional purposes.

I know people do put a lot of themselves into healing, various therapies, readings of different sorts etc. I rarely do any myself these days but when I did I gave it my all. But to me it just feels wrong to charge for doing those things. I cannot countenance drawing up a sliding scale of charges for these things, I really can't. I also am very anti the kind of people who do take the piss with the amount of money they charge for similar things, and sometimes the frequency. I have seen a lot of trading on people's vulnerabilities in that area and it makes me very angry.

I guess for me generally the happy medium is the donation route. Giving a gift voluntarily in return for a service ( or in some cases perceived service ) I feel is acceptable, whether its money, in kind, items etc. Crossing the palm with silver ? For me on a personal level, I prefer the pay it forward principle. If I have helped you, go and help someone else in some way, that's honestly the best way of repaying me.

Of course, you've got to be careful now that we're all covered by the consumer protection thing that did away with the fraudulent mediums act. If you're challenged, you have to be able to prove that you do what you say you do.

I charge to cover my own costs i.e. if i have to drive from wales to the midlands to help someone with a house blessing or a specific problem I would ask them to cover my deisel plus any special supplies purchased, a specific incense or ingredient candles etc. I dont charge for my time or ability however I have accepted thank you gifts or donations occasionally once £20, a box of chocolates or a pretty stone or crystal or a swap for something else often in exchange for readings, healing or massage.

I consider that whatever gifts were given to me are gifts to be passed on and given to others who need them and because i don't charge i can turn down anyone i think may be asking for the wrong reasons without anything else coming into the equation even as an afterthought. I will help anyone who genuinely needs it provided they will help themselves too and i have the ability, time, energy to do so but I too have learnt the hard way how many people there are just looking to take advantage because its free and i'm afraid i haven't got any time for them and can now usually tell the difference. Especially as you said these things can take their toll on the practitioner over a long period of time or in specific cases and although i'll do so willingly for the genuine ones and accept the consequences it is a valuable gift and not something i want to just give to anyone that asks.

I think its one of those ethical questions we all have to look at and find what is right and comfortable for us. This is just what works for me.

BBs Lantern_Light