Isn't it about anticipating the return of spring and sunlight? December 21 is the date the days get longer by one minute instead of shorter, correct? How could the ancient people have known that?
The God dies on Samhain and is born again on December 21, so Yule is almost like Christmas because it celebrates the birth of the Lord, except it's the Green Man instead of Jesus. Is that right?
By the way, you know how people say "MERRY Christmas" and not "Happy Christmas"? Is that another Pagan-related thing? (Merry Meet, Merry Part)

I guess you are going to get different answers depending on what path people follow.

The 'sun god' means nothing to me. But Yule does.

For me, Yule, or the Winter Solstice to be more precise is a natural pivot point of the year. From Midsummer onwards the days get shorter, and as the light leaves the earth, everything, including the earths energies, retreats with the sun to bring us to the darkest day of the year - the winter solstice.
The ancient people werent stupid - look at stone henge and the various other henges, and monuments that are aligned to the heavens. They lived much more in tune with the natural passing of the seasons than we could ever hope to.
So - for them the shortest day would probably have been a very bleak time indeed - the coldest days of winter are still ahead - do they have enough food set by to last them, time spent outside, or even the ability to be active would be at its most restricted (no electricity remember) due to the lack of day light. So this would be the most appropriate time for them to do ritual - to entice the sun/light back to the earth again. Bringing greenery inside is symbolic of this - and evergreens would have been seen as something magical and special when all other green things have long since died and gone brown.
Anything that resembles the sun would have strong 'magical' symbolism. For me - the gold of xmas fits Yule perfectly, the red is the berries (seeds of the tree/plant) that are left hanging on the trees and bushes - a splash of colour in a bleak landscape, food for the birds - a sign of the potential of life continuing when most other life is delicately balanced in the cold and dark and damp with little fresh food.
it would also have been a damn good time to have a celebration feast = to cheer everyone up - a reason to celebrate as from previous years experience the light does start to return, life does flow back into the earth and brings food, and materials needed to survive.

xmas means nothing to me - i am pagan, but the imagery of many of the typical xmas things is so blatently pagan, i find it amusing that it is associated with the birth of christ - because apart from the church services and the nativity scenes - the birth of jesus isnt really up front is it ? But the trees, the gold, red, the mistletoe, the holly, the Yule log, the 'abundance' and innate need to celebrate and be with 'the clan' are all so deeply pagan.

The other thing I love about the winter solstice is its natural - theres no man imposed date to it - it just happens as it should - and the 'wheel of the year' rotates round again - as i said its a pivot point.

So - that to me, is what Yule means. On a personal level - we are usually at work and so do the pressies and food on 25th, but we put the tree and decorations up on the winter solstice - we light a candle at sundown ( or as close to as possible) that burns through til morning, and its also our 'new year' - because of its pivotal nature. So we talk about things that went well in the year gone by, we talk about things that didnt go well, and how we can stop that from happening again, and we write a list of wishes for the coming year, which get burned in the candle flame. its a time to remember those we wont see again, and a time to look ahead.
the kids love it, its our spiritual day - and 25th is our day of indulgence.

I've found some sites that might give some more insights into different ways the solstice was celebrated.
The Christmas we know is an amalgamation of different customs and beliefs.
Yule has Norse origins if i remember rightly.
The winter solstice and this time of year does always seem to have been a special time .
Numerous prehistric monuments are aligned to the rising or setting sun at the winter solstice,Newgrange the most well know but there loads of others.
For who knows how long our ancestors looked at the sky and noted what was there.
They would have noticed that the Sun and Moon rose at different places on the horizen at different times of year,that the different patterns of stars were visible at different times and that certain stars moved (the planets) and of then there would be unusual events such a shooting stars,comets,eclipses and auroras.
They marked out the rising and setting points of the sun and moon,they probably had ceremonies at these times of year as well,and just because there are no written records they no doubt had mathmatical knowledge.
They certainly knew how to build with earth, stone and wood.They knew the world around them.
Sorry.Rambling.
Francis Pryor has written a book called Britain BC,which goes into the archaeology of prehistoric people a lot more.Its a good book.

All the best

Morrigan

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mjpowell/Cric...ow/MW_Sites.htm
http://www.anima.demon.co.uk/alternative/astronomy.html
http://www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/rug/rug.html
http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/books/default.aspx?id=22658


http://www.orkneyjar.com/tradition/yule/index2.html
http://www.cvc.org/christmas/
http://www.christmasarchives.com/index.html
http://www.netdeva.com/lisalindberg/season...er-solstice.htm
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/saturnalia/
http://www.roman365.com/religion_and_mytho...s/sol_invictus/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/pa..._solstice.shtml
http://www.earth-dancing.com/yule.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm
http://www.beliefnet.com/index/index_31998.html

I came to think about the name Yule, Because christmas is in Denmark called Jul ( the J is spoked almost like Y in english) And A wheel is called hjul, where the H isn't spoken. Just a funny thought
(I am not sure but I mean it is the same in Sweden and Norway)

Maes Howe at Stenness on Mainland Orkney is aligned with the midwinter sunset and every year about this time they have a webcam so that (weather permitting) you can see the sunset light flood down the passage and across the back wall.

If you want to catch it live you need to watch most days for about 10 days before and after midwinter as clear skies are not common on Orkney !

There are also animated views of this event from previous years.

http://www.maeshowe.co.uk/main.html

Yes, it´s the same in swedish. Jul is the old language, we havn´t let chistianity change it. Hjul means wheel and is pronounced the same way.

The story in short:
In the old calender the wintersolstice was the 25th of december. Here in scandinavia we celebrated the vinterblot then. To "blota" is to sacrifice to the gods and to celebrate in their honour. When sweden was "chistened" in the 1000 century the church realized it was difficult to change the time of celebrating and that the best thing was to keep the dates, but they made it into a celebration of the birth of jesus instead.
They took over the term "Jul" from the old heathen traditions, unlike the brits who changed it to christmas.


Blessed be

Deerheart

The solstice isn't always on the 21st December, sometimes it can be either side. The date is not set in stone, it is the date of the physical day with the shortest hours of sunlight that defines the date of the solstice that year.

As has been said by many already, our ancient people were more in tune with sun and moon cycles then most of us are. For more on that ignore the pagan books and read the proper archaeological ones instead

For me it is not the Green Man who is reborn, the Green Man is not a God, in fact I have never heard reference to the Green Man being born at this time, he is for me,an extremely different being altogether For me it is the God of the sun and of the land, the God who is all male, all fertile who is reborn at this time

Obviously Yule predates xmas, and also xmas did not used to be celebrated at this time of year either, Jesus was not born in December, there has been much evidence to show this.

And again I'm afraid, that saying Merry Christmas rather than Happy Christmas has no Pagan conotactions, "Merry Meet and Merry Part" is only a few decades old. Merry means, merry, having a good time, a cheerful time and is for me, nicer than a happy time

Just thought I should say Thanks for a subject that I hope to get my teeth in to and look at all the links that people have found.
Jax

for me yule is the turning point where the spring is on its way, its that time of year when new beginnings are upon us and we start to look to the future - or at least i do

Interesting topic!!

I found out yesterday that it was actually the coca cola company that "pushed" Father Christmas into our homes.

They picked up on an old fable and made him fashonable. He was tradinally fressed in Green and white but the cola co changed it to red and white to match their company colours

TD.x.

Moongazer, youve summed up most of my feelings about Yule. I have resolutely not celebrated Christmas for many years for many reasons. Its sometimes difficult to explain why I celebrate Yule or the winter solstice to non pagans, as they tend to think, Oh its the same thing. No ... it really really isnt. I have a lot of respect for people of all religions who are sustained by their beliefs and have interest and also respect for others of differing spiritual viewpoints, but one thing that really gets my goat is the Christian hijacking of Yule and all the sanctimonious hypocritical claptrap that goes with it :/ that and the blatant commercialism !

T.D., I'm afraid that's another urban legend It sounds rather cool, though, and I must admit I was sorry to hear it wasn't true... Here's the relevant Snopes page .

For me the Winter Solstice is the end and begining of the year. The point where the wheel turns.

I don't see the God and the Goddess as actual beings (though I do have a god (who is sometimes a green man and other times antlered) and a goddess who are) but rather a way to interpret the cycles of the year itself.


Kev

Faith

Thanks for this!!! Interesting stuff, Urban Legends that is

I was under the impression that the Church tried to convert Pagans by holding festivals at the same time as earth celebrations... eg Halloween and all saints day -Winter Solstice and The birth of Jesus.

Just to clear something up - my RE teacher (many many moons ago) informed us that there was someone called Jesus, but he was actually born in July!! Anyone else have any info on this? or is this another urban legend??

Love and light,
TD.x.

There was someone called Jesus, but some reports have him born in January and some March., July is a new one for me. The celebration date of christmas has changed from I think, January 6th to as it is now. There is huge amount of Pagan urban myth about christain festivals being used to convert us by changing the date.

It would seem to make sense though wouldn't it? The church saw Pagans at a threat to their newly established power, and so tried to convert (and in the end convict ) as many of the population as possible.

It would make sense to have celebrations at the same times of year to ease the transition between Pagan paths and the church.... I'm sure Akenaten and Nefertiti did this thousands of years before in Egypt, when they changed their country's religion from polytheasum (please excuse my horrible spelling) worshipping only the Sun Disc.

TD.x.

It was basically thought that since folk were having fun that if the church combined it's own celebrations with Pagan style ones (remember that the people doing the Pagan style celebrations were not Pagans as we know them) then they could claim a higher turn out etc.

They didn't convict pagans either. It was practising christains who were mainly convicted for being the wrong christain faith and the village wise woman wasn't always a witch just a herbalist


oh blimey, I sound like I'm nitpicking