The above quote by SMD in the Ouija thread made me think, Is it indeed our minds which are the doorway to the spiritual world ? or is it the actual key to the door?

There are lots of "tools" to give us insights into the future, contact spirits or divine information on any subject we can imagine, throught such devices as the Ouija, Tarot, Runes, Crystal Balls, pendulums etc. but are these "tools" the key? is it them which hold to power to unlock the secrets? My opinion is that the mind is the true key and doorway, the tools we use are just a way to focus on the questions at hand.

If they have their own power and it is them which are the key then why do some people have no success with a particular tool? I do not get accurate results with a pendulum, however I have been told that I have been very accurate with the tarot, where as for otheres it is the reverse. Sugesting as I say the mind is the real "Power" if you like.

I would be interested in others opinions on this. I know its a similar thread to the Ouija one but I am speaking in more general terms accross the whole spectrum of "tools".

Great question Herne!

I agree completely that the real power is in the mind. I believe that all the items we use are indeed, just keys.

To a certain extent, not wishing to offend anyone here, I beleive that "gods" are the same, a way for people to link into or access what already lies within them.

I think the different tools people use, give them access to the power to do differnt things, you connect to differnt aspects of your power depending on the tools you use.. or channel it in a differnt way. Thats not to say that I do not think there are outside forces, elemental.. but I dont beleive that the power lies in the tools we use to access.

With regards to the Ouija, yes its a tool, and a way of you channelling your powers to access spirits. The problems come from the lack of control and a lack of understanding as to what you are tapping into. Despite the fact that a shot gun can kill a bear, you would never send a rookie off into the cave to see what happens. He may have the tool to deal with it.. that doesnt make him safe or.. capable of using it with effect.

I agree with what you are saying.

I think it is our minds that have the power and not the tools we use.

The tools are a way of focusing your energy and some you will be attracted to and work better with and some you will not.

For instance tarot decks; some people work well with set X than they would with set Y and the same when some can do runes and some do tarot.

I also believe that if you become accomplished enough you shouldn't need tools anymore (though they are what people expect to see).

You have hit the nail on the head...I agree.Without our energy the tool,no matter what it is would be useless.I also agree with xalle:

To a certain extent, not wishing to offend anyone here, I beleive that "gods" are the same, a way for people to link into or access what apready lies within them.

Perhaps then my failure with the Ouija board could mean it simply isnt the "key" to my door? I'm thinking I should try other methods, see if I get any results. I agree that we have the power within us, the tools we use simply channel what is there (or isnt in my case!) Interesting topic Hern!

SMD I think it's only to be expected that some things just won't work for you and I wouldn't refer to it as a 'failure' you're just not compatible is all!

Who knows, through time and learning you might go back to the oujia board and it will work for you - in the meantime tho - great idea to try something else!

Hmm. Although we do have our own internal energies and power source, I still feel/believe that this in itself still a tool to tap into, channel, give and receive from external sources. So yes, I think the mind is a power in its own right but it is in turn there to act as a doorway or conduit to greater powers.

Willow said

That is a fabulous way of putting it Willow Not everything works for everyone.

I think you've definatly got to the point. I'm new to using Tarot cards and only really started using them after a pack of Tarot cards "called" to me. Anyway getting back on topic (sorry)

I do believe we hold the power but need tools to use it properly when we start off. Is it easier to use a tool that use the doorway straight off? I think it is as your training your mind to be able to use that power and learn to control it. Sorry if that isin't making sense...

I'm absolutely certain that the mind is the key to a massive extent.
In the case of scrying this is very easy to accept, less clear cut in cases of possession as discussed in a previous thread, but what about manifestations?

Manifestations to a single individual can very easily be attributed to "attunement", susceptability, state of mind or indeed a reality.

How can such explanations hold though in the case of a manifestation by an entity to more than one individual, in the same place at the same time?
Are all of the individuals minds so attuned that they all see the same or is the manifestation an actual, real, none mind induced or assisted event. I think that it must be.
I know of such a case, an identical manifestation being descibed by three sources that I consider to be as reliable as any with "controls" in place as far as possible. The event having been seen apparently by 20 plus people at the same time.

Some individuals are far better attuned to certain non-physical forces than others, I'm sure of that also.

So I think that; yes, the mind is a key, a major key, but not the only key.
I believe that there is a reality behind some "paranormal" events that is not as easily explained as to say simply "the mind is the key", I think that although that statement is perfectly true, it is not the only factor by a long shot.

In the case of scrying for example using a variety of objects to achieve that end then yes. I believe that the focus and attunement of the individual is a major key, but even here, not neccessarily the only one.


I believe to a very large extent yes but there is also a genuine actuality too.

When we intentionally approach the deities that we recognise then of course the mind acts to a large extent as a doorway, but the resultant meeting is certainly not "only in the mind".

On the rare occasions that we are "approached" without conscious intent, then if we actually physically see before we percieve with out minds, as can happen, exemplified by the startled response; "what the hell's that" then maybe an actual paranormal event, outside the channelling or control of our own minds has taken place.

So how to apply these principles to the Quija Board?
Yes a response can be faked.
Yes a resonse may be provoked through "mind channeling".
But also; yes I believe that an actual and genuine discourse can sometimes take place. As to who we might be speaking to; I really have no idea.

Maybe in these cases it is not so much the people who view the manifestation who hold the key but the Manifestation atuneing itself to the people there at the time ...... I suppose that adds the question do Manifestations have a mind? there must be some form of intelegence there for them to appear...

(goes off to try to think on how to explain better what I'm thinking)

Maybe it still has more to do with the mind, even with manifistations. Perhaps there is a different reality that only those who are open minded and whose minds are attuned enough are able to catch a glimpse of an entity. Or it could be that our minds eye 'sees' that which can be readily understood by us.

Take for example psychics. They 'see' an event, either past or future. Often people who never were psychic before become so after a bad head injury. Others just come naturally due to some natural quirk in their mind. I think it is very possible to train your mind through meditation and visualization and trying to see things, like everyday things in a different way to become more aware of things that most people aren't. It exercise for the mind kind of thing.

O.K. I'll go home now

I'm a bit dopey today and there's just too many good questions here to try and answer, but great thread herneoakshield

I believe it is the mind that is key, the tools are merely a way of opening it. Therefore like a key to locked door you need the right key to open it. Each lock needs a different key, therefore each mind requires a different key to open it. For me the right key, (ie the best divinatory tool) is my pendulum. I can use the tarot but am slow, same with the runes. The pendulum gives me answers to things that have not yet happened. My best ever prediction was one that covered two years in advance and made no sense at the time. I had a house for life, I had no reason to lose that security, or so I thought. There were other things predicted that came true, so whilst for me my key is my pendulum, the door it unlocks is my mind and my mind recieves answers from a source unknown for no brain induced twitch could possibly tell me so accurately as to the names and locations of people as then unknown to me.

gypsimoon

I believe that too. A trained mind sees things another one would not. A relaxed mind will too. A stressed out woman walking down the street is unlikely to see or hear the birds, a relaxed one will both see and hear them. The mind tunes out things we deem unneccesary, therefore to me, the mind can tune into things that we wouldn't normally see or take note of

The "doorway"obviously works from both sides then doesn't it, for both the individual and in this instance the "entity". Does an entity have a mind? I would have thought that this varies, I can't possibly believe that entities don't have what we would desribe as "a mind" giving them the ability to make conscious, informed and intelligent decisions, as the inability on their part to do this would make our greatest deities "mindless" which they are obviously from my perspective not. I'm fairly comfortable to assume that there are different types of entity from Deities through to what people simply call "ghosts" (however we might choose to explain "ghosts") I'm also happy to assume then that they have different characteristics; one form from another as far as to say that they must have different levels of self awareness and even intellect.

In the example I described above (the group sighting) the entity was described by all as "a ghost", there was absolutely no interaction between the manifestation and the people that saw it, it was as though the manifestation did not even know that it was in company. Without any cynicsm or sarcasm whatsoever, really, I would certainly be curious to know why an entity might choose to do this if choice was involved, which in the case of that example I doubt and whether or not there was, as suggested a conscious or even subconscious intent on the part of the "ghost", unfortunately I've not yet had and opportunity to ask such a question directly to a spirit in person but will certainly try to remember to do so should the occasion occurr. Seriously....why not?

If that doorway in the mind is a two way channel as we presume that it is, I would also presume that the balance of control regarding the actual flow and level of mind channelling, connectivityor attunement between entity and individual can also vary to a great extent, possibly resulting in more or less vivid and poigniant flows of images and discourse between individual and manifestation.

I've never much doubted that not all manifestations are of a kind. To me this is obvious, some seem to be no more than reflections of past events whilst others appear to involve direct discourse between the manifestation and the viewer, unless of course some great spirit out there is controlling it all and has a huge sense of humour; not a proposal that I'm comfortable with for many reasons.

Also; who initiates the connection? the individual, the manifestation or an unlimited variety of combinations of the two? I suspect the combinations to be the case myself.

As to why? ...scrying and divining I see as very different from unsought "manfestations" as a specific intent is usually present in scrying that is lacking in the latter, what about the apparently pointless manifestations that do occurr and in hindsight appear to have had no resultant effect upon the viewer other than the need for a change of underwear.

What if any might the purpose be either on the part of the manifestation or the individual?



Trained minds; I absolutely agree but a person with a natural innate attunement has a greater capacity to become adept than an individual with little or no such innate ability. No doubt a person without natural ability might be able to surpass a person with such ability with the aid of suitable training of the mind if the person of natural ability does not perform such training.

How many people must there be out there that have such an ability but that choose to subdue or even ignore or deny it?

The human mind is, quite literally, the "undiscovered country" - there's so much we don't know about it, how it works, why it works etc. I firmly believe the mind is a major key to opening the door to other planes of existence - we only use a third of our brains consciously, so the other two thirds must be there for some purpose.......why should one of those purposes not be contact with the divine? As Dave has said, unlooked-for contact with deity, not initiated by us, is a clear indication that deities have their own intelligence and will contact us should they wish - it's just a case of being open to this type of contact, and if the mind's not trained to do so, it won't be. I'm rambling a bit here, I know - what I'm trying to say is that being open to spiritual experience, training the mind via meditation, and learning all you can in order to expand your awareness is obviously a major factor in contacting or being contacted by deities, or indeed by spirits. There are many of us here who have been contacted by one or both of the above - so many instances with so many people, over such a large geographical area can't be said to be mass hysteria, it IS just what it is - contact with or by entities from another plane of existence, via our minds.