A mix of a new post and an old one - LONG one thought so bear with me erk!
2004
So lifestyles, paganism and sex?
Ah THAT made you look didn’t it!!!
Do you find that as a pagan people assume that you cavort round a lit bonfire at full moon in the nude and then engage in lustful acts in worship of some obscure fertility god or goddess?
It happens you know and jeez people sure do harbour some misconceptions about us nature loving doods!
See why they can’t understand that as pagans we are first and foremost human. Can they not see that as a set of people we are diverse as the next and our chosen lifestyles/ sexual orientation or leisure pursuits are as varied as any other section of the population!
Perhaps the fixation with folklore, fertility, May poles and Beltane fires has fuelled the inferno (erk excuse the pun ) that surrounds a perceived sexual irresponsibility within pagan communities?
You see we have had this debate before-
Are pagans more likely to be open and free in talking about relationships, intimacies and well you now stuff that goes on behind closed doors ? Or are we as likely to be private in these matters as anyone? I don’t know . I have found a refreshing open mindedness within pagan communities when it comes to broaching “ sticky topics” that relate to alternative lifestyles – NOT in all cases, but mostly people adopt a live and let live mentality bar anyone inflicting harm deliberately or abusing another!
For me this spills over into debate on lifestyles such as Polyamory. Try being a polyamorist AND a pagan and see what crap you get levelled at you then!!
Erm what’s Polyamory?
Polyamory is a relationship style that involves an openness to be being involved with more than one person at the same time. Polyamory is about responsible non-monogamy. Polyamory is not about cheating, or dishonesty. Polyamory pre-supposes that all people involved consent to this arrangement, and are honest about what is going on.
Polyamory is NOT swinging
There is a major distinction to be made between what is called "Swinging" and Polyamory. In swinging, the intent is to engage in non-monogamous sexual behaviour without the development of love, affection or personal intimacy between oneself and the secondary partners. Swingers generally seek to engage in recreational sex without emotional intimacy. With polyamory, there is no such restriction, and the intent IS to allow such emotional intimacy to exist, develop, and grow between the people involved.
www.polyamory.com
The assumption that anyone who is engaged within Polyamory is after an uncomplicated and physical diversion is way off the mark. We all seek that one true love in life and some of us find them, but to then decide that we have NO feelings for others is not always realistic. How many of us have close friends that we love deeply, want to cuddle, hold and be with intimately ( and no I don’t mean sex)? How many relationships can weather that kind of sharing and survive or would want to take that step? Each of us has our own codes that we live by and that’s how it should be!
Each to their own I say and certainly I have had good and bad experiences in the past, but I count myself fortunate that I have gained more than I have lost by being open emotionally to others!
2003
Is it wrong to love, to care in life and can this take many forms?
Can we embrace others with love and intimacy?
Is our make up so limited that physical and emotional attraction is cauterised once we are in a couple? Or can we as humans admit our wish to be close and to share with others on a deep level?
Monogamy in its purest form dictates loyalty and fidelity to our partners and for some that is a lifelong and nurturing commitment BUT do those feelings (above) really go away, or have we repressed them for the others sake or for societal norms?
NB: Am NOT slating monogamy here by the way – fabulous state to have and live within and chiefly I am monogamous myself and nothing is going to take that away within my life.
Can we be in a relationship yet still love people deeply as friends and perhaps as lovers with our partners consent and indeed involvement?
It could be said that communal living breeds deep connections as people strive to a common goal and purpose – deep friendships ensue and bonds are made that over ride what is seen as the norm within society. Take away the communal living and substitute communal thought and lifestyle – as an individual would you feel it immoral to admit loving another and indeed sharing an intimate relationship which has grown from mutual discovery?
If both people in a relationship are comfortable and secure in their own relationship can they be strong enough too weather the inclusion of other people?
Am I talking about “swinging” here? NO I am talking about sharing on a deep level with people whom are important to us – it does NOT have to be about sex!
Introduce sex however within a debate and we enter into the realms of swinging and bed hopping, the pursuit of recreational sex so often CONFUSED with Polyamory (the involvement of more than 2 people in an intimate relationship). Add sex for sex sake and problems begin – jealousies arise and emotional baggage rears its head.
As a polyamorist I can speak with some authority about the subject and though initially reticent and loathe to share on that level due to predictable judgemental attitudes I thought I would risk it.
One of the myths associated with Polyamory is that it is shallow and less than the perceived strength and commitment of monogamy – SO so wrong! Within a polyamorist relationship the people involved have to be MORE honest, MORE able to communicate than within a monogamous one in many cases. I mean as a couple can you share your deep feelings for a close friend with your partner or admit openly that you are attracted to another? BUT all have to be happy, secure and able to give on that level and it isn’t for everyone admittedly.
If and only if people are secure and confident within themselves and their relationship and only if that trust exists should people even begin to consider Polyamory? Sharing on a deep level with others outside a relationship carries benefits and risks.
Benefits include sharing on all levels, trust and mutual exploration as interests and life experiences are pursued.
Risks – people may not be as secure and alright within themselves and entering into a non monogamous relationship may merely serve to take the lid off a powder keg of problems which have lain dormant. Often if things go wrong the initial friendship may be lost or marred irrevoracably – if you are lucky though problems do work out and a status quo is kept.
Problem – it is only when such a situation is tried for some that the pitfalls may be seen and by then it is too late to turn back the clock. Tricky isn’t it?
I am big enough to admit mistakes and to share the faults and pain associated with this path and my thoughts. I admit the loss of people dear to me but I can also share the joy and wonderful times spent with people I have been close to that cannot be replaced. BUT I would proffer a cautionary note – think hard before you leap, ensure you KNOW the people better than you think you do and above all COMMUNICATE!
Or you can of course remain monogamous and too right n all I wouldn’t be without Niord in this or any other lifetime – we have implicit trust, love and a freedom afforded to both of us. For us that makes us strong as a couple and as individuals – we are lucky!
TODAYTo conclude …….phew you all yell lol
A minefield this isn’t it? It raises all sorts of questions re monogamy, Polyamory ( NOT to be confused with polygamy), sexual ethics as it were!
So a question ? Do you find that people misinterpret paganism in this way and if so how? Has anyone else found that their lifestyle in general marginalises them and they feel stigmatised?
How do you respond when people ask these sorts of questions or raise such sweeping misconceptions?
And before anyone thinks oh here goes the DDM talking sex again erm that’s not my intention or motivation – it interests me as to what makes us tick, what influences us and how paganism influences our lifestyles or vice versa?
I’ve been open about my take on life so please respect that, and be equally respectful of any other posters who choose to comment!
Full Version: So Lifestyles,paganism And Sex!
What a great topic Rhi, and thanks for being so honest I'm sure everyone will respect that.
I can't say I've come across too many people who think that as a pagan I must be a rampant nympho, on the whole people seem to think I have more of a desire to turn people into frogs than sleep with them. I do think that on the whole being pagan gives you a less moralising outlook. As a believer in personal responsability I firmly subscribe to the idea that as long as you doing what what is right for you, you're not hurting anyone and you are honest about your motives and intentions then it can't be wrong. It would certainly be eaiser to find acceptance of polyamoury in pagan or religionless circles than it would in Christian or other mainstream religions but certainly not impossible. There are several pagan paths out there that use sex and devotion as part of the bond between he group, not limiting to one partner and they haven't all switched to symbolism. This can often be twisted to exploitation but is by no means always the case.
That said, I don't think I could do it. Certainly sat in here in the first flush of a new relationship I don't see myself as ever being so attracted to anyone else that I would want to share what I have with him. That's possibly unrealistic of me but it's how I feel. As for my marriage, well one of the things that finally told me that relationship really had to end was when I found myself honestly contemplating other offers. I can't say that even when I was happy with my ex that I ever considered our relationship strong enough to weather the inclusion of anyone else, or that I would have wanted to.I can see a minefield of dangers involved in it, all based around the level of honesty between everyone in the situation. If anyone feels pressured, or isn't as honest with themselves or their partner, or has a different motivation to the one they state then people are going to get hurt. However this is the case in monogamous relationships too. You seem to know what you're doing, it works for you and that's really all that matters. Not me though, I'm strictly a one at a time girl I guess.
I can't say I've come across too many people who think that as a pagan I must be a rampant nympho, on the whole people seem to think I have more of a desire to turn people into frogs than sleep with them. I do think that on the whole being pagan gives you a less moralising outlook. As a believer in personal responsability I firmly subscribe to the idea that as long as you doing what what is right for you, you're not hurting anyone and you are honest about your motives and intentions then it can't be wrong. It would certainly be eaiser to find acceptance of polyamoury in pagan or religionless circles than it would in Christian or other mainstream religions but certainly not impossible. There are several pagan paths out there that use sex and devotion as part of the bond between he group, not limiting to one partner and they haven't all switched to symbolism. This can often be twisted to exploitation but is by no means always the case.
That said, I don't think I could do it. Certainly sat in here in the first flush of a new relationship I don't see myself as ever being so attracted to anyone else that I would want to share what I have with him. That's possibly unrealistic of me but it's how I feel. As for my marriage, well one of the things that finally told me that relationship really had to end was when I found myself honestly contemplating other offers. I can't say that even when I was happy with my ex that I ever considered our relationship strong enough to weather the inclusion of anyone else, or that I would have wanted to.I can see a minefield of dangers involved in it, all based around the level of honesty between everyone in the situation. If anyone feels pressured, or isn't as honest with themselves or their partner, or has a different motivation to the one they state then people are going to get hurt. However this is the case in monogamous relationships too. You seem to know what you're doing, it works for you and that's really all that matters. Not me though, I'm strictly a one at a time girl I guess.
Did I scare y'all? 
A heavy topic I know but hey makes the brain cells work eh 
A heavy topic I know but hey makes the brain cells work eh
Well I've no problem with the DDM talking about sex again 
But enough of that (
).
Rhi that is a really good analogy, thank you for sharing.
I have been lucky so far in that few people I've met seem to know much about paganism.
But there have been some exceptions.
One was convinced that I was slightly deranged, used my own dictionary to define such topics as 'magic' and totally shallow in my faith
Others are fine until their mental gears mesh and you see the result: pagan=witch=evil and rather than the sexual side they become more concerned with 'curses' and the devil
Though I follow what many would class as a fertility religion, I myself have little interest in sex, either for ritual, recreation or procreation. This hasn't always been the case but for the last couple of years I have found myself considering sex as something for other people - not that I find it distasteful in its self, just not for me, at the moment.
However this does not stop some people from thinking that may be I will be spending the night out in the woods cavorting with nubile young women (Ha!!)
IMHO sex can be understood and honoured in the practice of faith, without the need to constantly indulge in it. Its a bit like assuming that Christians spend their time being crucified in the practice of their faith; that is some do (particularly around Easter in the Philippines IIRC) but most just understand the meaning and honour it as such.
Otherwise as far as I am concerned people can marry, handfast, live together, live in groups, have casual or serious temporary or contracted or open ended relationships with whoever they want, whatever the sex, provided that all concerned are aware, consentual and legally and emotionally able.
My biggest problem though stems, not from my view of sex, but from my view of honesty. I believe in honesty, I do not believe in lies, and I also believe in stating what I feel, openly and honestly.
This is, I feel, part of my path. I feel that if I at least cannot present myself as an open and honest person, how can I expect the same from others. Trouble is this means that I can often be too open or too honest, and that can cause me problems.
Kev
But enough of that (
).Rhi that is a really good analogy, thank you for sharing.
I have been lucky so far in that few people I've met seem to know much about paganism.
But there have been some exceptions.
One was convinced that I was slightly deranged, used my own dictionary to define such topics as 'magic' and totally shallow in my faith
Others are fine until their mental gears mesh and you see the result: pagan=witch=evil and rather than the sexual side they become more concerned with 'curses' and the devil
Though I follow what many would class as a fertility religion, I myself have little interest in sex, either for ritual, recreation or procreation. This hasn't always been the case but for the last couple of years I have found myself considering sex as something for other people - not that I find it distasteful in its self, just not for me, at the moment.
However this does not stop some people from thinking that may be I will be spending the night out in the woods cavorting with nubile young women (Ha!!)
IMHO sex can be understood and honoured in the practice of faith, without the need to constantly indulge in it. Its a bit like assuming that Christians spend their time being crucified in the practice of their faith; that is some do (particularly around Easter in the Philippines IIRC) but most just understand the meaning and honour it as such.
Otherwise as far as I am concerned people can marry, handfast, live together, live in groups, have casual or serious temporary or contracted or open ended relationships with whoever they want, whatever the sex, provided that all concerned are aware, consentual and legally and emotionally able.
My biggest problem though stems, not from my view of sex, but from my view of honesty. I believe in honesty, I do not believe in lies, and I also believe in stating what I feel, openly and honestly.
This is, I feel, part of my path. I feel that if I at least cannot present myself as an open and honest person, how can I expect the same from others. Trouble is this means that I can often be too open or too honest, and that can cause me problems.
Kev
Agreed wholeheartedly - HONESTY is the only way and if people play with deceit they will ultimately suffer the consequences in my opinion! For myself Niord and I discuss, share and confess all our smallest thoughts, desires and fantasies - we are lucky -perhaps because we have both been married before and made mistakes that we are damned sure we wont be making any this time around. For me sex or intimacy rather isnt part of my lifestyle ie polyamory but polyamory is more an extension of the feelings, love that I have for someone who began as a friend and is now much more - the same for Niord! Wanting to be close to someone isnt always about lust, sometimes its about nearness/ warmth and trust - for me thats a more profound need than sexual intercourse. Sex is great dont get me wrong and I would be being dishonest myself if I didnt say that hormones havent played a big role in the relationship too - BUT to reiterate being honest/ open and understanding the dynamics of such an arrangement including the all important communication is fundamental. I dont think perhaps that people view my paganism as the root of my lifestyle,they just misintepret my open and tactile disposition as carte blanche for trying it on 
They soon learn that there are a FEW very special people in my life and those are cherished, loved and cuddled plus more to death and Im happy to share that! 
They soon learn that there are a FEW very special people in my life and those are cherished, loved and cuddled plus more to death and Im happy to share that!
Hmm...good topic!
The people who know I am pagan probably do think it involves a bit of sexual cavorting, but they also know that I've got quite a crude mind when it comes to jokes and I'm quite open about sex and stuff, so they probably just think..'yep, that figures!'
I understand what you're saying about how polyamory isn't about being with someone and then just shagging other people....it's about having close and intimate bonds with other people which might naturally develop into including sex.
I can see how this could be a lovely thing to have, and part of me feels as though this is probably how we are meant to live. The whole thing is natural (I personally think) and far from sounding seedy or 'loose', it sounds like an ideal state.
The problem for me however, is that I couldn't handle it in practise. If I was with someone I loved I couldn't be with someone else I don't think, even if it was with their blessing. And I certainly couldn't handle them being with anyone else. It's not just the sex...if the feelings he had for the other person were that strong, I would feel insecure I think, and I'm not an especially jealous or insecure person I don't think.
The idea of living in some kind of commune say, or even a village or something where everyone was really close and worked together on things sounds wonderful and in that situation it seems the natural way of things...but I'm just not a big enough person to be able to do it myself.
The people who know I am pagan probably do think it involves a bit of sexual cavorting, but they also know that I've got quite a crude mind when it comes to jokes and I'm quite open about sex and stuff, so they probably just think..'yep, that figures!'
I understand what you're saying about how polyamory isn't about being with someone and then just shagging other people....it's about having close and intimate bonds with other people which might naturally develop into including sex.
I can see how this could be a lovely thing to have, and part of me feels as though this is probably how we are meant to live. The whole thing is natural (I personally think) and far from sounding seedy or 'loose', it sounds like an ideal state.
The problem for me however, is that I couldn't handle it in practise. If I was with someone I loved I couldn't be with someone else I don't think, even if it was with their blessing. And I certainly couldn't handle them being with anyone else. It's not just the sex...if the feelings he had for the other person were that strong, I would feel insecure I think, and I'm not an especially jealous or insecure person I don't think.
The idea of living in some kind of commune say, or even a village or something where everyone was really close and worked together on things sounds wonderful and in that situation it seems the natural way of things...but I'm just not a big enough person to be able to do it myself.
Well, Im going to respond to the subject of polyamory first, not because I think it is seperate from the wider issues of paganism and sex but because if I included everything this post would be pages and pages long, 
I think that if more people were open to the concept of polyamory, there would be much less emotional conflict and broken relationships in this world. I dont think there is a single thing wrong with having feelings or desires for others outside of a relationship, it is purely human nature, It is where self-dishonesty leading to deception of others and acting upon those feelings inappropriately leads to pain and destruction. Rhiana is right in saying that things need not be sexual, but emotional and spiritual closeness - it does take a very special relationship to be that strong and secure not to be threatened by that and to actually draw more strength from it, which can happen.
Its something I have felt personally conflicted over many a time. It has in the past either led me to make and break relationships in a hurried and hurtful way or have stupid ill thought out flings whilst still being with someone. Its been maybe four or five years now since I have began to really understand the concept of polyamory, and I do have the internet to thank for that, lol. During a rl relationship break up some time ago, I did do a LOT of cybering, altho changing my name and place of residence otherwise being completely honest in my personality, and I found out a great deal about myself and my sexuality and my emotional spectrum and needs.
I learned to accept and be comfortable with the fact that it was ok to love and want more than one person at one time, that it was not something I need beat myself up about. I learned that there were others that felt like this, and learned and gave and received a lot of knowledge and love and positive energy from one particular guy, who was in many respects my male counterpart. We were and still are twin souls in many ways. It was such a freeing, wonderful, energising thing, and has had a lasting effect on my self confidence. Not to sound too drippy hippy
but everyone I have ever loved or been loved by in any sense is part of a much bigger love and energy, and I will always retain some of that love even if I am no longer with that person.
When I met my current partner I told him with absolute honesty that I could not be exclusive to him. He was so accepting of this and who I was that I was deeply touched. Not just tolerating it and secretly judgemental or resenting but completely accepting. He has emphasised over and over, by word and deed, that he has no wish for anyone else but me himself but he has understanding for my needs and does not feel threatened by them. In all my life I have never felt so thoroughly and utterly loved for who I truly am, through and through. It is this wonderful freedom and support that ironically enough has led me to enter into a totally monogamous relationship with him. My choice entirely and one that I felt instinctively to be right. He is not perfect by any means, but perfect for me, and I do feel incredibly happy and secure in ways I have neevr before known.
I love my partner dearly, and hope we will be be together for the rest of our lives. If this were not to happen, for one reason or another, I would not discount the possibilty in the distant future of living within a poly relationship. Human nature in the shape of jealousy and possessive and dishonesty lurk around the corner in anykind of relationship, but I see polyamory as a good opportunity to diminish the effect of those nasty imps
I think that if more people were open to the concept of polyamory, there would be much less emotional conflict and broken relationships in this world. I dont think there is a single thing wrong with having feelings or desires for others outside of a relationship, it is purely human nature, It is where self-dishonesty leading to deception of others and acting upon those feelings inappropriately leads to pain and destruction. Rhiana is right in saying that things need not be sexual, but emotional and spiritual closeness - it does take a very special relationship to be that strong and secure not to be threatened by that and to actually draw more strength from it, which can happen.
Its something I have felt personally conflicted over many a time. It has in the past either led me to make and break relationships in a hurried and hurtful way or have stupid ill thought out flings whilst still being with someone. Its been maybe four or five years now since I have began to really understand the concept of polyamory, and I do have the internet to thank for that, lol. During a rl relationship break up some time ago, I did do a LOT of cybering, altho changing my name and place of residence otherwise being completely honest in my personality, and I found out a great deal about myself and my sexuality and my emotional spectrum and needs.
I learned to accept and be comfortable with the fact that it was ok to love and want more than one person at one time, that it was not something I need beat myself up about. I learned that there were others that felt like this, and learned and gave and received a lot of knowledge and love and positive energy from one particular guy, who was in many respects my male counterpart. We were and still are twin souls in many ways. It was such a freeing, wonderful, energising thing, and has had a lasting effect on my self confidence. Not to sound too drippy hippy
but everyone I have ever loved or been loved by in any sense is part of a much bigger love and energy, and I will always retain some of that love even if I am no longer with that person.When I met my current partner I told him with absolute honesty that I could not be exclusive to him. He was so accepting of this and who I was that I was deeply touched. Not just tolerating it and secretly judgemental or resenting but completely accepting. He has emphasised over and over, by word and deed, that he has no wish for anyone else but me himself but he has understanding for my needs and does not feel threatened by them. In all my life I have never felt so thoroughly and utterly loved for who I truly am, through and through. It is this wonderful freedom and support that ironically enough has led me to enter into a totally monogamous relationship with him. My choice entirely and one that I felt instinctively to be right. He is not perfect by any means, but perfect for me, and I do feel incredibly happy and secure in ways I have neevr before known.
I love my partner dearly, and hope we will be be together for the rest of our lives. If this were not to happen, for one reason or another, I would not discount the possibilty in the distant future of living within a poly relationship. Human nature in the shape of jealousy and possessive and dishonesty lurk around the corner in anykind of relationship, but I see polyamory as a good opportunity to diminish the effect of those nasty imps
Much as I want to reply to this.. yesterday was Boxing Day... and today and tomorrow I will be recovering... Until then... nice topic! Will get into it as soon as my brain function returns to normal! 
Wow, that one was a biggy, i saw the word sex and was straight in here
Ive found some xtians have that missconception about paganism and sex, at least i think its a misconception, if it isnt im doing something wrong. Peoples also have lots of hangups about sex and nudity and i myself think its down to society and political and religious opression for generations.
Sorry for such short reply to long post but theres triffle and chocolate cake to eat for breakfast.
Ive found some xtians have that missconception about paganism and sex, at least i think its a misconception, if it isnt im doing something wrong.
Peoples also have lots of hangups about sex and nudity and i myself think its down to society and political and religious opression for generations.Sorry for such short reply to long post but theres triffle and chocolate cake to eat for breakfast.
Wow Lady thank you for such a measured and honest response.Way to go it isnt easy to open up that much on a public board 
I know because last time I brought this topic up the misconceptions came from the pagan community rather than the general population! Niord and I got into this after about 5 years of marriage - we drifted into a more intimate relationship with a couple we knew but learnt that not all people can operate in that way and moved on - latterly we met another couple and I found a partner that I click with in a multitude of ways. Niord does not mind this, he is close to the lady concerned and knows that there is no threat to us - we are as solid as a rock and couldnt contemplate another life partner. We are largely monogamous - the couple live away and so contact is chiefly net/phone based but when we do meet it is as if nothing has altered, and as the chap is also pagan I can share on a deep spiritual level that I very much need at times.
We are not looking for multiple relationships but have learnt the value and depth that can be found within polyamory - yes there has been problems in the past- anyone who thinks jealousies are not around lives in the twilight zone BUT communication as I have said usually clears that up, and I have to emphasise that ALL in the arrangement have to be in the loop and talking!
Leave one person out and you are asking for trouble!
Nothing is lacking in my marriage and that is the usual presumption hurled around - I nearly lost Niord 5 years ago to cancer and if anyone thinks that the prospect of being without him is bearable then think again - we have our ups and downs like any couple but we also live and breathe in unison! We realised that we are more open than many people, we are more tactile, to lie on a bed with 3 people you love and have a cuddle is very nurturing - to lie there and talk, share, kiss and give out tlc and get it back is inexplicably life changing. If you can do it then you reap the rewards( being mindful of the pitfalls), if you cannot then that is also fab - not everyone is able to be as secure and that is not a criticism 99% of the population prefer one to one and too right n all Oh and incidentally if anyone comes to stay with us? NO we wont be predatory, wanting to get into stuff and we are not open to offers either
Be interested to hear any more views?
I know because last time I brought this topic up the misconceptions came from the pagan community rather than the general population! Niord and I got into this after about 5 years of marriage - we drifted into a more intimate relationship with a couple we knew but learnt that not all people can operate in that way and moved on - latterly we met another couple and I found a partner that I click with in a multitude of ways. Niord does not mind this, he is close to the lady concerned and knows that there is no threat to us - we are as solid as a rock and couldnt contemplate another life partner. We are largely monogamous - the couple live away and so contact is chiefly net/phone based but when we do meet it is as if nothing has altered, and as the chap is also pagan I can share on a deep spiritual level that I very much need at times.We are not looking for multiple relationships but have learnt the value and depth that can be found within polyamory - yes there has been problems in the past- anyone who thinks jealousies are not around lives in the twilight zone BUT communication as I have said usually clears that up, and I have to emphasise that ALL in the arrangement have to be in the loop and talking!
Leave one person out and you are asking for trouble!Nothing is lacking in my marriage and that is the usual presumption hurled around - I nearly lost Niord 5 years ago to cancer and if anyone thinks that the prospect of being without him is bearable then think again - we have our ups and downs like any couple but we also live and breathe in unison!
We realised that we are more open than many people, we are more tactile, to lie on a bed with 3 people you love and have a cuddle is very nurturing - to lie there and talk, share, kiss and give out tlc and get it back is inexplicably life changing. If you can do it then you reap the rewards( being mindful of the pitfalls), if you cannot then that is also fab - not everyone is able to be as secure and that is not a criticism 99% of the population prefer one to one and too right n all Oh and incidentally if anyone comes to stay with us? NO we wont be predatory, wanting to get into stuff and we are not open to offers either Be interested to hear any more views?
I thank you for your honesty and generosity in sharing in the first place Rhi. It was a very brave move indeed I gotta admit I am a very private person generally, honest certainly but a little reserved esp in public space like this, but I just sometimes feel able to open up on subjects like this when occasion demands and it feels right, which it did this time even I too was a little anxious about doing so, just because my rl best mate has just joined UKP and though he knows quite a bit about me having known me for nearly 16 years this would be a new side to me he would experience.
I agree that poly relationships are as vulnerable to any to jealousy and possessiveness etc ( that unfortunately was a major problem with the guy I mentioned halfway along in my previous post, not from he or I but from another lady in the equation, who continually struggled with her desire to please him by appearing to go with the flow and be free and giving, and her deeper desire to have him all to herself, which caused many dramas ! ) but if the concept of polyamory is grasped as firmly as a nettle, then the chances of those things stinging are greatly diminished, and honesty and communication and all the good stuff can grow and blossom greatly.
I also totally agree that poly is not the way to go for many or most people, as you pointed out not many people feel that confident and secure - I just wish more people would open their mind to the idea of it because I think that path has many positive possibilities. Much work has to be done to break down the misconceptions tho, like the predatory wifeswapping image but I think the more things are discussed and brought out into the open in a civilised manner the better and glad your post has so far met with a better response than the last time, Rhi
I gotta admit I am a very private person generally, honest certainly but a little reserved esp in public space like this, but I just sometimes feel able to open up on subjects like this when occasion demands and it feels right, which it did this time even I too was a little anxious about doing so, just because my rl best mate has just joined UKP and though he knows quite a bit about me having known me for nearly 16 years this would be a new side to me he would experience.I agree that poly relationships are as vulnerable to any to jealousy and possessiveness etc ( that unfortunately was a major problem with the guy I mentioned halfway along in my previous post, not from he or I but from another lady in the equation, who continually struggled with her desire to please him by appearing to go with the flow and be free and giving, and her deeper desire to have him all to herself, which caused many dramas ! ) but if the concept of polyamory is grasped as firmly as a nettle, then the chances of those things stinging are greatly diminished, and honesty and communication and all the good stuff can grow and blossom greatly.
I also totally agree that poly is not the way to go for many or most people, as you pointed out not many people feel that confident and secure - I just wish more people would open their mind to the idea of it because I think that path has many positive possibilities. Much work has to be done to break down the misconceptions tho, like the predatory wifeswapping image
but I think the more things are discussed and brought out into the open in a civilised manner the better and glad your post has so far met with a better response than the last time, Rhi
I never really understood polyamory before you talked about it onsite a few years ago Rhi. My thoughts on it have very much changed, and I have to say that being a part of such an open pagan forum has affected my opinions greatly over the years. I do think out of all groups, pagans are more likely to be accepting, possibly because we seem to have less hangups about sex. Mainly because for many christains the church taught that sex was a sin It doesn't mean that all Pagans are accepting, we're a very diverse group.
Would I do it? A few years ago I would have said no, now though I'm not so sure that I'd say no. However I am single so am not sure how would I feel if I was with someone. The point about this is that it is done in love and in trust. It is not about one night stands (something I would not do,) but about friendship, love, and real trust. I have a very special relationship with my best friend, it suits us both very well but I have been single over three years and not looking. I would rather have very deep and meaningful trust than an idle relationship without care or love.
It doesn't mean that all Pagans are accepting, we're a very diverse group. Would I do it? A few years ago I would have said no, now though I'm not so sure that I'd say no. However I am single so am not sure how would I feel if I was with someone. The point about this is that it is done in love and in trust. It is not about one night stands (something I would not do,) but about friendship, love, and real trust. I have a very special relationship with my best friend, it suits us both very well but I have been single over three years and not looking. I would rather have very deep and meaningful trust than an idle relationship without care or love.
Right back to what i said before, yes i blame the xtian church everyone is taught that sex and nudity is wrong (or rather WRONG !) and hence society has increadible hangups, like just look at laws they where talking of that would make it illegal to be seen naked in your own garden/house as it could offend, and ths week the police visited someone who had two nude garden nomes as someone complained it was offensive.
If people want to do things and no-one is forced into anything then it should be up to them what they do and not the law or church,
If people want to do things and no-one is forced into anything then it should be up to them what they do and not the law or church,
QUOTE
and ths week the police visited someone who had two nude garden nomes as someone complained it was offensive.
Where was that one? I missed that story!
So a nude garden gnome is offensive but a tasteful nude statue of a male or female form is not? Yet one is based on real nudity and the other on ... well a garden gnome, oh dear me Mind I have seen some very immature toys and gadgets about, some things are just purile, but it doesn't make them offensive, just sold to the brainless for the brainless
But it would be a boring world if we all liked the same things
Dec 27, 2004
By Mark Coppenger
EVANSTON, Ill. (BP)--I came across "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Paganism" in the library the other day and gave it a look. Old fashioned paganism is on the rise once again, and I wanted to see what they had to say about Wicca.
Those guides for "idiots" and "dummies" are often quite insightful, providing accessible summaries for a range of phenomena and schools of thought. But this time the "idiot" in the title seemed especially appropriate.
Carl McColman, the author, is described on the back cover as "a practitioner of nature spirituality," "co-founder and former leader of a druid grove," and "co-leader of an interfaith pagan meditation circle."
Busy boy, that Carl.
The passage that particularly prompted my wonder was one that justified "polyamory" as:
"the belief that it's okay to love more than one person at a time, as long as the love is expressed ethically and honestly to all persons involved. Such love can be expressed sexually or not. It might involve people who live together in a group marriage, or it might involve people who love several different partners who live in different places."
He then offers the strangest justification for such behavior:
"Like many elements of paganism, polyamory has its connection to nature. The bonobo, a species of chimpanzee whose genetic makeup is extremely similar to humans, is remarkable for living in peaceful societies where there's lots of monkey business going on -- literally. Most bonobos are bisexual and, to put it delicately, very active. ... Polyamourous pagans cite the bonobos as evidence that sexual freedom occurs in nature and therefore is a valid lifestyle option."
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=19793
By Mark Coppenger
EVANSTON, Ill. (BP)--I came across "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Paganism" in the library the other day and gave it a look. Old fashioned paganism is on the rise once again, and I wanted to see what they had to say about Wicca.
Those guides for "idiots" and "dummies" are often quite insightful, providing accessible summaries for a range of phenomena and schools of thought. But this time the "idiot" in the title seemed especially appropriate.
Carl McColman, the author, is described on the back cover as "a practitioner of nature spirituality," "co-founder and former leader of a druid grove," and "co-leader of an interfaith pagan meditation circle."
Busy boy, that Carl.
The passage that particularly prompted my wonder was one that justified "polyamory" as:
"the belief that it's okay to love more than one person at a time, as long as the love is expressed ethically and honestly to all persons involved. Such love can be expressed sexually or not. It might involve people who live together in a group marriage, or it might involve people who love several different partners who live in different places."
He then offers the strangest justification for such behavior:
"Like many elements of paganism, polyamory has its connection to nature. The bonobo, a species of chimpanzee whose genetic makeup is extremely similar to humans, is remarkable for living in peaceful societies where there's lots of monkey business going on -- literally. Most bonobos are bisexual and, to put it delicately, very active. ... Polyamourous pagans cite the bonobos as evidence that sexual freedom occurs in nature and therefore is a valid lifestyle option."
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=19793
Interesting counterpoint to Rhianna's thread, putting both an alternate justification and the expected Christian reply.
Methinks the 2 threads belong together...if only so that Rhi's reasonned explanation of polyamory can show these 2 for what they are.
Kev
Methinks the 2 threads belong together...if only so that Rhi's reasonned explanation of polyamory can show these 2 for what they are.
Kev
I got the book THE COMPLETE IDIOT'S GUIDE TO WICCA AND WITCHCRAFT . The books better than i thought it would be only bought it for a laugh but its quiet good realy blessins to all
Bert
Well my response is going to be predictably incensed iniit 
What a complete misrepresentation in a nutshell..argghh this kind of thing makes my blood boil
I would dearly love to meet the polyamorous pagans who allegedly made the comparative justification with a bunch of chimpanzees If they are for real then they are dressing up polyamory as a justification for " bed hopping" so why dont they just call it what they think it is and thats " swinging"!!
Polyamory isnt about SEX and SEXUAL FREEDOM - its about the expression of feeling for another human being outside of a relationship ( usually monogamous). Take a deep connection with a friend who you care for dearly who has similar interests and outlook on life, whose company makes you feel special, whose caring and generous nature has made your world a better place. Then add the value of touch as a loving thing and you have the first step with all consenting adults towards polyamory! Cuddling can lead to expressing love in a physical sense and thats wonderful thing to share
So a group of chimps sit down discuss politics, paganism,share a meal and then snuggle on the sofa for a cuddle and then think wayyhayyyy lets go jump someones bones? I dont think so and nor do polyamorists in the true sense of the word! I think I may have to dig out some more info on this lifestyle so that people can grasp the real truth against the supreme stupidity of claims such as has been stated in this book!! I mean you can see it now - newbies think oohhh an idiots guide - must be true and if I say I am poly and pagan I can go out and experiment sexually with no conscience? Sheeshshshshsh the Goddess save us!!
Can we have this bloke on UKP for an interview and we can see where his sources and braincells come from?
Oh and one of the best quotes I ever saw on a poly site was this ...
"The thing to remember is that the sexuality of a relationship is
not the most important aspect of it. The best thing I can do for
either of my partners is meet them at the door with a buttered
biscuit and a smile."
I couldnt agree more except in our case its ..TOAST!!
http://songweaver.com/info/bonobos.html - heres the original research on the chimps - wow aint research easily warped to suit someones moral self justification!
as the guy says
So let the pagans emulate the primates if they will, but stop them if they start to eat their kids, even if they object that it's only natural Oh and guess what hes a christian - poor sod doesnt he know there are also polyamorous christians out there n all!!!
Ach rant over - FOR NOW!!
What a complete misrepresentation in a nutshell..argghh this kind of thing makes my blood boil
I would dearly love to meet the polyamorous pagans who allegedly made the comparative justification with a bunch of chimpanzees If they are for real then they are dressing up polyamory as a justification for " bed hopping" so why dont they just call it what they think it is and thats " swinging"!!Polyamory isnt about SEX and SEXUAL FREEDOM - its about the expression of feeling for another human being outside of a relationship ( usually monogamous). Take a deep connection with a friend who you care for dearly who has similar interests and outlook on life, whose company makes you feel special, whose caring and generous nature has made your world a better place. Then add the value of touch as a loving thing and you have the first step with all consenting adults towards polyamory! Cuddling can lead to expressing love in a physical sense and thats wonderful thing to share
So a group of chimps sit down discuss politics, paganism,share a meal and then snuggle on the sofa for a cuddle and then think wayyhayyyy lets go jump someones bones?
I dont think so and nor do polyamorists in the true sense of the word! I think I may have to dig out some more info on this lifestyle so that people can grasp the real truth against the supreme stupidity of claims such as has been stated in this book!! I mean you can see it now - newbies think oohhh an idiots guide - must be true and if I say I am poly and pagan I can go out and experiment sexually with no conscience? Sheeshshshshsh the Goddess save us!!Can we have this bloke on UKP for an interview and we can see where his sources and braincells come from?
Oh and one of the best quotes I ever saw on a poly site was this ...
"The thing to remember is that the sexuality of a relationship is
not the most important aspect of it. The best thing I can do for
either of my partners is meet them at the door with a buttered
biscuit and a smile."
I couldnt agree more except in our case its ..TOAST!!
http://songweaver.com/info/bonobos.html - heres the original research on the chimps - wow aint research easily warped to suit someones moral self justification!
as the guy says
So let the pagans emulate the primates if they will, but stop them if they start to eat their kids, even if they object that it's only natural Oh and guess what hes a christian - poor sod doesnt he know there are also polyamorous christians out there n all!!!
Ach rant over - FOR NOW!!
I wondered if I should duck after moving that here!!
I must admit I had to read it twice, I couldn't believe what he wrote the first time.
I must admit I had to read it twice, I couldn't believe what he wrote the first time.
Cosmic!! Hey good move and it let me have a rant so no harm done unless I meet this baptist minister!! eek me dad was one of then and he wasnt one 10th as judgemental in his attitudes!
QUOTE(Rhiana @ Dec 29 2004, 07:29 PM)
Well my response is going to be predictably incensed iniit
Can we have this bloke on UKP for an interview and we can see where his sources and braincells come from?
Can we have this bloke on UKP for an interview and we can see where his sources and braincells come from?
Wow, go get the guy and string him up
Not a problem!! 
QUOTE(Rhiana @ Dec 29 2004, 07:59 PM)
Cosmic!! Hey good move and it let me have a rant so no harm done unless I meet this baptist minister!! 
Can I watch
Okey Doke.. I THINK my brain cells are working again.. so Im gonna have a bash at this one.
Starting off with peoples conceptions of what paganism is.
There are very few people that I know that actually know that I am a pagan. My family.. natually enough, my bf, my closest friends and few people that I would consider as just "friends" you know.. those people you dont see very often, but get on the best with. The reasoning behind this is not to shield myself or an attempt to staying in the closet, its just that it doesnt come up. I dont go out of my way to "appear" pagan and while Im happy enough to celebrate solstices etc etc people from work (when I was working) paid no heed to me. So Ive not found too may people thinking that I dance neekid round bonfires cumulating in a mass orgy! I have however found from those that do know a expectation for me to hug trees, swoon at the sight of a full moon, or skip merrily though a field of flowers
Certainly one friend said to me at Yule.. not to spend too much time outisde nekkid hugging trees as it was cold and I should stay in crack a beer and light a candle.. BUT it was a joke.. and an appreciated one at that...
Maybe Im lucky. The people in my life who do know.. are very understanding and non-judgemental.
I HAVE come across the odd Xtain nut who when I was wearing my pentagram tutted and made under the breath comments.. but I recon we have all experienced stuff like this at some stage and it tends to be water off a ducks back for me.. I get FAR mor upset when walking down the street some spotty teen and his mates seems to think Im fair game for a "fat" comment.
As for polyamory...
I DO think it is posible to love more than one person at once. Because I believe that there are many many forms of love. Love for parents, siblings, friends all different, but all love. The loss of one of these people from our lives breaks our hearts and that is because of the love we feel for them.
When it comes to sex however... Im not sure that I "get" it. I can see sex when you are not in a relationship as something that can be fun and recreational. I can even understand in a relationship, people cybering because.. IMHO all that is, is another form of porn.. a way to titilate and have some fun.. same as I dont have a problem with regular porn in the relationship in the form of books, mags or video.
However. To me sex is something that when in a relationship is what sets it appart. I certainly would not be happy to try polyamory. I view sex between two people in a relationship as something special.. I feel that if you were to develop a relationship with someone else, and extended that out to including sex that you are taking something from the relationship that you are in. I certainly couldnt handle it. I would feel like I was betraying them even if I did have consent and it would make me concerned that the person I was with was with, was happy with me sharing myself with someone else in that way. I can fully understand getting something from others in a non physical way. No matter who you are with, you make friendships and relationships with others based on mutual interests, likes.. chemestry.. whatever it may be, but I dont understand the need to extend that into sex. Sex is a deeply intimate way of expressing an emotion that I can not see me attaching to more than one person at a time. Unless there is no emotion involved, and then thats just swinging I guess, or having meaningles sex.
Now before Rhi and Lady go jumping all over me. This is how I feel.
If others are happy with it and want to do it. Im certainly not going to tell them they cant. I wont lie and say I wouldnt judge it. I think human nature makes us judge things we dont understand, and I WOULD wonder what is lacking from the relationships by people who conduct polyamoryus (is that the right gramatical use of the word??) relationships. I would wonder what problems are lying ahead for them. Like I say.. its not something I understand. And I hope before you all go beating me with big sticks, you apprecaite that I am being honest in my reactions to it. While I COULD just say.. "yeah yeah.. go for it.. whatever floats yer boat... I would never judge.." I would be lying.
Starting off with peoples conceptions of what paganism is.
There are very few people that I know that actually know that I am a pagan. My family.. natually enough, my bf, my closest friends and few people that I would consider as just "friends" you know.. those people you dont see very often, but get on the best with. The reasoning behind this is not to shield myself or an attempt to staying in the closet, its just that it doesnt come up. I dont go out of my way to "appear" pagan and while Im happy enough to celebrate solstices etc etc people from work (when I was working) paid no heed to me. So Ive not found too may people thinking that I dance neekid round bonfires cumulating in a mass orgy! I have however found from those that do know a expectation for me to hug trees, swoon at the sight of a full moon, or skip merrily though a field of flowers
Certainly one friend said to me at Yule.. not to spend too much time outisde nekkid hugging trees as it was cold and I should stay in crack a beer and light a candle.. BUT it was a joke.. and an appreciated one at that...
Maybe Im lucky. The people in my life who do know.. are very understanding and non-judgemental.
I HAVE come across the odd Xtain nut who when I was wearing my pentagram tutted and made under the breath comments.. but I recon we have all experienced stuff like this at some stage and it tends to be water off a ducks back for me.. I get FAR mor upset when walking down the street some spotty teen and his mates seems to think Im fair game for a "fat" comment.
As for polyamory...
I DO think it is posible to love more than one person at once. Because I believe that there are many many forms of love. Love for parents, siblings, friends all different, but all love. The loss of one of these people from our lives breaks our hearts and that is because of the love we feel for them.
When it comes to sex however... Im not sure that I "get" it. I can see sex when you are not in a relationship as something that can be fun and recreational. I can even understand in a relationship, people cybering because.. IMHO all that is, is another form of porn.. a way to titilate and have some fun.. same as I dont have a problem with regular porn in the relationship in the form of books, mags or video.
However. To me sex is something that when in a relationship is what sets it appart. I certainly would not be happy to try polyamory. I view sex between two people in a relationship as something special.. I feel that if you were to develop a relationship with someone else, and extended that out to including sex that you are taking something from the relationship that you are in. I certainly couldnt handle it. I would feel like I was betraying them even if I did have consent and it would make me concerned that the person I was with was with, was happy with me sharing myself with someone else in that way. I can fully understand getting something from others in a non physical way. No matter who you are with, you make friendships and relationships with others based on mutual interests, likes.. chemestry.. whatever it may be, but I dont understand the need to extend that into sex. Sex is a deeply intimate way of expressing an emotion that I can not see me attaching to more than one person at a time. Unless there is no emotion involved, and then thats just swinging I guess, or having meaningles sex.
Now before Rhi and Lady go jumping all over me. This is how I feel.
If others are happy with it and want to do it. Im certainly not going to tell them they cant. I wont lie and say I wouldnt judge it. I think human nature makes us judge things we dont understand, and I WOULD wonder what is lacking from the relationships by people who conduct polyamoryus (is that the right gramatical use of the word??) relationships. I would wonder what problems are lying ahead for them. Like I say.. its not something I understand. And I hope before you all go beating me with big sticks, you apprecaite that I am being honest in my reactions to it. While I COULD just say.. "yeah yeah.. go for it.. whatever floats yer boat... I would never judge.." I would be lying.
Well to be honest I'd never even heard of polyamory let alone known what it meant til now. I know it's not for me. One partner is enough and I could never do that to them oe myself. It wouldn't feel right and I would still feel as if I was cheating on them whether given their consent or not. I'm only really newly into a relationship as we've been going out about a month to two months. We know when we got together a couple of my male friends were upset because I was dating him and in some cases they were affected badly and don't talk to me any more. Now this was just in cases where I was friends with them just firneds nothing more, no flirting or anything I'd hate to imagine how they would of reacted if anything else had happened.
LIke Xalle said there are loads of views of love. I love everyone in a different way to everyone else. Whether the difference be slight or huge. I could never love my stripped friend like I do my moogle friend or my brother the way I love my friends. I love them for different reasons because they share some of my interests that others don't. Because some can make me smile and laugh no matter what and others I can be serious with.
I also believe at times these variations on love can get confused. (I'm not saying anyone here has got confused just saying at times it can happen.)I've known several people be "in love" with someone or "love" someone just to find out a while later that it wasn't what they thought it was and ended the relationship due to it and sadly in some cases the friendship that was before that was lost.
All those that know I'm a witch have pretty much accepted it. I get a couple of jokes that are meant well and plenty of them have questions and I answer them as best as possible. I have had a couple of remarks that I've had to put people back in their place so to speak and tell them the truth and that no I don't ride a broom or have sex with every single guy I know but other than that they accpet me for me and nothing else.
LIke Xalle said there are loads of views of love. I love everyone in a different way to everyone else. Whether the difference be slight or huge. I could never love my stripped friend like I do my moogle friend or my brother the way I love my friends. I love them for different reasons because they share some of my interests that others don't. Because some can make me smile and laugh no matter what and others I can be serious with.
I also believe at times these variations on love can get confused. (I'm not saying anyone here has got confused just saying at times it can happen.)I've known several people be "in love" with someone or "love" someone just to find out a while later that it wasn't what they thought it was and ended the relationship due to it and sadly in some cases the friendship that was before that was lost.
All those that know I'm a witch have pretty much accepted it. I get a couple of jokes that are meant well and plenty of them have questions and I answer them as best as possible. I have had a couple of remarks that I've had to put people back in their place so to speak and tell them the truth and that no I don't ride a broom or have sex with every single guy I know but other than that they accpet me for me and nothing else.
"I hope before you all go beating me with big sticks, you appreciate that I am being honest in my reactions to it"
I'd be the last to do that! Like you say each to their own and people have differing views of what they want and need from relationships! We cannot all be the same or the world would be damn boring! I dont judge others and as long as they dont judge me I'm a happy poly bunny. It wouldnt be possible to relate into words the foundation that Niord and I work from to other people,especially as they may feel monogamy is the only way, and it would be presumptuous for me to try - so thank you for your honesty!
I'd be the last to do that! Like you say each to their own and people have differing views of what they want and need from relationships! We cannot all be the same or the world would be damn boring! I dont judge others and as long as they dont judge me I'm a happy poly bunny. It wouldnt be possible to relate into words the foundation that Niord and I work from to other people,especially as they may feel monogamy is the only way, and it would be presumptuous for me to try - so thank you for your honesty!
QUOTE(Rhiana @ Jan 1 2005, 11:28 AM)
I'm a happy poly bunny.
you mean 'bunny' as in 'fluffy bunny', love and light sort of stuff ?
HOW DARE YOU SIR!
I would be lying if I said I didnt feel marginally defensive about my relationship with Niord, as the atypical response that we get is that people assume we have something missing as a couple, and thus are looking for something to fill that void! Anyone who has met us has commented how strong and close we are and I cannot stress enough that the man is the centre of my universe - I nearly lost him 6 years ago to cancer, and you dont go through the prospect of losing someone in that way and then risk it for anything!
I can see that people are more comfortable with the being able to "love" someone else romantically - there are many types of love in the world, and all of us fall in love with people in our daily lives. The love we share with a life partner is irreplacable and unique - that is special and no one else fits that niche in my life. I however met someone who I became close to, as did Niord, and realised that we could love these people without it putting our own relationship in some kind of danger. Yes Jealousies raise their heads and if anyone says in a poly setup that they dont then they are lying! But as I have also said before communication lies at the heart of this along with mutual respect for all people involved. Along with that is the expression of that feeling for someone physically - you said Xalle
"I feel that if you were to develop a relationship with someone else, and extended that out to including sex that you are taking something from the relationship that you are in"
that is fundamentally the basis of monogamy and peoples reasons for remaining in a monogamous relationship and absoutely right on if thats how someone feels their relationship should be.
I have never found sharing in this way with my poly partner that I have taken from the relationship with Niord! I perhaps cannot express this in a way that people can comprehend - if you havent done it and been there perhaps it is an utterly alien concept! We have found that in fact our relationship has become stronger and brought us closer if anything! Puzzling isnt it!
I am pleased that people have discussed this topic in a measured way - judgements are made when someone reveals something as profound about themselves as I did when I began this thread - and I was apprehensive when I did so, as anyone who has read my blog will see. So far I dont feel marginalised as much as viewed with puzzlement - I can live with that!
I can see that people are more comfortable with the being able to "love" someone else romantically - there are many types of love in the world, and all of us fall in love with people in our daily lives. The love we share with a life partner is irreplacable and unique - that is special and no one else fits that niche in my life. I however met someone who I became close to, as did Niord, and realised that we could love these people without it putting our own relationship in some kind of danger. Yes Jealousies raise their heads and if anyone says in a poly setup that they dont then they are lying! But as I have also said before communication lies at the heart of this along with mutual respect for all people involved. Along with that is the expression of that feeling for someone physically - you said Xalle
"I feel that if you were to develop a relationship with someone else, and extended that out to including sex that you are taking something from the relationship that you are in"
that is fundamentally the basis of monogamy and peoples reasons for remaining in a monogamous relationship and absoutely right on if thats how someone feels their relationship should be.
I have never found sharing in this way with my poly partner that I have taken from the relationship with Niord! I perhaps cannot express this in a way that people can comprehend - if you havent done it and been there perhaps it is an utterly alien concept! We have found that in fact our relationship has become stronger and brought us closer if anything! Puzzling isnt it!
I am pleased that people have discussed this topic in a measured way - judgements are made when someone reveals something as profound about themselves as I did when I began this thread - and I was apprehensive when I did so, as anyone who has read my blog will see. So far I dont feel marginalised as much as viewed with puzzlement - I can live with that!
If you are in a relationship And not sure of it, poly is not for you sometimes people enter in to it to make their own relationship better, only to find it blows it apart. ( I use YOU in a general sense)
When reading about a poly relationship it is natural to equate it to your own circumstances, and what shows are the worries and dangers that are associated with your own relationship not mine and Rhiana's. We have no problem with letting others into our relationship as we are safe and secure. Never in our time when we have been involved with others have we ever thought that there has been a danger of losing each other. And we do talk about such things, We are two parts of a whole and it just doesn't enter the equation. NO ONE could come even close to rhiana but that doesn't stop me feeling for others.
I have been in normal relationships and they haven't worked for me. We have no secrets and no dark corners and are above all open and honest. We all love more than one person and if thats a sister or brother or mum, dad child then thats ok we would not have this same discussion about loving more than one person then. There is not much difference in loving others except we keep coming back to sex. I think people give up too easy on relationships and hem each other in too much nowadays and I thank the gods that me and Rhiana are not like that. We love others in a real way not just sex. We are not looking for something other than what we have so it has no danger. We are life partners and that means forever and we constantly work at that. Dont also think this is something we do everyday - it is ongoing with a small number of people and I mean a small number and they are special to us. Rhianas partner is my friend and I love him too (not in a physical way but in a spiritual way) So please be careful about what you assume about our relationship it might not be for you but that does not make it wrong only different and I hope you find in your monogany as much happiness as we find day to day with each other.
Blessings NIord
When reading about a poly relationship it is natural to equate it to your own circumstances, and what shows are the worries and dangers that are associated with your own relationship not mine and Rhiana's. We have no problem with letting others into our relationship as we are safe and secure. Never in our time when we have been involved with others have we ever thought that there has been a danger of losing each other. And we do talk about such things, We are two parts of a whole and it just doesn't enter the equation. NO ONE could come even close to rhiana but that doesn't stop me feeling for others.
I have been in normal relationships and they haven't worked for me. We have no secrets and no dark corners and are above all open and honest. We all love more than one person and if thats a sister or brother or mum, dad child then thats ok we would not have this same discussion about loving more than one person then. There is not much difference in loving others except we keep coming back to sex. I think people give up too easy on relationships and hem each other in too much nowadays and I thank the gods that me and Rhiana are not like that. We love others in a real way not just sex. We are not looking for something other than what we have so it has no danger. We are life partners and that means forever and we constantly work at that. Dont also think this is something we do everyday - it is ongoing with a small number of people and I mean a small number and they are special to us. Rhianas partner is my friend and I love him too (not in a physical way but in a spiritual way) So please be careful about what you assume about our relationship it might not be for you but that does not make it wrong only different and I hope you find in your monogany as much happiness as we find day to day with each other.
Blessings NIord
QUOTE(Rhiana @ Jan 1 2005, 04:15 PM)
HOW DARE YOU SIR! Phew, the last smiley makes me think you realised that i WAS joking, mysticcat wipes persperation from brow
Course I knew ... now where was I ?"Come here puss!"
Ghighighighi... I am smiling I like this site
I did not know I was a pagan but just acted like one. It is in my nature. Others like my strange habbits and interests, my honesty and my allergy to taboes. Some complement me about it. I never told them it was paganism, because I did not know! Whahahahaha. lol Some time ago a child asked me how it could be that I could talk with cats. Whahahaha. Well, I was ashamed and said I could not. But knowing more about me makes me stronger in being different. At day I am a woman in a suit and at night I am Talletje. lol Aaaah.
So, polygamy with sex. Yes I will. But not now. We are in a 6 years young relationship and I am young myself. It has to be the right time and very solid. That is my opinion and feeling about it. But no experience yet.
I did not know I was a pagan but just acted like one. It is in my nature. Others like my strange habbits and interests, my honesty and my allergy to taboes. Some complement me about it. I never told them it was paganism, because I did not know! Whahahahaha. lol Some time ago a child asked me how it could be that I could talk with cats. Whahahaha. Well, I was ashamed and said I could not. But knowing more about me makes me stronger in being different. At day I am a woman in a suit and at night I am Talletje.
lol Aaaah. So, polygamy with sex. Yes I will. But not now. We are in a 6 years young relationship and I am young myself. It has to be the right time and very solid. That is my opinion and feeling about it. But no experience yet.
Fascinating topic.
I'm really not sure of my stance, so I'll keep typing and see where it takes me.
Sex to me is something very wonderful and it doesn't matter if its in a recreational or more intimate setting, its still a wonderful experience to be enjoyed and celebrated. Part of what draws me to my path is the complete acceptance of sex as natural, no sin whatsoever.
I do consider myself an earthy soul, I find as much pleasure in talking about sex and laughing about it as I do in the actual deed. And yes it does play a part in my path, generally because after a ritual (done alone) I feel relaxed and often horny and so the hubby gets his bone jumped and certain sabbats make me feel more horny than others.
I've just asked my husband what he thinks of polygamy and whether he thinks it could have a place in our relationship and he says no. Far as he's concerned he's made a commitment to me and he doesnt see how it can work without it being hurtful. (yep considering jumping his bones - awww sweet guy.......) anyway, what was I saying? Oh, yeah.
Polygamy, I believe, is a valid lifestyle, and I can see some big merits, of having several partners each fullfilling different areas, for instance, in my case, if polygamy was an option in my marriage, I could see myself becoming involved with another pagan, someone with whom I could share my spirituality with. I wonder too if divorce might be less common if polygamy was more acceptable in soceity.
But, (I did say I was contrary!) I enjoy being in a manogamous relationship, I enjoy knowing that we try to fulfill each other that we grow together and our love deepens. I suppose in some ways we all have polygamous relationships, the love we develop for friends, the closeness and intimacy that can form without the complication of sex. And at the end of the day that is the form of polygamy I practice if I am to think about it.
Hope that makes sense - its kinda late and I'm still recovering from flu!
I'm really not sure of my stance, so I'll keep typing and see where it takes me.
Sex to me is something very wonderful and it doesn't matter if its in a recreational or more intimate setting, its still a wonderful experience to be enjoyed and celebrated. Part of what draws me to my path is the complete acceptance of sex as natural, no sin whatsoever.
I do consider myself an earthy soul, I find as much pleasure in talking about sex and laughing about it as I do in the actual deed. And yes it does play a part in my path, generally because after a ritual (done alone) I feel relaxed and often horny and so the hubby gets his bone jumped and certain sabbats make me feel more horny than others.
I've just asked my husband what he thinks of polygamy and whether he thinks it could have a place in our relationship and he says no. Far as he's concerned he's made a commitment to me and he doesnt see how it can work without it being hurtful. (yep considering jumping his bones - awww sweet guy.......) anyway, what was I saying? Oh, yeah.
Polygamy, I believe, is a valid lifestyle, and I can see some big merits, of having several partners each fullfilling different areas, for instance, in my case, if polygamy was an option in my marriage, I could see myself becoming involved with another pagan, someone with whom I could share my spirituality with. I wonder too if divorce might be less common if polygamy was more acceptable in soceity.
But, (I did say I was contrary!) I enjoy being in a manogamous relationship, I enjoy knowing that we try to fulfill each other that we grow together and our love deepens. I suppose in some ways we all have polygamous relationships, the love we develop for friends, the closeness and intimacy that can form without the complication of sex. And at the end of the day that is the form of polygamy I practice if I am to think about it.
Hope that makes sense - its kinda late and I'm still recovering from flu!
QUOTE
So please be careful about what you assume about our relationship it might not be for you but that does not make it wrong only different
I dont want anyone thinking that I was making any assumpions about your relationship. I wasnt. I was speaking in a general sense. From my own point of view.
Sex isa wonderful thing, and I Do love more people than just my bf. But I dont see me ever extending that into something physical. I think that this is where I have a problem with Polyamory.
I dont know if I can explain this properly. My relationship with my bf extends beyond something physical, which I suppose is what Niord and Rhi are saying about their relationship. But while sex is a valid and important part of what we have together, if sex became something that we could never have again, I dont believe that it would change what we have. I would rather be in a relationship with someone that I loved and was that "other half" of me regardless. I suppose what Im trying to find out is why there is the need for anyone to extend their friendships into something physical?
Please note.. this is a question, not a judgement.
I don't think that was what was described though, it's not how I read it anyway. As I understood what Rhi posted it's not that she and Niord extend friendships into sex, they love each other completely, they have a strong and powerful bond and what sounds like a relationship with each other many would envy. They've also been lucky enough to meet other people with whom they've fallen in love, maybe not so deeply, maybe in a different way but still love, still in that partner way, rather than a platonic way or a family way. They've been more fortunate still to have a relationship with each other that allows them to pursue this other love without it impinging on what they have together.
Sounds incredible to me, they must have one hell of a love for each other. As pebble said, my own insecurities would rule out any similar avenues for me, among other things but I don't think we're talking about sex really, I think we're talking about love and like paganism, love is different for everyone.
Sounds incredible to me, they must have one hell of a love for each other. As pebble said, my own insecurities would rule out any similar avenues for me, among other things but I don't think we're talking about sex really, I think we're talking about love and like paganism, love is different for everyone.
I suppose what Im trying to find out is why there is the need for anyone to extend their friendships into something physical?
It is a valid question and not easy to answer not all our friendships develop into something physical in fact most of them dont but sometimes with the right people they have and the permission is there to allow that, although we would never do it outside of each other (ie somewhere else) we are always around each other even if we arn't in the same room. BUt our love for one another holds fast and is not in doubt, we do not need others to fulfil our relationship we like others and enjoy what they bring to us as people I have a relaionship with rhiana's lover as she does with mine in its own right and we do all the things buddys do with a large amount of respect for each other and certain boundries that we do not step over
if sex became something that we could never have again, I dont believe that it would change what we have. I would rather be in a relationship with someone that I loved
That is also a good point and is the same for us, but I would not expect Rhiana as a healthy 38 yr old to do without sex forever if I could not make love to her, and by the way we have faced that prospect in our relationship with my illness.
Without sex our relationship would go on as it did before because love is love and for us it is the all important thing, sex is the icing on the cake as it were.
I did not think your post was a judgement Xaille you bring up some good points and I am glad that you are taking it seriously its just a shame we cant discuss this face to face as I am sure it would be an interesting conversation
It is a valid question and not easy to answer not all our friendships develop into something physical in fact most of them dont but sometimes with the right people they have and the permission is there to allow that, although we would never do it outside of each other (ie somewhere else) we are always around each other even if we arn't in the same room. BUt our love for one another holds fast and is not in doubt, we do not need others to fulfil our relationship we like others and enjoy what they bring to us as people I have a relaionship with rhiana's lover as she does with mine in its own right and we do all the things buddys do with a large amount of respect for each other and certain boundries that we do not step over
if sex became something that we could never have again, I dont believe that it would change what we have. I would rather be in a relationship with someone that I loved
That is also a good point and is the same for us, but I would not expect Rhiana as a healthy 38 yr old to do without sex forever if I could not make love to her, and by the way we have faced that prospect in our relationship with my illness.
Without sex our relationship would go on as it did before because love is love and for us it is the all important thing, sex is the icing on the cake as it were.
I did not think your post was a judgement Xaille you bring up some good points and I am glad that you are taking it seriously its just a shame we cant discuss this face to face as I am sure it would be an interesting conversation
Esk thank you! I was trying to think how else to explain my views and you summed it up beautifully - as Niord and yourself have said Xalle love takes many forms and thats a GOOD thing - each to their own and more love would make the world a better place to live in eh! 
Interesting subject this, and something I have faced during my younger days. Only then it was called 'open marriage'. I agree with Esk who stated the attitude elequently. A couple's love would need to be very strong to rule out jealousy and other emotions that can come with sharing love and sex with others.
It's not something that would work for me as it is not in my nature to be that sharing or giving of myself to someone I wasn't really committed to and I don't think I could shake the idea I was cheating, regardless of permission. To me it just doesn't make sense to become involved or committed in a relationship and o.k. to go outside of that committment. Then again, maybe I'm just old fashoned. I just think one is asking for trouble with this, although I have seen it work with friends. People can be unpredictable regarding their emotions.
What happens when a loving friend wants more of you than you are willing to give?
That being said, I have always respected and admired people who are able to have an 'open marriage' and have that much love and trust in each other.
It's not something that would work for me as it is not in my nature to be that sharing or giving of myself to someone I wasn't really committed to and I don't think I could shake the idea I was cheating, regardless of permission. To me it just doesn't make sense to become involved or committed in a relationship and o.k. to go outside of that committment. Then again, maybe I'm just old fashoned. I just think one is asking for trouble with this, although I have seen it work with friends. People can be unpredictable regarding their emotions.
What happens when a loving friend wants more of you than you are willing to give?
That being said, I have always respected and admired people who are able to have an 'open marriage' and have that much love and trust in each other.
Whilst I understand what you say gypsimoon I have to take issue with the terminology "open marriage" to me that means a couple that allow each other to go off and have affairs with other people .. no WAY would I live with that!!
I'd die if Niord was away with someone without me who he had a relationship with that I wasnt part of- NOT the same thing at all .. people perpetually come back to sex with some kinda obsessiveness - it seems that the concept of loving is inescapably linked with bed hopping in peoples minds?
I have some close friends - ONE of those couples is my poly partner - we have a close spiritual relationship first and foremost, we have the same interests, sense of humour and a close bond borne of some years! That did lead to a chemistry that led ultimately from a platonic friendship to a physical one - occasionally!! We rarely see each other due to distance - the friendship is maintained through phone,net and messaging but the bond remains Yes we now have a chemistry that is strong and I am proud to say I love the man!
BUT my life partner, the guy I cannot live without, the one who lives with me and shares the highs and lows of life ; who still turns me on beyond belief, whose tenderness moves me to tears and can have me howling with his humour,talent, proud till I could burst with his commitment to others and sense of justice is Niord ... I am lucky we have the freedom to love others - with it being no threat to US - as has been said perhaps we are exceptional and we do cherish what we have the more we hear that others could not live like this!
Why do we need more? why choose to take a friendship to another level? It wasnt wholly premeditated to be honest - but we ended up there and realised the joy of that kind of relationship!
It isnt a daily thing, the core of our life is as monogamous and every day as anyone else but we also love to a greater extent than people usually do - its NOT on offer to all our friends, most of them arent interested in that and wouldnt want it if offered It has its pitfalls, it has had its pain and grief - BUT we have never aimed to hurt anyone, what we have given has been with trust and given freely - sometimes it didnt work and we learnt that people are plagued by jealousies and thats their choice ... I cant explain any more clearly and I maintain that Esk wrote it far better than I ever could ...just wish me poly partner would come on and post but I aint putting him in that position unless he freely chooses to do so!
I'd die if Niord was away with someone without me who he had a relationship with that I wasnt part of- NOT the same thing at all .. people perpetually come back to sex with some kinda obsessiveness - it seems that the concept of loving is inescapably linked with bed hopping in peoples minds?
I have some close friends - ONE of those couples is my poly partner - we have a close spiritual relationship first and foremost, we have the same interests, sense of humour and a close bond borne of some years! That did lead to a chemistry that led ultimately from a platonic friendship to a physical one - occasionally!! We rarely see each other due to distance - the friendship is maintained through phone,net and messaging but the bond remains
Yes we now have a chemistry that is strong and I am proud to say I love the man!BUT my life partner, the guy I cannot live without, the one who lives with me and shares the highs and lows of life ; who still turns me on beyond belief, whose tenderness moves me to tears and can have me howling with his humour,talent, proud till I could burst with his commitment to others and sense of justice is Niord ... I am lucky we have the freedom to love others - with it being no threat to US - as has been said perhaps we are exceptional and we do cherish what we have the more we hear that others could not live like this!
Why do we need more? why choose to take a friendship to another level? It wasnt wholly premeditated to be honest - but we ended up there and realised the joy of that kind of relationship!
It isnt a daily thing, the core of our life is as monogamous and every day as anyone else but we also love to a greater extent than people usually do - its NOT on offer to all our friends, most of them arent interested in that and wouldnt want it if offered
It has its pitfalls, it has had its pain and grief - BUT we have never aimed to hurt anyone, what we have given has been with trust and given freely - sometimes it didnt work and we learnt that people are plagued by jealousies and thats their choice ... I cant explain any more clearly and I maintain that Esk wrote it far better than I ever could ...just wish me poly partner would come on and post but I aint putting him in that position unless he freely chooses to do so!
QUOTE
I think despite all efforts misconceptions have remained - ie the " swinging couple " image and the sexual aspect has been focussed on rather too much.
Lady.. I dont think that anyone in this current debate has the conception that Niord and Rhi "swing". I think what we are trying to do is reconcile what we know from our own perspectives to get a grasp of what polyamory is.
When you say that we focus on the sexual element, I would agree.. but I think for very good reason. From what I can gather.. understand.. it is the sexual element that defines polyamory.. otherwise.. its just close friendship. Im sure that you can see where Im coming from when I say that. Rhi herself states that was Niord to be off having sexual relations with someone that she herself was not involved with in some aspect... ie had developed a freidnship with herself... that she would not be happy with it. What makes this different from polyamory.. from what I can see it is the friendship aspect being extended out into a sexual side.
I have an extremely close friendship with another guy.. who my bf is also very close with is that a polyamorus relationship? No.. its not.. and why isnt it.. because there is no sex involved.
What people here who have not come across polyamory are trying to grasp is the concept of it within the boundaries of what we know.. I dont think that its fair to write us off because we are grappling with something completely alien to us.
QUOTE
its just a shame we cant discuss this face to face as I am sure it would be an interesting conversation
I couldnt agree more Niord! It is a conversation I would love to have with you.
A nice warm fire and a drink and intellegent conversation of people with respect for one another who could ask for more.
Agreed!In fact why dont you ALL come over and see us for a chat Would be lovely .. and there hasnt been a person yet who once they have met us hasnt grasped what we mean -I can say that in all honesty! and ditto Lady - might have to drag my poly partner into this forum ere long
like to add there aint just Niord and I with this lifestyle - do a new search..many people are poly they just dont admit it for fear of misconceptions!!
Would be lovely .. and there hasnt been a person yet who once they have met us hasnt grasped what we mean -I can say that in all honesty! and ditto Lady - might have to drag my poly partner into this forum ere long like to add there aint just Niord and I with this lifestyle - do a new search..many people are poly they just dont admit it for fear of misconceptions!!
Err why cant people just get on with each other and accept others views ?, is that to much to ask from society ?
...and on a lighter note, imagine the local Blackpool newspaper if it got the story "Pagan love triangle", "Witches participating in lurid pagan sexual activities in blackpool subrbs....neighbours described.......local xtians protest......"
sorry couldnt resist
...and on a lighter note, imagine the local Blackpool newspaper if it got the story "Pagan love triangle", "Witches participating in lurid pagan sexual activities in blackpool subrbs....neighbours described.......local xtians protest......"
sorry couldnt resist
http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html
For more reading use this link and scroll down!!
Mystic Cat aint much shocks people in Blackpool believe me
For more reading use this link and scroll down!!
Mystic Cat
aint much shocks people in Blackpool believe me
Rhi, I fully understand what you mean and your relationship with Niord, the love and trust between you two is rare indeed, IMHO. "Open Marriage" is a '70's term to discribe allowing others into your life, whether that implies a deep closeness and/or sex. Although many saw it as a way to have their cake and eat it too at that time. It basically meant that the couple each have permission to do so from each other. Some prefer not to know the details, others share everything. It wasn't meant to be a criticism.
I also have nothing against Polyamory. It just not something that I would be comfortable with because I've never had the trust and love that you and Niord have and it would be difficult for me to trust someone that much, at least for me.
I have close friends, both male a female and we constantly are hugging and kissing each other. We go to dinners or to each others homes for get togethers, and often tell each other we love each other,so I can understand having the love you are speaking about with friends.
I also have nothing against Polyamory. It just not something that I would be comfortable with because I've never had the trust and love that you and Niord have and it would be difficult for me to trust someone that much, at least for me.
I have close friends, both male a female and we constantly are hugging and kissing each other. We go to dinners or to each others homes for get togethers, and often tell each other we love each other,so I can understand having the love you are speaking about with friends.
You know I've been thinking about this, and I do think there is a difference between polywhatitscalled and close friendship, particularly if the friendship is with someone of the opposite sex.
What I mean is, if I developed a close friendship with another man, and there was that sexual chemistry there, I would feel a need to distance myself simply because I know my marriage wouldn't last if I were so involved with a guy, regardless of whether sex happened or not. Part of me feels sad that might be the case, but I think that is prehaps the fundamental difference, do those of us who don't feel we can have polywhatitscalled relationships distance ourselves and avoid the close connectedness because it would seem dishonest.
In Niord and Rhi context they have a beautiful relationship that allows them to do that while still being totally committed to each other.
At the same time I don't believe they have a relationship that is any stronger or better than mine, its just different. I don't know, that's not quite what I mean, I guess there is the preception that Niord (or maybe its just my preception) have a more honest and trusting relationship. But I'm not sure if it really comes down to that, I think its more about attitude. I trust my husband implicitly and he trusts me. I don't feel there isn't anything I can't talk to him about and he feels the same. So we aren't polywhatmiscalled because there's a lack of trust or honesty in our relationship.
I'm curious Rhi and Niord, do you guys ever feel jealous about other relationships... I wonder because its the jealousy aspect that many have cited as the reason why it couldn't work for them. Which then means one has to examine what jealousy is, and what we're jealous of.
Thinking of it myself, I think if my husband did have a very close relationship with another woman I would feel jealous, even if I knew the relationship wasn't a danger to ours. You know, I knew him loving another woman wouldn't mean the end of us. But I would wonder what was so special about her that he needed her in his life, and why I couldn't fulfil that need. Maybe, knowing the woman would elevate that feeling, and maybe that is the difference, that you guys share your loves and know each other.
And perhaps polywhatitscalled isnt' a part of my relationship simply because I like having my husband all to myself, and the same with him... maybe we're just too selfish to share?
What I mean is, if I developed a close friendship with another man, and there was that sexual chemistry there, I would feel a need to distance myself simply because I know my marriage wouldn't last if I were so involved with a guy, regardless of whether sex happened or not. Part of me feels sad that might be the case, but I think that is prehaps the fundamental difference, do those of us who don't feel we can have polywhatitscalled relationships distance ourselves and avoid the close connectedness because it would seem dishonest.
In Niord and Rhi context they have a beautiful relationship that allows them to do that while still being totally committed to each other.
At the same time I don't believe they have a relationship that is any stronger or better than mine, its just different. I don't know, that's not quite what I mean, I guess there is the preception that Niord (or maybe its just my preception) have a more honest and trusting relationship. But I'm not sure if it really comes down to that, I think its more about attitude. I trust my husband implicitly and he trusts me. I don't feel there isn't anything I can't talk to him about and he feels the same. So we aren't polywhatmiscalled because there's a lack of trust or honesty in our relationship.
I'm curious Rhi and Niord, do you guys ever feel jealous about other relationships... I wonder because its the jealousy aspect that many have cited as the reason why it couldn't work for them. Which then means one has to examine what jealousy is, and what we're jealous of.
Thinking of it myself, I think if my husband did have a very close relationship with another woman I would feel jealous, even if I knew the relationship wasn't a danger to ours. You know, I knew him loving another woman wouldn't mean the end of us. But I would wonder what was so special about her that he needed her in his life, and why I couldn't fulfil that need. Maybe, knowing the woman would elevate that feeling, and maybe that is the difference, that you guys share your loves and know each other.
And perhaps polywhatitscalled isnt' a part of my relationship simply because I like having my husband all to myself, and the same with him... maybe we're just too selfish to share?
Jealousy!! A tricky one that .. of course everyone gets jealous once in a while - we are both only human - as are the other people involved! There are rules in polyamory and the paramount one is that ALL involved feel valued, loved and happy with what is happening. The key as I have said before is communication! Niord and I have an absolute rule and thats if one of us feels unhappy about any physical stuff then thats it - it is not pursued full stop - same goes for our poly partners.
For myself I cant say that I have felt overly jealous at any point - I know Niord has had more on that level and he perhaps will share in his own time. I dont think for us that we countenance that our relationship would rock and thats not complacency as much as trust and a sense of honour with each other.
For myself I cant say that I have felt overly jealous at any point - I know Niord has had more on that level and he perhaps will share in his own time. I dont think for us that we countenance that our relationship would rock and thats not complacency as much as trust and a sense of honour with each other.
I found that even within so-called alternative communities that there are people who do not respond well to any of this. That if you are a little bit too "alternative" or too "different" that people will believe or say anything about you.
What gets my goat is people who think that its okay to cheat on people(either by sleeping with someone else's partner or going behind their partner's back) yet think polyamoury is extremely wrong, something to mock. Society is more accepting of cheating then treating people with care, honour, respect. Another that pisses me off is people who use polyamoury to stuff there partner around or as an excuse for bad behaviour.
Add paganism to the mix. And things can get even messier.
A lot of people cannot separate sexuality from the rest of a person's behaviour. Basically if you are capable of one thing you are capable of anything. Or if you do one thing, the rest of that perceived behaviour goes with it. Uni students, particularly the first years, can be some of the most narrow minded people or the most easily disturbed, they are in a transition time.
As for paganism and sexual behaviour a lot of people believe what they are spoonfed by the media and doesn't ritualistic sex make "good" press? It will have people talking and condemning it for days and it feeds the stereotype.
However because a lot of pagans are not so willing to accept the media image or other sources, but will question the status quo and think for themselves (like most of the alternative communities) and generally they are more accepting of different lifestyle choices. And also because pagans have a lot less hangups about sex and are also more willing to live and let live.
Also what doesn't help the view of polyamoury is the people who like to be in your face and disturb people for the sake of it , you know the sort, the one that like to "freak the mundanes". That doesn't help people form a good opinion.
I would say that paganism has very little to do with my sexual choices, its the way I'm wired but with everything with how I live those choices. I live my path with care, respect and honour towards others. My beliefs have changed how I interact with the world. And there will always be people who will not understand this.
What gets my goat is people who think that its okay to cheat on people(either by sleeping with someone else's partner or going behind their partner's back) yet think polyamoury is extremely wrong, something to mock. Society is more accepting of cheating then treating people with care, honour, respect. Another that pisses me off is people who use polyamoury to stuff there partner around or as an excuse for bad behaviour.
Add paganism to the mix. And things can get even messier.
A lot of people cannot separate sexuality from the rest of a person's behaviour. Basically if you are capable of one thing you are capable of anything. Or if you do one thing, the rest of that perceived behaviour goes with it. Uni students, particularly the first years, can be some of the most narrow minded people or the most easily disturbed, they are in a transition time.
As for paganism and sexual behaviour a lot of people believe what they are spoonfed by the media and doesn't ritualistic sex make "good" press? It will have people talking and condemning it for days and it feeds the stereotype.
However because a lot of pagans are not so willing to accept the media image or other sources, but will question the status quo and think for themselves (like most of the alternative communities) and generally they are more accepting of different lifestyle choices. And also because pagans have a lot less hangups about sex and are also more willing to live and let live.
Also what doesn't help the view of polyamoury is the people who like to be in your face and disturb people for the sake of it , you know the sort, the one that like to "freak the mundanes". That doesn't help people form a good opinion.
I would say that paganism has very little to do with my sexual choices, its the way I'm wired but with everything with how I live those choices. I live my path with care, respect and honour towards others. My beliefs have changed how I interact with the world. And there will always be people who will not understand this.
Thank you!!
"Alot of people cannot seperate sexuality from the rest of a person's behaviour. Basically if you are capable of one thing you are capable of anything. Or if you do one thing, the rest of that percieved behaviour goes with it."
I SO agree! Its that bit that drives me utterly NUTS!
I am playful,open and occasionally like to make people think outside the box - to some that means I am a predatory female with designs on peoples partners 
Couldnt be further from the truth!!!
Sorry wee rant there you struck a chord Koid Gath - ta for the input!
"Alot of people cannot seperate sexuality from the rest of a person's behaviour. Basically if you are capable of one thing you are capable of anything. Or if you do one thing, the rest of that percieved behaviour goes with it."
I SO agree! Its that bit that drives me utterly NUTS!
I am playful,open and occasionally like to make people think outside the box - to some that means I am a predatory female with designs on peoples partners Couldnt be further from the truth!!!Sorry wee rant there you struck a chord Koid Gath - ta for the input!
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