Having a bit of a think about symbols. They're everywhere but so many of them have had their meaning changed and messed about with do they really have any purpose?

I'm thinking of sunwheels, which I think are a heathen symbol and how a heathen friend was talking some months ago about how he wished he could wear it but when he did people recognised it as a swastica and called him a nazi.
I'm thinking of yin yang and how that's degenerated into a pretty pattern to put on a Tshirt or earrings, most people know vaugely what it means but how many people who wear it are making a statement about what it stands for and how many just think it looks kinda cool?
I'm thinking of moon and crescent moon symbols and goddess symbols and Eyes of Ra. Again, is the amount of people wearing or using those symbols without understanding diluting the effect of the symbols?

The idea of a symbol I think is to represent an idea, when people see it, it should mean something to them. I don't know how many people really know what these symbols mean. I also wonder about the other end of the scale, when symbols are taken to extreme lengths and more importance is given to the material the symbol is crafted in, the way it should be drawn, which way is the correct way up.....


Maybe it doesn't matter, maybe it's all about what the symbol means to the person using it and it's not important what others make of it. What do you think?


eeek, looking this over I should point out this was not an exercise in how many times I could use the word 'symbol' in a post!

Good question hon.

I had to sit and think about this for a bit. And my answer is gonna be pretty brief. I think symbols are tools.. a lot like any other tool we use. A way to tap into the power that it symbolises. So, if you want to use it as a pretty picture/decoration, I dont think thats a problem, because its only when you focus on what the intent behind it is and use it in conjunction with whatever power you have within does the object/symbol become anything other than just a design.

*nods* @ xalle,

Symbols are empowered as we create them, if it were as simple and as fluant as our own hand writing then they would be pretty much meaningless.
However...many symbols have been used by magik users over the centuries, as each person use and empower them, so they take on a magikal life of their own for future generations to use.
Thats afor you take into account the sacred ones

Rain

I see symbols, signs.... everywhere.... What I have found is when we get the feeling of sychronicity when we come across a symbol, thats when it really has meaning, has power...coming from our subconscious perhaps, but it means something directly meaningful to the individual... our sychronicities are our 'psychic' clues as to what we as individuals should be 'immediately' focussing on... my experiences in researching crop circles have been full of sychronicities...studying the symbols...knowing that they come from 'somewhere' else... thinking about just what do they mean and why? Cheers

For me symbols are very important, but often its a personal meaning that resonates rather than a historical one.

True, I like to know what they mean, but if this meaning doesn't have a 'meaning' to me then it doesn't matter what the meaning really. the meaning has no meaning to me.

If you get my meaning

Kev-not trying to out do esk's use of 'symbol' in a post, honest

off topic.
i saw your name CK and said to myself, i bet he cant answer a post without saying crop circle at least once.


symbols we all create them, they have meaning to us and others, i draw pictures, they come from my mind and hopefully people bring their own meaning to them and pass that on to others.

Hi Stormy... I would like to disagree with you if I may.... the CCs are everything to do with symbols... geometric shapes perhaps, but nevertheless they are symbols... and being a topic dedicated to the subject of symbols, I think they speak for themselves, dont you agree?

Thankyou Rain, for opening this thread!

I agree with Cosmic...

But also as an artist, I like to use my drawings to tell a story, to get the viewer to see/feel something when looking at my work. Thats symbolism too..

As one who has many different symbols about me I did bother to find out the meaning of each before it became part of myself. Each one is only there due to special significance it has within the context of my own life. I would imagine many see them and think they are just something I found pretty, but that's not it. It is my marking mine own path through this time. I do see much indescriminate use of symbols however.
Oh well, it's like the boy/man who just had to have this one tattoo - turn's out he's now wearing a Maori moko: women's that is! I love it everytime I see him - wish it was possible to mark all idiots... save the nerves of the rest of us!

LMAO at Stormy- you said exactly what i was thinking!

I think the meaning of symbols can be read on two levels (if that doesn't sound too pretentious, of course) Firstly there is the meaning or lack thereof that the individual assigns to them. So a wiccan will assign a certain meaning to a pentagram, whereas a fan of black metal will assign something completely different. Then there is the meaning that is prevalent within society in general. For example, the pentagram as a symbol of evil, twisted satanic practices.

I think both types of meaning are important, but how important depends on the symbol. After all, personal opinion in some cases is a good thing, but you wouldn't live very long if you assigned the meaning 'go fast' to a stop sign!

I don't really think that symbols can get diluted by being used for different purposes. the idea behind them is still there, even if they have no power for the person wearing or using them.

Oh you're welcome, but my name isn't Rain thanks so very much. Given that this thread is about the use of symbols, general understanding of them and hijacking them for other causes and whether this diminishes the effectiveness of them, maybe you'd like to try for a reply that doesn't mention Crop Circles at all CK. hmmm? I mean, I'm a big fan of Terry Pratchett and I could easily quote him in every one of my posts whatever the subject matter, but I don't because I'm a 3 dimentional human being with more than one interest, you know?

dont ya blame me.... *grins*.

Rain

As an artist I find symbolism fascinating, I tend to think of it as an early percursor of the written word. I find it fascinating to watch how people respond to symbols too and how they have changed through history. Symbols for me anyway, speak to the spirit, know what I mean, you might not know why a particular symbol effects you the way it does, but still it can be a profound experience.

Ok, I'm too tired to properly express what I'm trying to say! lol
I'll say goodnight now......

I know what you mean Esk about how symbols hold meanings for some, yet seem to hold none at all for others.

Once, when selling jewellery, a man noticed a small pentagram I happened to be wearing. He said, "Oh a star of David......I've been looking for one of them for ages....do you sell them?". I then said, "actually its a pentagram......it only has five points, and I'm sorry I don't sell them". He then said, "yes I've always wanted a star of David like that". I then asked him if he was jewish, to which he looked utterly confused and said "no.....why".

I smiled weakly.

I does not really bother me if people understand the symbols they are wearing or not.....all I know is that if I wear a symbol I like to be damned sure I know what it is I am saying!

mike

Errr Esk, I was talking to Rain, and I thanked her, I dont believe I was referring to you when I said "Thankyou Rain, for opening this thread!"

What are you saying? What exactly am I hi-jacking? I believe I have a valuable contribution to make to this thread. I have many, many interests... you seem opposed to me for reasons I can only assume that you dont like crop circles. Fair enough! But I am pleased to see I seem to have made an immediate impression upon you!

Celtic, read the posts before you reply! I'm Esk, I started the thread, I posted that message, I am talking about symbols being hijacked for other purposes not you hijacking anything! I would love you to make a valuable contribution to this thread but as it doesn't concern crop circles and you have somewhere to talk about them already I'm asking you to make that contribution without further reference to them if you can. Did you get that?

OK Esk I see my mistake. So it was YOU who opened this thread. Thankyou ESK, for opening this thread! My apologies for this mistake.

Ooh, symbols One of my favourites.

I've always seen the reading of symbols as being similar to the reading of costume. I'm gonna go a little off topic here, but this is the best way I can explain how I see it.

There are two types of clothing - costume and fashion. Fashion is cnstantly changing and has little meaning as a language due to its ever changing nature. All you can gleen from someone wearing fashionable clothes is that they have money, are at least influenced by Western society, and are interested in keeping up with the fashions.

Costume, on the otherhand, is reasonably static and there are many meanings within the costume. Costume is things like national dress, ceremoial dress, tribal tattoos, military uniform etc. The chevrons on the arm of someone in the army only have meaning if you are aware of the 'dictionary' that someone within that culture would know.

There are tribes where the location of the tattoo is just as important as the desing; where the hair style denotes your rank; where how many children you have is incorporated into a pattern of raised scars. These are all things that only those within the group can be aware of, and very few outsiders are privy to that information.

As I said, this is how I see symbols. The spiral, the star, suns and moons, all are symbols which are found in many belief systems and generally have the same meanings. Usually, the sun means life - it's necessary for crops to grow and for warmth. But it can also destroy if there's no rain or breeze. The spiral is one of the most pleasing shapes, and is one that occurs the most in nature - the fibonacci spiral being the case in point. It's natural that those who walked this earth before us would have noticed this an used it in their art work. But we have no way of knowing exactly what they saw in these symbols. All we know is how we see the now.

We can pretty much say for certain though, that depending on where a culture was in the world would change the meaning of these symbols for them. Someone living near the equator would have a different perception of the sun to someone living nearer the North Pole. Rain would be seen differently by someone in the rainforest compared with someone in the desert.

It's not just symbols which are global, there are legends as well. Dragons and a great flood are the two which stick out in my memory. And again, these legends were seen differently depending on where on the planet the culture was based.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we cnanot be certain wherethese symbols came from, why they were used, orwhat they meant. Symbols like the swastika which have a recorded history can be traced and the change of meaning can be lamented. But to me, that's simply the changing of a visual language.

Look at the way the English language has changed. Who uses 'gay' to mean joyous and fun anymore? It's a word which has been appropriated for a different meaning, and will probably never be used for it's original purpose. My personal favourite is 'peculiar'. We use it now to mean odd, strange, not normal. But it used to be another word for indigenous - if something is 'peculiar to an area' it's normal in that place.

The best we can do is be aware that simply because we are told that this symbol has 'always' meant A, doesn't mean that it never meant B. Ancient symbol, yes, but not always an ancient meaning. This is where we study and come to our own conclusions. If an image speaks to you, then it has a meaning to you, but it might mean nothing to anyone else.

Think I rambled a bit there, but hope it made sense