What is a "witch", truly, and how would the average person (like me) go about becoming one and being one?
Please feel free to add your two cents. The more feedback from real witches, the better.

Interesting question.

I guess it depends on what you believe in and how you live your life.

For someone who follows the Wiccan path I guess If you can abide by the Rede then you could consider yourself a "REAL" witch.

I think the question should be do you consider yourself to be a real witch,? and if not why not? What do you think you're lacking?

NEVER SAY YOU'RE AVERAGE!!!!!! You're unique, you're special, you're different, you are NOT average..

"average" should go on that list of words that people don't like in the other thread running at the mo.

TD.x.

Sorry, I'm not a witch and I don't know, but it's a very interesting question. Also, how do you know you want to be a witch if you don't know what it is you want to be? Do you just slide into it by virtue of meeting the right people?

I used to want to be a witch, but my path has taken me all over the place and I haven't yet met any witches who were really keen to tell me about it, and now I'm more interested in shamanic practices, which are about self healing really, rather than spell making.

But I don't see it as something distinct from witchcraft. Unless someone can tell me how it is.

Well I'm not a witch either though I have been called such. In my case I feel that I am not worthy of the title. May be in the future I might be.

As to how you become a witch, there are three ways I can think of.

1) Take up the Wiccan path, preferably a known tradition to which you can work up through the grades and be properly initiated.

Now I know that many here will maintain that it is fully posible to be a wiccan and not join a known tradition or coven, but if you do then there is no way people can deny you the right to use the title (unless of course your tradition uses something different)

2) Work with a trad witch, or at least do the study, research, study, practice, study, research, reading, research and study on your own to build up the knowledge and experience that might then let other's regard you as entitled to the title. Did I mention it takes study??

3) put on a dressing gown, prance around in front of the media making strange claims and 'mystik' passes.

You won't really be a witch but the media might think you are.

Kev

You could do that... Option 1 is how to be a Wiccan. Option 2 is how to be a Trad Witch. Option 3 is how to be a pillock.

I didn't take any of those routes, I'm a witch though. I'm my kind of witch and it feels real enough to me. Find out what being a witch means to you. Then see if you care what others think you are. I reckon you'll be on your way then.

I'm a witch, but at the end of the day I'm me. It's something I've always identified with, been drawn to, and as I get older the more important it becomes to, especially as I learn more about me Very, as a Witch.

hello I'm a Witch, not totally Wiccan , but with Celtic leanings.
I found my own way from the realisation that Paganism was a belief and not a Xtian putdown, through studying what Paganism is, no I'm not an authority on the subject! That evolved into Wicca which for me isn't necessarily right, but not mocked as wrong either, but it led to Witchcraft in which I am totally absorbed.My path is animal healing. I do hold Rituals rather than cast Spells, as that lets me welcome the Deities. I'm also an environmentalist, I don't hug trees, I'm not of the fluffy bunny ilk. Witchcraft means far too much to me to allow sentiment and Hollywood er um B******t. I've made some really good friends of a like mind, and find it totally absorbing and fulfilling.
I do try to honour the Witches Rede, but alas from time to time you meet people whose heads really need flushing away!
Bright Blessings, i assume you are Pagan?

how to be a proper witch.oh i know this one.
its a pointy hat and a broomstick isnt it?.

In agreement with what Esk mentioned...I would just like to add that not all witches are wiccan, and not all wiccans are witches...

I am a wiccan, not a witch, but a wiccan. I follow a specific tradition into which I have been initiated, and have become a member of clergy, ie. I am a Priestess. Wiccans follow a specific set of rules/tenets which identify us as wiccans.

This cannot be said for witches. Witchcraft is a lifestyle, a way of living, being at one with the forces of nature and using these in magic etc. Wiccans do this too, but witches do not follow any rules. They are not governed by any traditions, laws etc. Wicca is a religion, witchcraft is not...

Err, broadly speaking. Truer to say we do follow rules but those rules vary from witch to witch. We make our own. Some follow a tradition some don't. Some have a religion, some don't. It's an individual thing, rather than a organised group thing.

Thing is Silvergirl, there's a saying which basicly says 'Ask 3 witches what a witch is, get 5 answers'

Well I agree with the first part of your statement but disagree with the last paragraph. Maybe this wasn't your intention but don't we have enough Wiccan snobbery around ? No offence to the Wiccans that do frequent these boards and have respect for others paths by the way, but you know it does exist. Just because something doesn't follow a set of predetermined rules with a hierarchy and status does not make it inferior or less valid a path. Also I would say it was untrue to say witches do not follow any rules. They may not be your rules, and there may be variations, but being a witch rather than a Wiccan is not total formless anarchy as you seem to imply.

I have to say I didn't read Ameniatha's comments as suggesting that Wicca is more important or valid than Witchcraft. I'm sure she didn't mean that.

Well - hopefully not Very and I did say " maybe these aren't your intentions ". But I do get fed up with the attitude I previously described and makes me sad to see some people worry and get all hung up on finite definitions.

I would say in my own completely subjective opinion that thought, study, practise, truthfulness, learning, respect, lack of arrogance, learning and a sense of responsibility make a " proper witch " and not whether you use a pointy wooden stick with skybluepink spots on facing east every second Monday of the month whilst singing Baa Baa Black Sheep and standing on one leg.

No, but apparently you will have some magical ability by the end of the week.

seeing as we cant get away from labels i'd have a look at the hedgewitch, a solitary witch with her own high degree of ethics and responsibilities , studying hard reading lots (herbcraft) and basically finding your own path that suits you.
Wicca is very different also a lot of hard work first you need to find a coven then from there on study mainly as part of a group.

And it's also worth mentioning that Witchcraft isn't an easy option either, what with it all being up to you.

Hillarious, Esk!!

But seriously, what do you think a witch should be? How do you imagine one to look, act, live? After reading about paganism for a while, sit down and answer those questions and you will know.

I have to say that even after practicing paganism and witchcraft for nigh on a decade I still get moments when I ask myself this question.

Well it works for KFC

But seriously, if you don't want to be any type of wiccan then to be a witch requires you to work hard at learning everything that you consider to be a part of witchcraft. It is very hard work, as has been noted above, and its something you never quite finish.

One point to make is that there is no set look for a witch and no set qualification. You can look just the same as anyone else in the street and still be a witch.

In many ways being a witch is more about what you don't do than what you can do. Having the confidence to observe and decide to act only when and if you feel that it is right is much more 'witchy' than having a pointed hat and a complete collection of crystals.

Kev

Surely to be a Witch you have to become fairly competent in Witchcraft.

Thankyou very for jumping to my defence...

LadyCC, it was not my intention to sound snooty at all, I am very much aware that Witchcraft is a valid path to follow. I was not implying that the rules they follow are anarchistic.... I was merely pointing out that there is a difference between a Wiccan who follows a set tradition, and a witch...

If I insulted anyone, please accept my apologies..

Edited to correct a gross spelling mistake....

Im right with you there!

Ah but some witches don't call themselves that Even Trad witches just use the word witch as it is an easily (or easier) definable and understandable label. That's all it is really. Just another word for something people do and something people are.

i would say that whatever interpretation you give the word "witch" you should probably expect to put in quite a bit of hard work and dedication.

Thanks for all the replies.
"Pagan" is the only name I give myself right now. I know I'll have to do a lot of meditating/thinking/studying/practicing to get any further ahead.

Here here Moonflower!
I know a lot of witches feel that the title need's to be 'conferred' as such - not necessarily through exam or ceremony, but more a 'takes one to know one' kind of idea. It takes natural skill and training, but can you get that training with self study? I suppose it's like all things, you can gain a certain amount of competence by yourself, but at some point you'll probably need someone else more experienced to push you in the right direction.

which is the beauty of this place as there are all kinds of witches here from newbies to life long - if anyone needs help/advice the forums are a fab place and it can be taken to pm for more in depth private discussion

To me, being a witch is like being an artist - there's lots of different artists (modern art, pre-renaissance art, sculptural art, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...), some complain that some others 'aren't real artists', others maintain that 'everyone's an artist...', even more just get on with it and ignore the arguments...



My personal view is that witches are born, not made. BUT (before people start shouting, lol ), I'd also say that only a witch could be *seriously* attracted to witchcraft. Sure, you'll get your media tarts (Kevin!), your crackpots, perverts and "fluffies"... but how many of them ACTUALLY TAKE IT "SERIOUSLY"? Rather than just viewing witchcraft as a way of meeting hot boyz/girlz, getting attention, sex, money or success?

...

So, if we just assume that you already are a witch (artist!) - you might not be very good at it right now (or you might be)... but there's always room for improvement, learning new techniques, etc... you'll always have blind spots, that you don't know much about - even areas where you have absolutely no talent, and no chance of improvement(think Rincewind!)... but that doesn't make you any less a witch. Just as my mum's inability to draw clothes on people doesn't make her any less an artist

xF,

...Nick

Or in some cases 'ask one witch what a witch is an d get five answers'

I'm a witch. I'm a Pagan. I respect the earth, believe in the gods, try to be a good person, and give life a bit of a nudge with magic when needed. The most important thing is that I know who and what I am, and it's something that you are not something you become. Everyone has it in them, but not everyone uses it.

lovely way of putting it fuzi, totally agree with all of that.
cheers.
xx

I've been being good boy and watching this one run, as I didn't want to be mobbed by irate wiccans ...joke...

My understanding.....very simple....very basic....:

To have a connection with and understanding of our natural surroundings.
To recognise and honour the extraordinary; the energies, the spirit, the deities in whatever forms we recognise them.
To have a line of communication open to them and to have some ability to use that connection and communication with them and our environment in what most people would consider to be an extraordinary way but that to us/me feels perfectly natural and normal.

Wiccans hit me now if you feel the need.

Well I'm not wiccan, but can I hit you anyway? Just for the fun of it?

Of course you can, but do it gently please.

To me a Witch is a worker of magic. Simple as that. A Witch works with natural powers and energies.

There are no ethics that go with Witchcraft. Ethics or a sense of morality depends on the individual.

A Witch does not work with Gods as they believe that natural powers are predictable, not reliant on the will, moods and tempers of Gods and Goddesses.

I have never understood how Wiccans can also be Witches as they use spells and rituals to appeal to their Goddess or God to acheive their aims. A Witch cuts out the middle man and works directly with nature. This seems to me to be a fundemental difference in how they view the world.

mike

mike

Can I tentatively offer a possible partial explanation...... Maybe that depends upon how we view "the gods". Whilst I personally see certain deities as individuals with individual personalities, at the same time I tend to think of them very much as expressions of nature. I think that's why there is such a huge diversity in individual interpretations and recognitions of "the gods".

It's no more difficult for me personally to percieve the natural forces around me as having "personality" and "mood"...Mountain Storm and Wind, Summer Breeze and hot humid woodlands, etc. than it is difficult to percieve the gods as having personality and mood in a similar way.

For me; I can't really separate the two concepts convincingly enough to let go of the idea.

I see witchcraft as working with the natural forces that surround us and therefor as equally working with the gods to some extent.

I don't think that "the gods" and "natural forces" including that illusive energy that some see as "magic" via various explanations that we have recently discussed with interesting diversity of idea's, are in any way mutually exclusive in fact quite the reverse.

Agrees with Dave. I tend to see myself as a Witch in some ways. Although I don't 'worship' the God and Goddess I do respect and honor them as they were seen to the ancient cultures. I love nature and animals and have respect for them as well and I try to work with the energies both seen and unseen.

In times of difficulty, I seem to notice things that are helpful, whether it's an article, a plot in a movie, a dream or something in nature that I focus in on, a syncranacity of sorts that sparks some mental energy. An example of this is that I was worried about finances and how I can continue to afford my apt. with the death of Mom as she helped with the rent. I figured it out and it will be tight, but a few days of worrying, then suddenly I applied for a freelance writing job and got it, so extra money is coming in now. This isn't just coincidence because this sort of thing happens all the time, especially if I'm focusing in on a problem.

I also tend to 'feel' if I'm in danger or if I've made a mistake with something. It just tends to 'noodle' my brain until I go back and do something about it. I've learned over the years to use this more and more and to pay attention to my instincts as they are almost always right. That in itself took a long time for me to come to terms with as I have something of a scientific mind and it was difficult for me to learn to use other forms of learning.

I see what you mean here, and I certainly haven't really thought it through myself. I can understand the notion of ascribing properties to certain natural forces. To describe them as having personalities, though, seems to me to deify them in some way or at least be along the path of deification. Natural laws are natural laws and do not change. Properties in nature which are the result of "personalities" would seem to me to be changeable as they are at the whim of capricious deities. This seems to be a fundemental difference in outlook between those Pagans with a sense of deity, and those, like Witches who work magic, but have no Gods or Goddesses.

Not beating a drum here, its just a sticking point that I have been pondering a while and can't quite figure out myself yet.

mike

No banging of drums here either...been there...done that....got the T Shirt....and the bruises.... This is just the way that I see it:I really don't have a problem with that idea, in fact, for me, it is exactly those natural forces that I deify. I can't separate those natural forces at all from "the gods"....the deities.

For me; the natural forces are the "the deities" and the the deities are "the natural forces" including the elusive force that we describe as magic and that I see as no more than an extension of, and generally unrecognised part of those forces.Of course they are but are still subject to an infinite variety of expression..."mood"..."personality".

I am the same person no matter what mood I might be in on any particular day or at an any particular time, whether that be argumentative, obnoxious, opinionated or just generally pissed off for whatever reason ...for my money in exactly the same way that 200,000 people died a month ago around the Indian Ocean at the capricious whim of the the earths natural forces. I don't really see that all "magic working " witches do so without a recognition of deities and their possible effects upon the craft. I also see that many "magic working" witches do so with intentful knowledge of the effects that deities might have upon their craft. (Edit...11.40 02.02.05: Please note..I intentionally use the word "recognition" rather than "petition".)

I really don't think, personally, that the possibly distinct idea's of Deities, Natural Forces and Magic can be in any way separated from each other, either within "witchcraft" or Paganism generally.

My spirituality is very much earth based and to attempt to separate them just doesn't work at all for me. I just can't do it.

Mmmm, I have to say, that while I certainly don't worship any diety, I do acknowledge the Lord and Lady, and I even sometimes spend time meditating on them etc, howver, I am a witch, and yes I believe I can work and do work with the natural forces directly, that I don't need to petition some god or goddess... but sometimes, I think it can give you a little added boost.

And besides, I refuse to be bound by what is considered "A Witch" I will study, work, and appeal to whomever or whatever I please. A Witch, any pagan, for that matter, is continually growing and learning, and will adapt and use those practises that appeal and work.

I really don't care whether other people see me as a Witch or not, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm me.

OK been reading this thread with some interest and I will be chaging my profile after this post.

When I first joined UKP I classed myself as Wiccan. Over time (which I know isin't that long but lots of things have happened in my life) I realised I wasn't Wmeant for the Wiccan following.

So I guess now I would class myself my as a eclectic(sp?) than anything else. I am who I am and what I am. I believe in nature and try to be as close as possible to it. I try and be a good a person as possible but now when someone hurts me or mine with intention I'm not scared to make sure they get what they deserve. Yes could be seen as a bad side but I don't do that unless I'm really pushed.

That was one of the real major things that showed me that the Wiccan path is not for me.

I am a Wicth but like others have said I live by my rules so to speak. I repeact nature and be good person as said before. Sometimes magic is used but more often than not I let things happen as they do.

I've only managed to skim read what Dave and Mike have said, so if I've missed something, shoot me

There are laws of nature where we know that situation X will lead to reaction Y, most of the time. This is nice and logical, and makes sense. But the same is true of people. I know that if I'm in this situation, or that, then I'll probably react in a certain way. I wouldn't say that there's any real personification going on by finding the gods and nature totally linked, just a logical progression. But then, I believe in the god of the washing machine and the god of the traffic lights, so it may be that I'm talking nonsense.

If that made no sense, sorry, but I've still got a rotten cold, so be nice.

Ah now Fuzi, would that cold be the result of pure natural process, or the will of a deity. Surely there is a fundemental difference as if it is the work of a deity, it is a consious decision that has been made to give you a cold. If the work of nature alone then it is purely random.

Haven't really sussed this out yet, but I feel there is a fundemental difference in world view in there somewhere!

Hope your cold improves (whether by natural process, or by the will of the Gods)

mike

I'm blaming my boss for the cold, as she insists on having the window open and the fans on to cool her hot flushes.

I'm totally open to the idea that the gods are totally random rather than making conscious decisions, maybe it's more reflex than thought?

dont know if anyone really values my opinion, think im coming across as annoying, but any way, I have a little short saying that is say to myself ... i found it on here actualy but made it personal to me....

my belief is pagan
my understanding is eclectic
my practice is witchcraft
my way is the power
my life is magick
i am a worlok/wizard/magician

(the reason why i chose the turm warlok for male witch is because, it feels right i guess and when i first started working with energy and magick a friend, whos family were heavily involved in spiritualism, magick and the ocult called me a warlok i guess it just keept pocking me till i accepted it.)

i guess what im trying to say is that its always a personal thing, if ur inner self is screeming witch then embrace it.

Mike, what words would you use to describe someone, like me (though I'm not Wiccan) who works with one or more of her gods when creating a piece of magic. If I'm not a witch, what am I? If I don't 'do' withcraft, what do I do?

In my own religion (Heathenry) the word used by the Anglo Saxon to describe someone like me is witch. Indeed, the word "wicce" is Anglo Saxon, though its not the only word used to describe a witch, and there could be specific words for types of magic. However, if you feel I can't describe myself as a witch or as doing witchcraft, what words should I use, in you opinion?

I am a witch. I do not believe in gods. I practice magick.

Thats me summed up nicely! lol

Being a witch, what makes a witch?? Hmmm.. good question. I think that theres a difference between being someone who follows a pagan path and uses magick within that path and actually being a witch.

For me a Witch is someone who is tuned into using the universal energies around us. Is aware of the flipside of the looking glass and walks with feet in both worlds as it where. Hmmm... not a very good explanation is it?

I dont think you can learn to be a witch. I think you are either born one or your not. Im not saying that it is hereditory, that your mother has to be one or your grandmother although that does happen, I think its like a quirk.. like red hair. We are all born with all the senses, all the awareness and as most of us get older we loose that "other" sense. Some of us dont and in others it becomes more atuned. You can certainly learn magick.. well.. some magick.. relevant to your path, but I dont think that makes you a witch.

*sigh* I give up.. lol

Lady Cat Crimson, you got one part wrong! TRUE witchery requires the singing of "Baa Baa PINK Sheep"!
The number of legs being in contact with terra firma is optional. Just watch ye don't fall over, tryin' to leep the other 3 up!

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. [paraphrased]
Buddha said this.

names, lables and titles are all just meaningless distinctions. " In the sky there is no distinction of east or west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true."

So practice magick in any way you feel, test it, study it, follow religious riuals if like and call your self by any name that you like.

a name that which you call a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet!

Oh Xalle, don't despair, I always love it when you say that!

*blush* its a drum I seem to be banging a LOT recently. I fear the rolling of eyes when i do too!

All

It's certainly very important for academics to define an area of work or study. You couldn't write a thesis on "Neurologists" which turned out to actually be a study on "Podiatrists" because of some confusion about the definition of 'feet' and 'heads', I guess! However, I don't know many Witches who would be able to consistently self-define themselves, as other posters here have mentioned!

There's then the issue of Paganism, Neo-Paganism, Wicca, New Age, and other labels, including the dark depths of Gay-Faerie-Dark-Solitary-Hedge-Witchcraft. And what about the differences between Alexandrians and Gardnerians, or Traditional (although when I first started, twenty years ago, the joke was "I've met lots of hereditary witches, but never their parents", I suspect that might have changed by now)!

It eventually devolves like music - you get down to a category of "Neo-Ambient-Dark-Jazz-Fusion-Trip-Hop" which actually only relates to one group (*) - much like you are the only Witch like you!

There's common features to Witchcraft Beliefs and Practices - the role and relationship of Man/Woman and Nature, the pantheistic/polytheistic principles, the place of a magical worldview (and don't get me started on defining magic; one academic has "defined" esotericism with 4 +/- 2 'components', and it seems to have stuck; I prefer Crowley's simple "Art and Science of causing change to occur in conformity with Will") and the observations of seasonal, solar and lunar cycles through astronomical and agricultural events.

The expression of these principles is more individualistic than in other religious practices, hence the difficulties pinning down the common "How do I know I'm a Witch" experience. The best Witch I know (German, Herbalist, couldn't stop the Goddess coming through her if you beat her with a stick, sense of humour that could have been the prototype for Granny Weatherwax, forty years before Pratchett) sometimes doubts her credentials because she didn't know what a "moot" was, nor seemed to understand why the people at the "moot" were talking about "crystal healing" or "Chakras".

The Universe has only ever made one of you, never has before, never will again, you are as unique as your own fingerprint - get to know your own Nature, and the Nature of Nature, and you'll find Witchcraft will likely find you before you find it.

In the Great Work

Silenus

(*) Portishead