I was thinking about this in my blog, and there was enough interest to make me want to open it up to the rest of the site.
Age is a fact of life. We're all getting older. How many of you wonder what will happen in your old age? I expect we all want to be the independant, sprightly type, still independant and self possessed, but life isn't always like that.
Are any of us prepared to end up bed ridden, in a home, hospitalised? How many of you have made preparations for that day? How are you going to ensure that your beliefs and your person are respected?
It has always seemed to me that getting older is a life stage that should be celebrated in paganism, the result of a life spent accumulating wisdom, and a period where we can take our places as honoured members of society, teachers of those who will follow us.
However, a skim through any paper will tell you that this is not the case for most older people, and that in fact they are treated like second class citizens.
What are your feelings on this? How do you expect to be treated, both in daily life and by other pagans? Will there still be moots and celebrations for those of us too frail to climb hills or brave the city centre at night?
Full Version: Getting Older
hmmm well I did start to create a book of what I wanted to happen when I died, and I have got the basics laid out in my will, but as to being laid up, its not something I have prepared for, though as those that read my blog may have noticed things are going downhill in that department.
In the general sense though I feel that too many elderly are seen as past their sell by date and do not get the respect they deserve - this is particularly accute nowadays when so many of them were involved in thhe events of WWII
In the general sense though I feel that too many elderly are seen as past their sell by date and do not get the respect they deserve - this is particularly accute nowadays when so many of them were involved in thhe events of WWII
Being bedridden, in a home or hospice or hospitalized is not just the relm of the ederly because things like this tend to happen by chance and occurs in children and young adults.
Although the elderly are more at risk, due to their age, there have been in roads in precaucions one can make to counteract, such as dealing with thinning bones by taking medications or suppliments, practice a good diet and healthy life styles and keep learning and keep active.
Many will have made out their will and decide how they want their final days to go long before death. But many elderly tend to die alone, especially those with no children. Family and friends could have already died so who will be there to ensure ones wishes are adheared to? Then again, you're gone so why should you care.
It used to be a fear of mine, to die alone, but I've adjusted my attitude about it. I don't have children and very few family left, I will need to work until my 70's so I need to keep my health up and dying alone is something that I am resigned to.
Although the elderly are more at risk, due to their age, there have been in roads in precaucions one can make to counteract, such as dealing with thinning bones by taking medications or suppliments, practice a good diet and healthy life styles and keep learning and keep active.
Many will have made out their will and decide how they want their final days to go long before death. But many elderly tend to die alone, especially those with no children. Family and friends could have already died so who will be there to ensure ones wishes are adheared to? Then again, you're gone so why should you care.
It used to be a fear of mine, to die alone, but I've adjusted my attitude about it. I don't have children and very few family left, I will need to work until my 70's so I need to keep my health up and dying alone is something that I am resigned to.
A good topic, as while their is a chance that being bedridden can happen to anyone, time happens to everyone.
Have I made any plans to make my beliefs respected, if or when I end up in a home? - I'm not sure what options are avilable to me. Are pagan elderly taken away for Halloween, akin to what the kirk does here for christian elderly ( at christmas?)
Or is it a case of are we doing enough to respect our own elderly?
Have I made any plans to make my beliefs respected, if or when I end up in a home? - I'm not sure what options are avilable to me. Are pagan elderly taken away for Halloween, akin to what the kirk does here for christian elderly ( at christmas?)
Or is it a case of are we doing enough to respect our own elderly?
Well, seeing as according to some I'm nearly there, 
i suppose I ought to add my two-penn'orth. (Eight farthings in the old money)
I've seen a few old peoples home, and quite frankly, the thought of ending up in one terrifies me. I would hope that i can just peg it one day in my own home, but can understand that a lot of people aren't so fortunate. Certainly i think that as a society we don't pay enough respect to our senior citizens. And Cos is right, many older people at present have seen things we can only have nightmares about.
I can just remember my Great Uncle Jack, who as a sixteen year old, had fought in the first world war. He was relieved at the front by his brother Tom, who was never seen again. I wish I could have been just that little bit older to talk to Jack more, but he died when I was ten.
Unlike Cos, I've not made a will or anything, mainly because I think it's tempting fate, I know that's stupid but its just me! I have discussed these matters with my sister and my son, I like to think I could rely on them.
But as for growing old gracefully, I'd rather not. I hope to be still having a good time and be relatively independant into my seventies.
And if I ever get to the stage where I need feeding, or cleaning, or even just ramble on about nothing for ages, someone please shoot me!
No not now!
Well, form an orderly queue then.
i suppose I ought to add my two-penn'orth. (Eight farthings in the old money)I've seen a few old peoples home, and quite frankly, the thought of ending up in one terrifies me. I would hope that i can just peg it one day in my own home, but can understand that a lot of people aren't so fortunate. Certainly i think that as a society we don't pay enough respect to our senior citizens. And Cos is right, many older people at present have seen things we can only have nightmares about.
I can just remember my Great Uncle Jack, who as a sixteen year old, had fought in the first world war. He was relieved at the front by his brother Tom, who was never seen again. I wish I could have been just that little bit older to talk to Jack more, but he died when I was ten.
Unlike Cos, I've not made a will or anything, mainly because I think it's tempting fate, I know that's stupid but its just me! I have discussed these matters with my sister and my son, I like to think I could rely on them.
But as for growing old gracefully, I'd rather not. I hope to be still having a good time and be relatively independant into my seventies.
And if I ever get to the stage where I need feeding, or cleaning, or even just ramble on about nothing for ages, someone please shoot me!
No not now!
Well, form an orderly queue then.
This has gotten me thinking because I've been thinking about such things as growing older and death. I agree with Trent, if I'm drooling, can't feed myself etc then someone put me out of my misery. On the otherhand, it doesn't necessairly need to be like that. I see older people in their 70's and older supplementing their pension or social security by working as baggers in grocery stores. Some actually do it for having something to do.
There is an elderly woman in her 70's I see everyday at 7 am standing at the end of the driveway of the apt complex waiting to be picked up for work. I don't know what she does, but she is apparently reliable. And I like to think that she does this because she wants something to do rather than must work to help pay the rent. But seeing how we treat the elderly in this country, the later is probably more common. Many women her age spent most of their prime raising children and taking care of their husbands with not much work experience. The elderly have much to give the young. They have lived through the most technogical advances ever seen. Mom listened to radio, then watched t.v. then played games on the internet. She went through a world war, depression and some of the most hateful times in history. Us baby boomers and middle agers have seen pretty much the same thing as our parents did. Although with some slight changes. No WW but Vietnam, race riots, the assassanation of a president, Civil Rights figures Malcom X and Martin Luther, a presidential candidate RFK and the attempted assassination of Reagan and Ford. Don't you think we would have a few insights to the ways of the world?
We must accept growing older, I mean think about it, what is the alternative? Now, looking older, completely different thing. Kicking and screaming every step of the way is what I do and buying any creams that has the word anti-wrinkle or anti-aging in it.
There is an elderly woman in her 70's I see everyday at 7 am standing at the end of the driveway of the apt complex waiting to be picked up for work. I don't know what she does, but she is apparently reliable. And I like to think that she does this because she wants something to do rather than must work to help pay the rent. But seeing how we treat the elderly in this country, the later is probably more common. Many women her age spent most of their prime raising children and taking care of their husbands with not much work experience. The elderly have much to give the young. They have lived through the most technogical advances ever seen. Mom listened to radio, then watched t.v. then played games on the internet. She went through a world war, depression and some of the most hateful times in history. Us baby boomers and middle agers have seen pretty much the same thing as our parents did. Although with some slight changes. No WW but Vietnam, race riots, the assassanation of a president, Civil Rights figures Malcom X and Martin Luther, a presidential candidate RFK and the attempted assassination of Reagan and Ford. Don't you think we would have a few insights to the ways of the world?
We must accept growing older, I mean think about it, what is the alternative? Now, looking older, completely different thing. Kicking and screaming every step of the way is what I do and buying any creams that has the word anti-wrinkle or anti-aging in it.
Trent, make a will! You will cause no end of aggro to your relatives if you die intestate. They will have to go through a whole lot of legal stuff to prove they are entitled to your property, and advertise all over the place in case somebody they don't know about might have a claim, etc etc. Buy one of those do-it-yourself will from Boots.
Me, I feel that if I lose my marbles I shall just have to suffer what fortune throws at me. But If I become physically incapacitated, I hope to have practised enough meditation to be able to decide, Hey, this is it, time to move on - and to do so. I imagine it's a bit like standing on the edge of a cliff above a cold dark sea. i.e. terrifying. But then maybe I'll have established rapport with a guardian from beyond who can help me with it. I like to think I'd try, anyway.
Me, I feel that if I lose my marbles I shall just have to suffer what fortune throws at me. But If I become physically incapacitated, I hope to have practised enough meditation to be able to decide, Hey, this is it, time to move on - and to do so. I imagine it's a bit like standing on the edge of a cliff above a cold dark sea. i.e. terrifying. But then maybe I'll have established rapport with a guardian from beyond who can help me with it. I like to think I'd try, anyway.
I have made some preperations for when I die, everyone who is close to me knows that I do not want to be laid up on a life support machine hooked to me at any age, when its my time to go they have to let me go...
I have worked in nursing homes etc and seen how people are treated when they are older, they do not get enough respect if any at all...these are still human beings and it really pisses me off that the attitude of some is that these guys are past their sell by date...they fought in the wars they tried to save our country and look at the way we thank em...by saying oh sod you your old now why should we care?
I know this isnt everyones veiw but it is some peoples, and I have managed to work in one nice home so I know they are not all the same but alot are
Anyway I have written a letter at the moment stating what I want to happen to me if it happens before I get the chance to make a will....and I hope that if I do make it to old age that I will be able to die peacefully and that enuthiasia (sp?) is made legal by then
I have worked in nursing homes etc and seen how people are treated when they are older, they do not get enough respect if any at all...these are still human beings and it really pisses me off that the attitude of some is that these guys are past their sell by date...they fought in the wars they tried to save our country and look at the way we thank em...by saying oh sod you your old now why should we care?
I know this isnt everyones veiw but it is some peoples, and I have managed to work in one nice home so I know they are not all the same but alot are
Anyway I have written a letter at the moment stating what I want to happen to me if it happens before I get the chance to make a will....and I hope that if I do make it to old age that I will be able to die peacefully and that enuthiasia (sp?) is made legal by then
Locally it costs between £300 - £400 per week to live in a nursing home - more if you need nursing and moving and handling administered. In return you get a roof over your head, unimaginative meat and two veg meals, exclusively Xtian spiritual comfort, community singing of First World War songs (we have to photocopy the music at work) and remeniscences groups to talk about the good old days. Everything seems to be geared toward looking back rather than drawing on creativity to do something for the present. No wonder so many folks go doolally. . . Not a pleasant scenario for anyone who values their independance.
As others have already said, I do believe we have an obligation to look after our old people, especially those who have served their country but I don't think the current arrangements serve them as well as they deserve, which is no disprespect intended to the people who work in these establishments, it's the system that is at fault. It certainly won't work for future generations who are not as willing to put up with a poor deal as our current set of 70+ citizens. I really don't know what the answer is though.
As others have already said, I do believe we have an obligation to look after our old people, especially those who have served their country but I don't think the current arrangements serve them as well as they deserve, which is no disprespect intended to the people who work in these establishments, it's the system that is at fault. It certainly won't work for future generations who are not as willing to put up with a poor deal as our current set of 70+ citizens. I really don't know what the answer is though.
[QUOTE]Trent said: "Unlike Cos, I've not made a will or anything, mainly because I think it's tempting fate, I know that's stupid but its just me! I have discussed these matters with my sister and my son, I like to think I could rely on them."
Well Trent, all I say to you and anyone else, is get one made and save your loved one a whole load of trouble in the future. Not only will a few words written down NOW, ensure that your goods and cash go where YOU want them to go but they could very well stop someone you dislike, or the thieving government of the day, getting their dirty sticky mitts on your hard earned stuff.
A very good friend of mine never got round to signing his will and when he died very suddenly, all his possesions including a 1.5 million pound house plus several million pounds worth of high quality antiques and stocks / shares, went to a distant cousin who he hated with a passion. Neither of them would have P***ed on the other if they had been on fire.
Well Trent, all I say to you and anyone else, is get one made and save your loved one a whole load of trouble in the future. Not only will a few words written down NOW, ensure that your goods and cash go where YOU want them to go but they could very well stop someone you dislike, or the thieving government of the day, getting their dirty sticky mitts on your hard earned stuff.
A very good friend of mine never got round to signing his will and when he died very suddenly, all his possesions including a 1.5 million pound house plus several million pounds worth of high quality antiques and stocks / shares, went to a distant cousin who he hated with a passion. Neither of them would have P***ed on the other if they had been on fire.
Good thread. Got me thinking. Apart from arranging for disposal of my remains and extracting promises from my nearest and dearest to bump me off if I get incapable, I haven't done anything. Even leaving your body to medical science costs money over here so maybe I better get my bum into gear and do something. Thanks
A friend of my husband's tried leaving his body to medical science well before he died, but he was told he was too old!!!
We have a 93 yr old who hates her life, and 2 84 yr olds who aren't too keen either, none of them are in homes, they still are just able with daily assistance to live in their own homes. I had a grandmother who lived to 101 but suffered with Alzheimers, all this has put me off living forever, and would just prefer not to wake up one morning in my late 70's, having made sure my then dogs would be provided for. Money does make old age much more comfortable, but our 3 are always at the doctors, who now are beginning not to be able to help them. Depressing and frightening for them and very worrying for us, and it just won't improve. Think its really the pits. An absolute insult.
We have a 93 yr old who hates her life, and 2 84 yr olds who aren't too keen either, none of them are in homes, they still are just able with daily assistance to live in their own homes. I had a grandmother who lived to 101 but suffered with Alzheimers, all this has put me off living forever, and would just prefer not to wake up one morning in my late 70's, having made sure my then dogs would be provided for. Money does make old age much more comfortable, but our 3 are always at the doctors, who now are beginning not to be able to help them. Depressing and frightening for them and very worrying for us, and it just won't improve. Think its really the pits. An absolute insult.
I've been thinking a lot about this too. The thought of failing health is one of the few things that scare me. Frankly, I think I'd rather die fast in a car crash or by lighning strike or something!
No fewer than four people in my close family have developed colon cander in the past five year, one of them died, so I know I have a very good chance of getting it myself. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm developing arthritis, and I'm only 22. I can't imagine what I'll be like in 50 years!
Despite this, I'm just trying to live a fulll active life now, and do my best to keep healthy, I can't stop the aging process but I can at least fight it! As for 'homes' I don't know if that'd be such a bad thing. My aunt is 75 and she recently broke her leg, so she had to go into a home until she was well enough to be alone. She was very stubborn and independant, but she loved the home! The nurses were great to her and she had a private room. If caring for myself becomes too hard, I don't see anything wrong with having the younger generations help me out, after all, they'll owe me a lot by then! lol
No fewer than four people in my close family have developed colon cander in the past five year, one of them died, so I know I have a very good chance of getting it myself. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm developing arthritis, and I'm only 22. I can't imagine what I'll be like in 50 years!
Despite this, I'm just trying to live a fulll active life now, and do my best to keep healthy, I can't stop the aging process but I can at least fight it! As for 'homes' I don't know if that'd be such a bad thing. My aunt is 75 and she recently broke her leg, so she had to go into a home until she was well enough to be alone. She was very stubborn and independant, but she loved the home! The nurses were great to her and she had a private room. If caring for myself becomes too hard, I don't see anything wrong with having the younger generations help me out, after all, they'll owe me a lot by then! lol
Good thread!
Generally, I think nursing homes are appalling and sunny, I think either your aunt had money.. or just got lucky.. imo..
Sigh, as for the will, no matter what age we are.. or even lacking in $ or possessions, one should have a will. Esp, to state not to be kept alive, if brain damaged etc etc.. I really worry about my cats! They're my priority..
My moms family, most of them all lived to be in their 90's and my grandma, at 89 was still outside raking the leaves!! lol and would have continued to do so, if her eyesight hadn't failed her.
A friends father, was doing great well into his 90's.. He's 96 now and just. just developing memory problems , etc.
My mom is 73 and quite active, for her age.. My Uncle, 71, has taught Yoga, for over 40 yrs now and he's in great shape.. Straightest back!! Must get back into Yoga.. making note!! lol
I really really think, its how much interest and how much you keep yourself going and DOING things!! and how well you eat!! Good nutrition..
~~~~~~~~~
We kept my grandmother, at home, as long as we possibly could.. Then while out, having lunch, one day (she was home).. i thought I might have left something, on stove.. (usually there was someone at home).. but then we realized, what would happen, if she were left alone.. and an emergency.. or even if there wasn't one.
It cost too much, unfortunately, for someone to come in..
We all hated, hated putting her into a home!! Horrible, I remember visiting her, and it was dinner, and ..
and they actually had a rope!! A rope, around some womens, waist.. dragging her to the dining room!!!
ARGHHHHHHHHHH
Where is the respect and dignity??? These are human beings!!
Also, homes are notorious for theft and staff isn't usually well checked out..
(We did move my grandma, to a different home.. but still).. soooooo hard!!
Not what any of us wanted and esp my grandma!!
Anyway, I hope to have a nice healthy supply of valium or something, and when the time comes, make sure my cats have homes (I'll always have cats!
) and then just go into the woods.. or cuddle up. in my own bed..and peacefully and serene go off..
Of course, thats what we would all like! but.. who knows??
Blessings and good health!! and Fun!
Whispered~
Generally, I think nursing homes are appalling and sunny, I think either your aunt had money.. or just got lucky.. imo..
Sigh, as for the will, no matter what age we are.. or even lacking in $ or possessions, one should have a will. Esp, to state not to be kept alive, if brain damaged etc etc.. I really worry about my cats! They're my priority..
My moms family, most of them all lived to be in their 90's and my grandma, at 89 was still outside raking the leaves!! lol and would have continued to do so, if her eyesight hadn't failed her.
A friends father, was doing great well into his 90's.. He's 96 now and just. just developing memory problems , etc.
My mom is 73 and quite active, for her age.. My Uncle, 71, has taught Yoga, for over 40 yrs now and he's in great shape.. Straightest back!! Must get back into Yoga.. making note!! lol
I really really think, its how much interest and how much you keep yourself going and DOING things!! and how well you eat!! Good nutrition..
~~~~~~~~~
We kept my grandmother, at home, as long as we possibly could.. Then while out, having lunch, one day (she was home).. i thought I might have left something, on stove.. (usually there was someone at home).. but then we realized, what would happen, if she were left alone.. and an emergency.. or even if there wasn't one.
It cost too much, unfortunately, for someone to come in..
We all hated, hated putting her into a home!! Horrible, I remember visiting her, and it was dinner, and ..
and they actually had a rope!! A rope, around some womens, waist.. dragging her to the dining room!!!ARGHHHHHHHHHH
Where is the respect and dignity??? These are human beings!!
Also, homes are notorious for theft and staff isn't usually well checked out..
(We did move my grandma, to a different home.. but still).. soooooo hard!!
Not what any of us wanted and esp my grandma!!
Anyway, I hope to have a nice healthy supply of valium or something, and when the time comes, make sure my cats have homes (I'll always have cats!
) and then just go into the woods.. or cuddle up. in my own bed..and peacefully and serene go off..Of course, thats what we would all like! but.. who knows??
Blessings and good health!! and Fun!
Whispered~
Nice thread.
Hopefully the days when I have to start worrying about this are still far gone.
I hope to postpose going to a nursing home as much as possiblle and stay independent as long as possible. However, if need be, I hope to be at a stage in life that I can accept this last challenge in life.
As for the pagan celebrations, for me they can be performed in the mind when need be. Of course, having all the rites makes it easier, but I don't belief they are absolutely necessary.
I probably will not write a will to arrange what happens to me when I left this world. Whatever happens to me afterwards, will be of no concern to me anymore.
I have to make peace with my Gods and Goddesses on my own, nobody else can take care of that. They can perform any rite of passage they choose, if it comforts those I leave behind.
Hopefully the days when I have to start worrying about this are still far gone.
I hope to postpose going to a nursing home as much as possiblle and stay independent as long as possible. However, if need be, I hope to be at a stage in life that I can accept this last challenge in life.
As for the pagan celebrations, for me they can be performed in the mind when need be. Of course, having all the rites makes it easier, but I don't belief they are absolutely necessary.
I probably will not write a will to arrange what happens to me when I left this world. Whatever happens to me afterwards, will be of no concern to me anymore.
I have to make peace with my Gods and Goddesses on my own, nobody else can take care of that. They can perform any rite of passage they choose, if it comforts those I leave behind.
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