Been thinking about this a lot lately. Do you have faith? I'm not sure I do..I have trouble reconciling my rational and empirical mind with my unfathomable and perhaps unfulfillable longing for the lush optimism of surrender to something greater. I have as much belief in imaginative and mythological/magical realities as the "real" world, but have never been able to let myself float further out, staying instead with things I can work out and accept, such as Pantheism rather than theism - things grounded in observable life. So, does anyone else struggle with this issue? can you have hope without faith, or is there only the self, the individual as the only source of trust and worth and motivation?

Pareidolia x x

Interesting question indeed

I have faith in my belief system, total and utter faith. However for me it is not a "surrender to something greater." That is not part of my belief system, it is neither superior or inferior, for me it just *is.*

You can indeed have hope without faith in all kinds of ways and in all kinds of situations. For what would life be if there was no hope?

I have gone back to basics and become sceptical of everything. If think that if you have utter faith and unquestioning belief in a system or path you are in danger of becoming a sheep or fundamentalist religious fanatic.

Thanks for the replies

Weatherwitch: By surrender, I think I mean embracing something purely on trust/faith. Your point on hope is well taken though.

Welshbamboo: I agree, it is why I find Faith so enticing yet so frightening. Absolutes are tempting when everything else seems so unstable and unreliable. I wonder how it would feel to hand my brain over. I doubt I ever will, but it nags at me all the same.

Should clairfy really, the one thing I really like about what I believe in is that the Gods will think nothing of kicking my arse into shape if I'm being stupid about something. It's never been an easy or straight forward path but for me is perfect because I have to keep questioning and analysing (though not overkill!) things and my beliefs. If things were handed on a plate to me then there is no challenge and no respect

well, as they say, experience is the best teacher, and cumulatively I do have a slightly chaotic belief in matters magical and spiritual - I just can't escape thinking about a quote, can't remember who said it, along the lines of "It's enough to behold a beautiful garden; there's no need to have fairies at the bottom of it." I feel like I am betraying some sort of rationalist ideal though I don't know why I care so much about being percieved as I don't know...gullible I suppose.

I suspect the fact our culture provides no context for magical beliefs is one reason for this difficulty. A community or group that allowed for such experiences to be shared could I imagine give them a power and meaning that it is hard sometimes to accept as a lone pagan plagued by doubt. I'd love for someone who has worked in a group or coven to give some insight to this

I would like to have faith, but I don't think I do... Yet.

This echoes exaclty what I think. I guess I am a sceptical empiricist at heart... being stupid or credulous counts to me as one of the worst 'sins' of all. I think the world would be a lot safer for people if there was less faith and more questioning.

Oak

Unlike Lou Reed, I don't think you need a busload of faith to get by. Scepticism is much more practical. If you approach all things with scepticism you can congratulate yourself when proved right, and can look forward to learning something new when proved wrong.

Pretty much why Faith is scary : you may be setting yourself up for failure or maybe worse, self delusion?

I have faith in a few things.
Do you think belief and faith are equivalent?
i.e. I believe the sun will rise in the morning = I have faith that the sun will rise in the morning ??
I'm not sure, I've been trying to think of a counter-example.

Will think about this a bit more...

I'm not that scary, am I?
Sorry I couldn't help it

Seriously, though,


No, definately not. Faith, to me, is a belief in something without concrete proof, so in that case it works, but you can believe that someone said something (say in a newspaper article) but that's not faith, because it can be easily verified. So faith requires belief, but belief does not necessarily mean faith.

I have faith in my God, but it is not a totally unquestioning. I'm constantly re-evaluating my faith, and matching what I know of the world around me with my beliefs. It's not blind, but it is there. Yes, I doubt sometimes, but I keep turning (being turned?) back to my path. So I have faith.

I'm not explaining myself very well, maybe I'll try again later

I think faith & belief are similar - they both relate to proof.

Having met my Lady, now I have trust. I'm not trying to sound arrogant here, it's just that I've had my proof (i.e. for me).

However, I recognise that the Gods I follow are both real and my personal way of contacting the universal energy/soul/source. It's just that I'm human, and need symbols to comprehend.

regards
ht, the neo-archeo-pagan gnosto-mono-panthiest.

Belief is to prefer one truth over another, we believe this ... or that. We give our reason for this preference and so it is perfectly 'reasonable'. No one can avoid 'belief' it is a large part of how human knowledge works. Faith is very similar but can be seen as an act of trust that tends to be loged in another person, their words or promises. The line is not a clear one but I would say everyone 'believes' in the above sense, but not everyone has 'Faith'. That Faith can be in the teachings of a person or school where it is the person or school that is the focus, or it can be in another being who 'reveals' things. Faith is like a 'gift' from another, whereas Belief is a choice you arrive at yourself. When they are wrong the first is a betrayal the second an error. This is a philosophical distinction that in everyday language is hinted at but not always held to!