Weatherwitches recent topic on Hegdewitchery reminded me of this little gem I was directed to right back when I fledged. I can't copy and paste it here as it's protected so I'm including the link.

Ritual of the Raven

Esssentially it describes a ritual that involves killing and stuffing a raven then burning it to facilitate the journeying that is the purpose of the ritual.

I think it raises some interesting issues about Hedgewitchery but also about the morals and ethics involved in taking a life just do a bit of a working (so to speak), sacrifices in general and as the author claims this ritual is generations old it also makes me wonder about those who claim their Traditional Witchcraft is ancient when there is so little to back that up in recognised history. Can we assume he or his grandad or someone made it up? Or is it possible that books don't actually know everything after all?

I'd be facinated to hear your opinions on this or anything it raises for you.

'No sacrifice please we're neo-pagan!' It does raise (if completely accurate and true) some interesting questions about what may or my not have occured. Blood has always been thought of as powerful to both dietes and those who know that it's a cheap way to make sure something is saturated in your energy ( you use your own!) Does the non-use of scarifice technically make the practice of neopaganism 'fluffy'. All words and no commitment at the sharp end of the scale?
It's certainly an interesting article although the name of the house...
I'll wait to see what the others have to say too.

mm I would need to do some research, but first thoughts are our somewhat aborrhence to sacrifice is probably a modern phenomena, developed from a growing belief in animal rights etc. I suppose the real question is whether sacrifice is necessary and adds a huge power burst to a working.. and of course whether personal beliefs etc would allow?

I don't ever see myself sacrificing an animal... and from the little I've studied regarding witchcraft, while yes there was definitely sacrifice iinvolved.. some of it wasn't quite what you'd suppose. Things like eye of newt were actually old folk names for plants etc (can't remember if eye of newt was one of them.. but you get what I mean), or when it called for blood of so and so, often again it was an old folk name for some plant/herb/spice etc etc.

Attitudes change, does that make our magic practices any less powerful than apparent old traditional spells.. I doubt it. I do actually wonder with this preoccupation of trying to recreate the past, yeah ok loads of information has been lost, oral history/stories etc yet we are intelligent folk, imaginative and creative, surely we can't discover things again for ourselves?

I've heard of this ritual before, in various forms too. I suppose in a way it goes back to the old debate of whether the mind is more important in witchcraft or the tools...

Very: The names used in Macbeth were actually all herb name, my english teacher, years ago, told me it was Shakespaers attempt at satire. These horrible sounding ingredients all actually being plants.

Dare I admit I've never read or seen MacBeth...........

Ok, we'll I'm sure the three witches spell will be on the internet, it makes for interesting reading!

For the lazy people - Love Shakespeare myself

Enter the three Witches.

1 WITCH. Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

2 WITCH. Thrice and once, the hedge-pig whin'd.

3 WITCH. Harpier cries:—'tis time! 'tis time!

1 WITCH. Round about the caldron go;
In the poison'd entrails throw.—
Toad, that under cold stone,
Days and nights has thirty-one;
Swelter'd venom sleeping got,
Boil thou first i' the charmed pot!

ALL. Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.

2 WITCH. Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg, and owlet's wing,—
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

ALL. Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.

3 WITCH. Scale of dragon; tooth of wolf;
Witches' mummy; maw and gulf
Of the ravin'd salt-sea shark;
Root of hemlock digg'd i the dark;
Liver of blaspheming Jew;
Gall of goat, and slips of yew
Sliver'd in the moon's eclipse;
Nose of Turk, and Tartar's lips;
Finger of birth-strangled babe
Ditch-deliver'd by a drab,—
Make the gruel thick and slab:
Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,
For the ingrediants of our caldron.

ALL. Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.

2 WITCH. Cool it with a baboon's blood,
Then the charm is firm and good.

---

brinded - having obscure dark streaks or flecks on gray
gulf - the throat
drab - prostitute
chaudron - entrails

edited to explain some of the words that some may not know what they meant

It does seem a bit strange when someone offers a sacrifice, its always something else that gets killed, maimed, injured and pain inflicted.

Not always, there as those who use their own blood, - me included. Although I would never kill meself (sacrifice being such a powerful word) it would render the ritual pretty ineffective if it couldn't be finished.

Sacrifice I never think is to cause pain, unless the person believes they can do it. But sacrifice may show commitment, or totemic ( its no coincedince for example that a Raven is used for between the worlds work as mentioned above)

Well, the Romans eventually outlawed sacrifices (in the killing of a live creature sense), deeming them barbaric and unnecessary. So it's not even as though it could be argued that it's modern sensibilities and squeamishness that has decreed sacrificing a living creature as being unethical and unnecessary.

And to me it's not just that it is cruel that renders such an action unwarranted, it's the thought that to me, a sacrifice is the surrendering, offering, of something that is precious to me and costs me something in terms of either money, or comfort, or whatever, to just give away. It's my payment for a transaction so the idea is that it ought to be something that really means something to me. And killing an animal which I have not raised, nor intend to use to feed myself or my family, is meaningless in the sense that I had no vested interest in the health and wellbeing of that animal. It'd be like picking some flowers as an offering - they'd have been as well in the ground and I can imagine the Gods saying "so what?" if offered.

Just my take on it.

As Pomona has indicated a sacrifice is only a sacrife if the object is precious to you. In the old days (before even I was born) animals -pigs, cattle, were considered as wealth (as you are aware if you know your runes) and so slitting piggies throat and giving him to a god was just like putting money on the collection plate.

In the same vein (no pun intended) sacrifices were often in the form of sharing the meat with the priests, the gods and the congregation (and anyone familiar with the Old Testement will see that aptly described).

However the death of a subject could easily be seen as the release of energies that can then be used in the working.

In the case of the above ritual it is more likely that the herbs themselves produced a state of altered concioussness when inhaled and the effects of preparing the ritual and the daubing of the body 'paint' simply focussed the mind.

And as has been already mentioned a lot of the old eye of newt stuff was simply common names for common herbs (or as Buckland maintains - a code witches used to protect their secrets )

With my beliefs I could probably justify the sacrifice of another life as I do not believe that anything is lost - however as my understanding of magic and energy tells me that its mostly props and really all you need is a good imagination and a strong will I would find the act of doing such a thing would defeat the purpose - ie if it all comes down to will power, to conduct such a 'powerfull' ritual would mean that I didn't have the strength of will to enact working in the first place.


Besides that I could not justify it morally.

Thanks for the explanations of the values people did have on their chattals being the 'justification' for sacrifice, but have to say I find the act morally repugnant also. Also didn't the Xtain (now) God also sacrifice his own son, according to Catholic catechism?

Worthwhile sacrifice: donating a kidney; putting a suffering pet to sleep; staying up all night withg a screaming baby. Not magic? Hm. Rudolph Steiner sugggested a thing for getting rid of garden pests which sounds very like magic, and involves sacrifice, namely the burning of some bodies of said pests and sprinkling the ashes around your plants. I have never tried this. But I have been involved in the ritual sacrifice of slugs and snails on occasion, in order to allow more life force for my lettuces. Drowning in beer, that's a sacrifice, isn't it?

Thanks for the replies so far, very interesting folks. I should probably be fair the source and point out that this ritual doesn't really feature a sacrifice. I mentioned sacrifice only because it's also a way of killing for ritual purpose. I would say that the death of the bird in this instance is nothing to do with it being an offering to anyone or thing but because the performer of the ritual wants to employ the cross world ability of the raven him or herself. The bridge across is fashioned from the herbs inhaled inducing the necassary altered state and the blood and life force of the bird conveys its ability to cross over and back again to the witch.

Or anyway, that could be how the author might describe it.

I find this interesting on a lot of levels. I find it curious that a person with generations of magical ability behind him would feel the need for such pomp in order to achieve his end. Also that they would be so cavalier about the life of a creature otherwise held in great respect by them.
Personally, I wouldn't want to perform such a ritual and for once not simply because I find ritual in general a bit silly. I think it's grandstanding and window dressing, a way of appearing to be a very powerful and knowledgeable witch to the casual observer but look closer and I find it reveals more of their shortcomings than their achievements.

Well its a bit funny with Christianity.

Read the OT and you see exact instructions on what, when and how to sacrifice to YHWH, then you have Jesus who died as the ultimate sacrifice - yet he was also YHWH and came back to life anyhoo.

I understand that Jews no longer sacrifice as the only place that sacrifice is now allowed is not there anymore while Muslims sort of sacrifice with the killing of goats for certain festivals but the slaughter is in the way of Halal and Muslims tend to refute that Halal is dedicating to Alah.

[quote=Pomona,May 27 2005, 05:47 PM]
Well, the Romans eventually outlawed sacrifices (in the killing of a live creature sense), deeming them barbaric and unnecessary. So it's not even as though it could be argued that it's modern sensibilities and squeamishness that has decreed sacrificing a living creature as being unethical and unnecessary.

I thought the Romans sacrificedanimals to read their entrails?

cheers
Finvarra

They did, but in time the practice became outlawed. This site is pretty good for information and has a full page devoted to the issue of sacrifices in Roman religion if you're interested

http://www.religioromana.net/onsacrifices.htm

Blood sacrifice for me is my own. Obviously not into killing ravens but know what was meant by something precious. If you want something badly enough you will sacrifice anything to get it. In a time where ANY animal was potential food, then killing it just for ritual purpose was dedication plus plus - like the practice of launching a ship through blood - a sacrificial animal would be tied to the launch slip and the keel passing over it would kill it, thus ensuring a safe life for the ship - swap, life for life, as I do blood for blood. Don't think we can judge by today's standards. Sacrificing something precious, like , er um, not going on pooter for a month, might be a modern day equivalent.

A valid point Ma (been away for a couple days or are we just posting at different times?). Blood as mentioned before may be to symbolicaly show commitment or it may be to 'tag' something easily and powerfully.
But can I just ask for t'others opinions on whether blood, is it a show of commitment, or a 'tag' or somewhere in between. I feel that , knowing how people think of the practice on a wholly theoretical basis or not may help to explain our opinions on the rite mentioned at the start.