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16 hours ago, Ellinas said:

I'm never sure that the term "psychic" really means much - but then, I'm never certain where the physical world ends and perception begins.

A good new thread?

I'm never sure that the term "psychic" really means much - but then, I'm never certain where the physical world ends and perception begins.

I recall one anecdotal account of a spectacular success in map-dowsing, leading to the discovery of the bodies of two missing people in a pick up truck at the bottom of a lake.  They had fallen through the ice.  The process was so accurate that the Police launch stopped directly above the vehicle.  Whether this is true, and, if so whether exaggerated, I do not know.

If such happens, there is still biology involved.  There must be wherever an item is held.  It comes back to "what is perceived and how".  I still find myself unable to speculate with any hope of a level of satisfactory accuracy.  In this instance, I don't know even if there is anything about which to speculate.

Just been doing a bit of reading on this trying to find some research.

 It’s worth mentioning that while the dictionary doesn’t seem to distinguish between divining, dowsing and radesthesia; I do.

I only have experience of physical dowsing: locating pipe work and electric cables - this I would call dowsing.

 The more psychic uses such as asking questions or map dowsing are beyond my experience.  This I would call radesthesia.

Edited November 9 by Moonsmith

21 hours ago, Ellinas said:

Did the process work, or was it "coincidence"?

If you discovered that dowsing rods worked usefully ( I can’t claim “accurately” because I can miss by half a pace) say eighty percent of the times you used them; would that answer your question?  That is approximately my hit rate.  It has taken time to establish the different way that I convert my reaction to tool movement.  I once stared at the ground looking for some highly improbable stimulus while my wife laughed.  I was standing beneath a power line.  I had however realised that the rods were moving strangely.

I suspect that successful or consistent repetition might answer your more general inquiry.

 

30 minutes ago, Maeve said:

Anyone can do it - He held the hazel twigs so tight (he is very strong having been a prop forward for Halifax in his day) that the bark stripped off the twigs as they fought to move in his hands 😄 You should have seen his face!

 

Indeed😄. The more his muscles were braced against the twig the more effort he would apply to movement.

I wonder why no one has done research into the initial stimulus.  It’s one of the few science projects that I can think of that could be carried out at relatively low cost, at least to the stage where data is handed over to neuroscience.  Unfortunately I do not think there is a PhD to be found in the back yard on this one.

Anyone can do it - even the most sceptical - I know, because I have a friend who is a Yorkshire man and he is the most sceptical person I have ever met. He held the hazel twigs so tight (he is very strong having been a prop forward for Halifax in his day) that the bark stripped off the twigs as they fought to move in his hands 😄 You should have seen his face!

That biology is involved is obvious.  But whether it is characterised as "what makes it work?", "why does it work?" or "how does it work?", the fact remains the sensing of an unknown variable by an unknown faculty is something I have no hope of guessing accurately, or of testing whether the guess is accurate.  So, I will remain steadfastly uninterested in that procedure.  That it a physical process that works is sufficient.

The point that does intrigue me is the question I asked above - what's the difference between whether it works of is coincidence?  In intrigues me in part because I am uncertain as to whether I can even formulate it into a valid thought process.  Basically, to what extent does anything work because of a coincidence or series of coincidences?  In a large enough data set, there may well be a series of, say, 100 positive results even where "chance" seems to be the in play.  Did the process work, or was it "coincidence"?

The mind is working on this one, and I still don't know where it is taking me.

Oh deary dreary me Ellinas.

There isn’t any mystery as to how it works.  There is a problem with what causes it to work!

 What makes the rods cross, the pendulum swing and the hazel twig flick is the same thing.  I have carefully avoided saying what it is.  Not out of any sense of arcane knowledge but because once you know what causes the movement you can’t un-know it and that makes it harder for anyone trying for the first time.  Suffice it to say that it is the dowser.  
 

What is not known is what sense brings about the dowser ‘s action and that bit of biology interests me a lot. So little biology remains undiscovered at this level.  How can I not be intrigued?

As for the effectiveness of the rods - well you and I have discussed this before when I told you that I had found Lord Tredegar’s  water main before I knew that it existed.  For many years watermen were supplied with rods.  Indeed when I needed to find a sewer at Tradegar house, the guy from Tech. Services used rods.  He’s the guy who taught me!

Edited November 3 by Moonsmith