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It happens rarely. My clearest recollection is of realising that I was dreaming of driving my first car. I decided it would be interesting if it would fly and then decided to disappear into a mass of red clouds. I've also found myself facing some rather unfriendly, snake eyed rabbits in a warren. I think that was my first lucid dream. I had been flying (again) over the countryside and decided to go underground. I was very young at the time. Nothing deep or particularly spiritual, I'm afraid. Imagination plays more of a part in my practice than does lucid dreaming.

Hi everyone, Hope you're well. I've been discussing lucid dreaming with a friend and it led me to want to ask folk on here how, if at all, lucid dreaming forms part of your pagan path? Some of my experiences of a heightened sense of reality, vividness and impactfulness of experience, have been through lucid dreams. The feeling of being aware that one is dreaming and able to make conscious choices and even alter the 'outer' aspects of the content of the dream is quite unmistakable. I've engaged with some whom I consider to be personified deity and Otherworldly mentors in this way. Experiences that I'll always carry with me. I would love to hear of your thoughts or experiences of lucid dreaming. Best ED

I’ve posted a link (in links) to a BBC article in today’s news just to illustrate a bit of the colourful side of Paganism. Perhaps it will do something to balance my prosaic take on the subject. i know little of Witchcraft but I enjoyed the article and like her approach.

👍 It's as good a position as any and better than quite a few.

Yes, it was in Nettle's "Who are your deities?" thread. I said "I seem to have become an atheist. That was never my plan, but here I am." Veggiedancer later said it better than me - "I don’t exactly believe in deities as such. I think they come from our minds. Archetypes, ways of identify or characterising the spirit/ magic/ life or whatever it is we sense around us. Ways our minds try to explain the unexplainable to us???"

I’m probably second guessing Nettle wrongly but it wasn’t all that long ago that you would have read posts about alters, magic, Shamanism, spells etc. I think it was either Teatimetreat or Drachenfach that had a hex on her handbag and her car. When the car was stolen it crashed and the thief was caught. I agree and would very much like to see more of the colourful side of Paganism back here. Quite right Ellinas. I do not understand how anyone can claim to be Pantheist (or even pantheist) and atheist at the same time even though the most prominent Pantheists do exactly that. As I’ve said elsewhere: why can’t they call themselves Panists. The prefix “pan” means everything and everywhere as in “pandemic”. The god’s name arose from the adjective so it wouldn’t necessarily mean a devotee of Pan. pee ess - it may be worth mentioning that there are a vast number of belief groups under the umbrella word Paganism. Druids Witches, Polytheist and Shaman are only a small part of what the greater picture of Paganism depicts. Dunno and don’t care are probably the biggest groups.

All the above, plus the impression of a preponderance of atheism is currently, as well as historically, inaccurate. Certainly, I am no atheist. I believe MS rejects the term as applicable to himself. Stonehugger, I think, recently said he had headed in that direction, but I've not seen the other resident atheists for a while. However, our ideas of deity are not the same, necessarily.

I talk to birds, usually crows. I also talk to the wind and trees (not normally out loud!) I have only been able to journey with my totem in trance though, maintaining a dialogue while in normal consciousness is a fleeting communication rather than a conversation.

I have always had a problem with the dichotomy between the teachings of Christ - love, forgiveness, charity etc, and the practices of the Church. For this, and other more personal reasons I do not feel comfortable in church today, while still in agreement with the message of love and peace. So while I don't identify as a Christian, I can still accept Christ as a teacher - as I also would accept Buddha, or find myself in agreement with Hindu sages. Wisdom is not confined to any particular set of beliefs or culture. Like a dandelion in the cracks of the pavement, it will out and thrive despite all we do to try to control it. But to return to the OP. I was in my teens when I began questioning the Church, and 20 when I was first initiated into Paganism. That was nearly 40 years ago now, but I'm still learning and evolving.

MS is right, both in his assessment that we are each the best and only authority on our own beliefs, and that in the past we had a very diverse set of members. But new points of view are always welcome, no matter whether fully formed or more intuitively grasping. I would argue that no matter how much we learn over however long; we are all still intuitively grasping at conclusions which remain just out of reach. Someone else putting their thoughts into words might just be the missing link in a logic train that helps shed light on our own understanding. Over the past 40 odd years my own Pagan beliefs have been adapted, added to and changed. I was taught very early on the premise that All Gods are One God, and all Goddesses are One Goddess. This has stuck with me. I suppose I think of deities as archetypes while also being powerful entities in their own right. Which are all facets of the Source which is beyond my understanding, which is why I think of them as discrete personalities. The Welsh Pantheon and Coelbren are the keys or touchstones or framework that I am familiar with and feel drawn to. It helps me to understand, in the same way that the Kabbalistic Tree of Life helps me get my head around the different realms and states of being. If that sounds contradictory and unnecessarily complicated, that's ok. I accept my understanding is imperfect. Yours will no doubt differ, and will be right for you based on your experience and intuition.

On the contrary - you are the world’s leading authority on Nettlism and Nettlery at all levels that you choose to explore. Naturally you are free to apply those (or your own) terms as you see fit. Your thoughts on the subjects vastly exceed the authority of any other metaphysician. You may well choose to consult others of course but hold onto your own core belief. Accept illumination but not immolation! i regret that we have given you the view that the site is science biased. We have had Witches of many sorts, Norse of many sorts, Druids of several sorts, various polytheisms, Religio Romana, atheists, a Voodunista and a Hellene, among many many others over the years. Of course there have been untold numbers of “unlabelled“ and “dunno” members. What you see is a transient current configuration as folk come and go. i have always held that were one to obtain a metaphysical balance and put into one pan all the saints, prophets, scholars, priests, gurus etc together with all that is written about beliefs, religion and faith and in the other pan stands a lone individual who is saying, ” I’m not sure but I think…..” Then the pointer on the balance remains central.

f!n? brilliant, lots of love. will post something soon as I'm now back for a while 😂😂😂

Lol points taken gentlemen. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I understand the terms on a surface level (dictionary definition level), but have not applied them to my way of perceiving and so do not understand them on a more deeper personal level. Well considering you are “old farts” on a bench lol I see that interactions have started to open things up a little. From intuitive leaps to seeking to understand more concrete concepts. For me I did not really come here with a stereotype of what a pagan would be. Possibly I thought a typical member here would be more orthodox in approach in one of the more well known polytheistic belief systems (e.g. the Norse pantheon). Or even one of the more Witch orientated systems (not sure what they would be?). But I find that the more prominent members approach things from a more concrete basis. Somewhat philosophical in approach and informed by science. Which is fascinating and possibly more atheistic in approach? That is why I was interested in learning what deities members recognised, if at all. One of the greatest books I have read is “Memories, dreams, reflections” by C.G. Jung. It is a biography of Jung and really allowed me to open myself up to my own interpretation. To accept that my way is not wrong (as opposed to a more acceptable orthodox system). And to trust in self for gaining inspiration into self. It allowed me to be me via Jungs example.

The significance of the old farts on the bench is that they are too engrossed in their own thinking and tend not to leave room for the kid with the ear buds. We need new thinking here in the Valley - before you get used to Valley-think! New thinking does not have to be anything like established thinking. Personal definitions, inspirations, doubts and conjectures are all most welcome. Maybe more so if they aren’t based on established thinking. (New old farts of all ages and odours are also welcome here!)

As I have said before, I knew on another forum, and maintain an occasional contact with even now, a person who was known to see himself as a Christian witch. Pagan? Well he was on a pagan forum and fitted in very well, and his concept of deity was not such as would be safely mentioned in many a Christian gathering. Us lot, learned? More like Moonsmith's favoured image of the "old farts" on a park bench. If the concepts have no use to you, I'd leave them be - otherwise you are in danger of joining the realm of "Old Fartdom"

Up to you Nettle but I wouldn’t bother if I were in your place. I think that your approach to your beliefs is where it needs to be right now. This thread will move on and fade away. I’ve done research because I give talks on belief and need to know from which end of my food tube I’m talking. There are always Pagans in the audience who know their stuff. What we believe is what we really believe - that might be as good a definition of Paganism as any. There is no “truth” except our own. Share what you will but never let it be a chore. I’m here in the Valley coz it’s fun😄

I am not as learned as most here when it comes to paganism and even religion. Hence why I do not usually get involved in such discussions. It’s not that I don’t see value in someone analysing their belief system and tagging the most appropriate label. It’s just for me it’s not that important. I don’t know what I am, and to be honest I am not really concerned. Yeah it assists in communication but it is not that important to me. At one time I know I understood the meanings of polytheism/monotheism/atheism etc but I have forgotten what they mean. They have not stuck. And as such they are not required for me to engage with my path. Lol I am getting older now and so find I have to purge information to allow for more information to be stored! Basically I empty my cup, keep what is useful to me and discard (“forget”) the rest. However I will endeavour to reacquaint myself with such concepts as they seem to be important to other members here and so may be worth more investigating and gaining different perspective.

I agree SH! Some Irish, Polish and Hispanic versions of Catholicism (Inc. some of their priests) are very like Polytheistic Paganism. Once Catholicism meets Voodun you’d be hard put to create a definition that divided the practice Catholicism from Paganism. That said, the Christians in question would object to being called Pagan as I suspect a Voodunista might object to being called Christian but I don’t know that. I’d keep definitions of religion well away from definitions of Paganism. I certainly don’t have a religion and I’m Pagan. The original use of the word Pagani - (those who lived out on the pagus; outside of citified civilisation = rustic) - distinguished between formal Roman polytheists who would be offended at being referred to as Pagani and the rustics who wouldn’t. I wonder if you can be Pagan and not know it? Is it behaviour related rather than belief based?

Is it that kind of word though? Where would one find an authority about what it was formally meant to comprise? A dictionary will say how the word is used in practice, so that's not prescriptive enough. An act of parliament? A contract? Speaking in my capacity as humpty dumpty, I could use it to mean something that's not like Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc. It's a statement of difference but also perhaps of exclusion. I've never been a Roman Catholic but I imagine their attitude to the Virgin Mary could be a bit borderline-pagan sometimes, so I could therefore imagine a vicar advising someone that their understanding is "a bit too pagan for comfort."

Paganism is formally meant to comprise the spiritual paths which don't derive from the revealed religions - Christianity, Judaism, Islam and others. It is an unfortunate definition as it doesn't help to specify anything about the content of a particular path which is counted as pagan. Pagan paths outnumber and outvary the Abrahamic religions. 21st Century paganism? Any and all beliefs and practices of folk who draw from non-Abrahamic ways.

I believe that it is a belief path and not a taught religion. I belive in the fact that what we can see, touch and feel gives our belief. we dont listen to books or preaching saying this was created by. I know that the mother provides all our neades, the farther provides the warthm and energy to grow, and the lady provides the yin and yang of difference balance in life o the planet. paganism is for an individual with an open mind and not a person to be taught or lectured.

Ay - respect is best displayed by questioning.

That’s why I find science so exciting. It knows that all its explanations are inadequate. I’ve been trying to find out when the last scientific law was pronounced. I don’t think there have been any since the 19th century. Whatever it was has probably been shown to be wrong or incomplete by now. Of course that is why metaphysics is fun too. It’s like theoretical physics but without the waste paper basket😄 The thought has just occurred to me that both archeology and metaphysics have the same response to the inexplicable - God did it. I may be a theist but I still say, screw the inscrutable, probe the improbable and f the ineffable. My Deity can take it. Bring it on!

Is there, perhaps, a certain irony in not knowing whether anything is inexplicable?

I was quoting @Veggie dancer but made a hash of it 🙂 But, yes, I do think that we use strategies to make sense of things that are, to us here and now, inexplicable. That's not about whether anything is in principle permanently inexplicable. It's about me making sense of the here and now.