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Caroline Voclain

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Magic(k)


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i feel like that also! hehe, but the god thing im done pondering on that it stumped me for about 3 years and then i just accepted that it could be possible.

 

O and btw i totally agree with your signiture fizzyclaire!! Sex is SO good hehe.

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Hmmmmm....

 

I have to say I dont think what you experienced was magic, I dont think it was premonition and I dont think that it was "six sense". I think it was you thinking "what the hell" having had enough of being picked on. The fact that they dont bother you has little to do with magic either other than the common knowledge that if you fight back with a bully they tend to leave you alone because they are at heart.. cowards.

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Hmmmmm....

 

I have to say I dont think what you experienced was magic, I dont think it was premonition and I dont think that it was "six sense". I think it was you thinking "what the hell" having had enough of being picked on. The fact that they dont bother you has little to do with magic either other than the common knowledge that if you fight back with a bully they tend to leave you alone because they are at heart.. cowards.

208008[/snapback]

 

Couldn't agree more! (If attacked, hospitalise at least one of them!)

However it was an epiphany, and made him realise there might be more to survival than all this "turning the other cheek" stuff. Which is a magical realisation whichever way one looks at it! :blink:

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Yeah, i know what you mean by the "what the hell " moment. But this felt very different. My anger is normally snap! then i'll do something which if i thought about it i would deal with in a very different way... It could be my anger developing but the feeling i got when the presence told me to hit him was very alien it didnt feel like me.

 

meh!

 

everyone share their Magick experiences, if you wish to ofc. I'm just interested :blink:

 

will,

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  • 3 weeks later...

Im not going to repeat all the questions again, they have been covered in far more elegant ways than I can manage.

But as someone who is intensely interested in magic but doesnt yet perform what I call major workings, I have some things for you to consider. As has been said, magic requires study, care, preperation, more often than not large amounts of focus and energy. So before you even begin to lookk down that path, consider magic, really sit take the time to think about it. You have made an important step by seeking info here, but you need more than just this.

Why do you wish to look into it? What brought it to your attention?

 

The biggest change magic has brought to my life (remembering that I dont perform it yet) is that it made me really consider myself. It opened up deep assesment of both 'the person I am' and the 'person I would like to be'.

It has caused me to face up to my limitations, my faults and to accept them (try to atleast!) to look at my fears and where they come from. There has been a long and ongoing search to find focus, clarity, understanding of myself and other people. What we do has a huge impact upon our lives and other peoples. It can bring Hope, Love and Light, or just as easily Hate, Fear and Mistrust.

 

It can be wonderful, also terrifying, it is not a journey that should be started lightly or recklessly, but I wish you luck an good sense in your search.

Blessings Ethe

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  • 4 years later...

What is it? / Where does the power come from?

 

Magick means many different things to many different people. As we have all different perceptions each person can only give their personal belief. One thing all Pagans believe is everything around us, what we see touch and smell is magickal.

 

From a stone on the shore to the most complex life on the planet, we are all charged with a force few can understand and fewer can experience. It is through focusing this force upon a singular goal that can make a spell successful.

 

How does it work?

 

How we harness and focus this force is where diversity within Pagan belief begins to become apparent. Wiccans have a very strict moral code that they will adhere to, believing any ritual that is for personal benefit or detrimental to another person will come back three fold upon the person performing the ritual.

 

I am not a Wiccan, though respect them very much. I believe there is no such thing as good magick or bad magick, black or white. Magick is neither good nor bad it simply is. It is the person performing the ritual that could be deemed good or bad.

 

How do you do it?

 

The belief in Pagan Magick because it is ‘cool’ will never bear fruit. Only through believing and concentrating that belief while allowing yourself to become a part of everything around you, to allow yourself to be immersed, lost in the universe, to become one with everything. Only then can you focus this energy to command a desired conclusion to a well put together ritual.

 

How do you learn how to do it?

 

To learn how to become a Witch, Wizard or whatever you wish to call a spell caster it would be best to first read books on the subject. Determine where you are in the multitude of varying Pagan beliefs, and then try to find others who are already in a coven. If you are invited to join, then you will begin to learn.

 

The ethics behind casting a spell for money depends on what form of Paganism you have chosen. Spell for reward does not sit well with Wiccans and as spells cast by Wiccans are only for good, they may be offended by being paid, though a donation for ingredients for the spell would usually be appreciated.

 

What do you do magic for? e..g can you do it for monetary gain etc?

 

As I have stated I am not a Wiccan, and so have no moral barrier to what I cast or if I am paid.

 

Is it Dangerous?

 

When you are attempting to command forces drawn from everything around you, there are things you should bear in mind. The world is full of things you can’t see as well things you can. Some of the conscious unseen forces are not happy about being used or commanded, and some are quite powerful. Without protection i.e. circle etc. There is the possibility of being possessed, or of being physically and mentally attacked by spirits.

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Wiccans have a very strict moral code that they will adhere to, believing any ritual that is for personal benefit or detrimental to another person will come back three fold upon the person performing the ritual.

 

sorry to disagree with you, hun, but it isn't necessarily true. some Wiccans may believe that, but others don't agree with the "threefold law" at all, and think it's bunkum. and yes, I'm talking about Gardnerian/Alexandrain Wiccans with lineage, not people who admire and follow wicca, but who have never been in an accepted coven and been initiated into a lineage.

 

Yes, Doreen created a beautiful rendition of "An it Harm None", but any tranlation of what that maeans is down to the individual.

 

I am not a Wiccan, though respect them very much. I believe there is no such thing as good magick or bad magick, black or white. Magick is neither good nor bad it simply is. It is the person performing the ritual that could be deemed good or bad.

 

Now, you see, I would agree that magic is neither black nor white, but it is the act - the working and its intent - that is good or bad, and not the person doing that working. I say that because I think that individual acts can be good or bad but that people are a mix of both.

 

Apolgies to those who think they've seen this before - they probably have. In the same way that Werewolf cut and pasted this bit into another thread, I've cut and pasted my response. :P

 

The belief in Pagan Magick because it is ‘cool’ will never bear fruit. Only through believing and concentrating that belief while allowing yourself to become a part of everything around you, to allow yourself to be immersed, lost in the universe, to become one with everything. Only then can you focus this energy to command a desired conclusion to a well put together ritual.

 

Now, you see, I don't do that. Focus and concentration, yes. But I'm not consciously (or unconsciously) thinking I'm part of everything around me. That's not my belief set. :) so i'd say you can use magic without that belief set, in the same way you can use magic without my belief set, of working with gods. But I do agree that focus and concentration is vital. but I'm not sure that's enough. (but that's a different can of worms! :P)

 

To learn how to become a Witch, Wizard or whatever you wish to call a spell caster it would be best to first read books on the subject. Determine where you are in the multitude of varying Pagan beliefs, and then try to find others who are already in a coven. If you are invited to join, then you will begin to learn.

 

I disagree. I'd say: read books and then throw them away. Go with what you feel in your guts. Draw your own correspondencies. Finding a coven is irrelevent unless you wish to be Wiccan in your practice. Most witches are not Wiccans. I am Heathen, as it happens. A lot of witches work alone. I also have to say that, when I was in a coven (and yes, it was the "real" Wiccan coven), I learned nothing. I learned far more alone. so finding your own style is fine. :)

 

The ethics behind casting a spell for money depends on what form of Paganism you have chosen. Spell for reward does not sit well with Wiccans and as spells cast by Wiccans are only for good, they may be offended by being paid, though a donation for ingredients for the spell would usually be appreciated.

 

Er...no. Wiccans will also use magic to harm others, if they feel it is merited.

 

When you are attempting to command forces drawn from everything around you, there are things you should bear in mind. The world is full of things you can’t see as well things you can. Some of the conscious unseen forces are not happy about being used or commanded, and some are quite powerful. Without protection i.e. circle etc. There is the possibility of being possessed, or of being physically and mentally attacked by spirits.

 

this is fair enough as a starting principle. but it is worth bearing in mind that the principle of working in a circle is from Wicca or ceremonial magic (or, more probably, wiccan via ceremonial magic ;) ). Not all witches use circles. You can use whatever seems right to you. I have used other shapes, or no shapes at all. Protection can be organised in other forms. :)

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To learn how to become a Witch, Wizard or whatever you wish to call a spell caster it would be best to first read books on the subject. Determine where you are in the multitude of varying Pagan beliefs, and then try to find others who are already in a coven. If you are invited to join, then you will begin to learn.

 

.

 

I also dont agree. I never used books to learn. I also never was part of a coven. Nor really had books to find to learn. they didnt really have them in waterstones back then. unless you count the little book of calm.

They only way to learn anything is to try. You cannot just learn to swim by just reading a book. You have to try it yourself. I have read many witchcraft books since and find myself laughing at some of them.

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As a Gardnerian Wiccan - and also occasionally a ritual magician - I would agree with Moonhuter and Stormy.

 

As for all pagans of whatever path, it is not possible to make statements about all Wiccans .... covens devlop their own effective ways of working and there is no creed that all Wiccans must follow. Those I work with do not subscribe to the three-fold return, nor the idea of karma and even have a less than orthodox translation of "an it harm none. do what ye will"! The patterns which were set down long ago by Gardner and Sanders, have been used, changed, adapted, re-written and whilst there are core practices eg the initiation rituals, maybe, the rest is subject to interpretation by those who work the magic ...............

 

Most books are useless when it comes to an experiential system where there are mysteries to encounter - you can't write them down as each person encounters the mystery in his or her own way .........

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm Wiccan, although I'm not a part of any particular tradition or coven (yet!). A lot of what I've learned has been through reading, but I've picked up quite a bit through experiencing stuff and creating meaningful systems and symbols to work with. So I guess you'd say I'm Eclectic, if titles are important. For me, magic is a way to influence the world by extending myself beyond my own physical boundaries, if that makes sense. I feel profoundly connected to nature, and a part of deity, and when I use spell magic (which isn't all that often... unless you count divination via Tarot as a sort of magic), it generally just involves me reaching out to the nature I am a part of and trying to influence an outcome or a path. I don't do the whole hexing and cursing thing, although I know some people do. I just tend to believe that nature generally sorts those kinds of things out. I think, however, that if there was a situation in which some greater good could be achieved by stopping someone damaging, I could see the value of a hex or a curse as a way of influencing or aiding nature's balance. The only problem I see with that is that I don't feel that I, in my twenty something years of sage wisdom, can really be an arbiter of justice. So I generally ask my gods to do as they see fit with such people instead!

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  • 5 months later...

 

From the comments that have been given from various people I would suggest that there aren’t any coherent rules or form to Wicca or any other Pagan belief. In fact it appears to be a bit of a free for all with everyone having a go. Some even suggesting they began using the craft on their own without even reading a book! After reading the messages one would conclude that Witchcraft or Wiccan is whatever you want it to be, which seems not only unstructured but abstract.

I am not Wiccan. What I practice I share with only an apprentice, so any inaccuracies I presented in previous messages were gleamed by others (who usually live in busses and go to Stonehenge a lot) who claimed to be practicing Wiccans (sword waving and all)

 

I read Tarot cards, use ritual magik, seek council with spirits and cast hexes. Perhaps I am not enslaved as someone with a highly developed moral code.

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From the comments that have been given from various people I would suggest that there aren’t any coherent rules or form to Wicca or any other Pagan belief. In fact it appears to be a bit of a free for all with everyone having a go. Some even suggesting they began using the craft on their own without even reading a book! After reading the messages one would conclude that Witchcraft or Wiccan is whatever you want it to be, which seems not only unstructured but abstract.

 

I'd have to take issue with this statement for several reasons:

(1) there are somet things that enable Wicca to be recignised as Wicca, as opposed to something else, say eclectic general paganism or Christianity. so there are some "rules"

(2) there are very definitely "rules" that govern and delineate different recon pagan religions, sucxh as Kemeticism, Religio Romana, Hellenismos, Heathenry, CR etc. these things are NOT free will with everyone having a go.

(3) I'm not sure what you mean by "the craft". Most people who have watched the film of that name, or read a lot of what is available in shops, seem to think that paganism = "the craft". Not all pagans are witches. Not all witches are pagans. Witchcraft doesn NOT equal Wicca, and, if "the craft" can be applied to anything, then it might be to Wicca, I suppose. I would have to ask the wiccans if they describe their religion that way.

 

I read Tarot cards, use ritual magik, seek council with spirits and cast hexes. Perhaps I am not enslaved as someone with a highly developed moral code.

 

Are you saying you do not possess a highly developed moral code? Or that those with such will all believe the same things? Why would having such a thing make one "enslaved"? :o_headscratch:

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. Some even suggesting they began using the craft on their own without even reading a book!

 

It's outrageous isn't it? I feel sure there must be some law against it somewhere :D

 

After reading the messages one would conclude that Witchcraft or Wiccan is whatever you want it to be, which seems not only unstructured but abstract.

 

Not sure I'd agree with that: very few of the posters above are actually Wiccan. What you're seeing is a plethora of replies from Pagans of all paths, not just Wiccan, which would account for the wide range of opinions. :)

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Being Wiccan is neither unstructured nor abstract. Witchcraft is definitely a fluid thing that is shaped by the practitioner but it's only raw chaos in certain circumstances.

 

But don't take it from me, I'm one of the great under-read.

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I discovered I was a witch some years before I took Wiccan initiation in the Gardnerian craft. Wicca and witchcraft, as Moonhunter has said, are NOT interchangeable descriptions of what occurs! There are rules within the initiatory traditions and guidelines and so on - there is also freedom for personal spiritual development within the traditions, should an initiate wish to take that path. That is not to say that "it is whatever you want it to be .." When practising with others, in order to progress and develop, to have effective magic and so on, you need to be like-minded and work together for whatever is the common purpose of that working ....

 

There are many who practice wiccan-like ritual and take up wiccan-like ideas, such as a Book of Shadows and magic spells. Much has been put into the public domain and, therefore, it is not difficult to create wiccan-like workings and so on. Such was never sufficient for me! In the early days as a witch, I sought out - with some difficulty, I might add - people who practice witchcraft and were willing to teach me. There were few books in those days and those that there were, did not divulge the sort of information that is readily available now! So, you might say, Werewolf, by your interpretation, that I, a witch for 30 years and a Wiccan for 25 years, am one of those you put down by suggesting I did not read a book! Down the years, I have read many books and studied in great detail. I have run a coven for 15 years and initiated many into the craft .... that is not to boast but to show you that you are in error in the statements you make in your posts, about witches, Wicca and the practice or witchcraft.

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