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Guest DVE

A Beginners Guide To Voodoo?

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Guest Crow

I've been away for a couple of days so my reponses to the latest developments on this thread may take several posts, but I'll start with the one that seems to be causing most controversy.

 

I really can't agree with your suggestion that you need to be African (paraphrased) to practice Vodou, Rising Hero. For one thing, you might not be aware that a significant number of the Loa are in fact white or mixed race. Maman Brigitte, for example is considered by many practitioners as another manifestation of the goddess Brigid, and there is, to my mind, sound historical reasoning behind this. Erzulie Freda is white. La Sirene and Agwe are both mixed race - actually La Sirene is a mermaid so technically she isn't human at all - and there are another couple of Loa who manifest as upper class white French people. A fair few of them don't even take human form; like Damballah the snake or Aida the rainbow. Vodou doesn't just have its roots in African religion; it has many many influences.

 

Besides, do you honestly think the Loa are bound by such small human limitations as geography? The Loa embody huge natural forces like love, beauty, the ocean, health, sexuality, art or death. No matter where you are from, these forces affect your life by the simple virtue of being human.

 

Perhaps the simplest and most obvious argument against what you're saying is that magic done in this country under the patronage of the Loa works. I've seen candles light themselves in front of me, I've seen food offerings left out overnight have a large bitemark appear in them the next morning, I've seen pieces of jewellry desired by a certain Loa vanish from where they've been laid aside on one side of a room and reappear in offering plates several feet away and I've seen people fall possessed to the floor in uncontrollable fits of laughter with voices that were not their own only to recover minutes later. I know these things happened because I saw them with my own eyes, and more importantly, I felt the presence of the Loa.

 

Vodou is effective and alive - and it doesn't matter where you live; you can access its energy and its power.

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Guest Tas Mania

Now THAT Crow, is like a breath of feresh air! Spoken like a true believer - because seeing IS believing! :)

 

Vodou isn't my thing, but I am always of the view: "each to their own", also "suck it and see"! :)

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Guest DVE

Thanks for a well laid out and thoughtful post Crow :)

 

Regards,

 

DVE, BB

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fizzyclare1

I agree, I am glad you posted something, crow. I am not into voodoo (not sure what I am into actually - but that's another story :) ).

 

I found what you said to be enlightening. thank you

 

fizz

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Guest Rising Hero
I've been away for a couple of days so my reponses to the latest developments on this thread may take several posts, but I'll start with the one that seems to be causing most controversy.

 

I really can't agree with your suggestion that you need to be African (paraphrased) to practice Vodou, Rising Hero. For one thing, you might not be aware that a significant number of the Loa are in fact white or mixed race. Maman Brigitte, for example is considered by many practitioners as another manifestation of the goddess Brigid, and there is, to my mind, sound historical reasoning behind this. Erzulie Freda is white. La Sirene and Agwe are both mixed race - actually La Sirene is a mermaid so technically she isn't human at all - and there are another couple of Loa who manifest as upper class white French people. A fair few of them don't even take human form; like Damballah the snake or Aida the rainbow. Vodou doesn't just have its roots in African religion; it has many many influences.

 

Besides, do you honestly think the Loa are bound by such small human limitations as geography? The Loa embody huge natural forces like love, beauty, the ocean, health, sexuality, art or death. No matter where you are from, these forces affect your life by the simple virtue of being human.

 

Perhaps the simplest and most obvious argument against what you're saying is that magic done in this country under the patronage of the Loa works.  I've seen candles light themselves in front of me, I've seen food offerings left out overnight have a large bitemark appear in them the next morning, I've seen pieces of jewellry desired by a certain Loa vanish from where they've been laid aside on one side of a room and reappear in offering plates several feet away and I've seen people fall possessed to the floor in uncontrollable fits of laughter with voices that were not their own only to recover minutes later. I know these things happened because I saw them with my own eyes, and more importantly, I felt the presence of the Loa.

 

Vodou is effective and alive - and it doesn't matter where you live; you can access its energy and its power.

201107[/snapback]

I was trying to learn about Voodoo practice but ended up looking into its origins.Sorry.You dont need to convince me of your experiences as I dont desire to challenge them.

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Guest Clamhan
Nothing was written.The main tenets come from New Age sources such as the neo-pagan Druid Orders.I know as I was once in there

 

There are numerous golden threads (or tenets) which shine through in mythology and from prehistory. Its these tenets which are central to Druidry today. I dont doubt that most of the development of modern day Druidry has occured in the renaissance period but this doesnt discount the Druids existence prior to this time.

 

To suggest that Druids never existed outside of the imagination of roman writers is a little hard to understand to be honest. Your suggestion seems to ignore the work of Tacitus, who if your theory is correct, just invented the Druid caste!

 

By far his accounts of the Druids were highly detailed, he goes into such detail about the structure of the Druids, including the three grades and the roles of those grades. Whilst some of his accounts smack of roman propaganda, there doesnt seem to be much reason to 'invent' the whole caste itself.

 

That being said, you indicate that you have some experience of these things and I would value your viewpoint if you could substantiate your suggestion a little more.

 

Peace fella

 

Gary /|\

Edited by Clamhan

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Guest Herneoakshield
Your suggestion seems to ignore the work of Tacitus, who if your theory is correct, just invented the Druid caste!

 

By far his accounts of the Druids were highly detailed, he goes into such detail about the structure of the Druids, including the three grades and the roles of those grades. Whilst some of his accounts smack of roman propaganda, there doesnt seem to be much reason to 'invent' the whole caste itself.

 

I just want to pick up on this little bit here, just because something is written and described in detail doesn't mean it is true. I mean look at Tolkien's Middle Earth. He created two or more entire workable languages both spoken and written, he created a complete history of the world and it's creation for the Lord of the Rings story. Incredible detail went into describing the history and lives of each of the peoples of middle earth, their Rulers, the lifestyles and history for each of the civilisations. (Men, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Uruk kai, Haradrim, Ents etc etc) not many authors have come close to that since, (Some have tried but they never quite reach the level of detail provided by Tolkien) yet it isn't true, it is all fantasy born of his imagination.

 

What I am trying to say is we can't assume something is truth because it is very detailed.

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Guest Crow
Thanks for the posts, Crow, that was really interesting.  I know very little about Vodou and the Caribbean traditions.  I was watching a programme about samba  on TV the other night and it mentioned that the samba rhythm originates from dumming rhythms used to call the spiritis in Candomble, which sounded not dissimilar to Vodou in some respects.  Are the two linked or are they completely separate traditions?  Apologies for my ignorance, but it as fascinating and the drumming was terrific.

 

Frey

200853[/snapback]

 

Hi Freydis,

 

Brazillian Samba drumming is great, isn't it? I did a course with a local group called Samba Galez a couple of years ago and there's no denying the power of a huge battery of drums playing so loudly you can feel the reverberations in your chest.

 

You're quite right, there is a fair amount of crossover between Candomble and samba drum patterns. I remember one day we were learning a particular rhythm which for some reason I found incredibly infectious - it was as if there was a new energy running through me and I clearly felt the presence of a spirit I'd never encountered before. On talking to the class teacher later I found out that he was a practitioner of Candomble and we'd atually been playing a rhythm designed to call the Orisha Shango.

 

Candomble is basically the Brazillian variant of Vodou. There are distinct similarities, as you've said, and there's some crossover in the pantheon as well, but Candomble, like the Cuban variant known as Santeria has fewer influences. While Vodou is a big melting pot of traditions including African, Native American, and European beliefs, and while New Orleans Voodoo adds even more influences like American folk magic to the mix, Candomble tends to stick more closely to its African and Brazillian roots.

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Guest Rising Hero
Your suggestion seems to ignore the work of Tacitus, who if your theory is correct, just invented the Druid caste!

 

By far his accounts of the Druids were highly detailed, he goes into such detail about the structure of the Druids, including the three grades and the roles of those grades. Whilst some of his accounts smack of roman propaganda, there doesnt seem to be much reason to 'invent' the whole caste itself.

 

I just want to pick up on this little bit here, just because something is written and described in detail doesn't mean it is true. I mean look at Tolkien's Middle Earth. He created two or more entire workable languages both spoken and written, he created a complete history of the world and it's creation for the Lord of the Rings story. Incredible detail went into describing the history and lives of each of the peoples of middle earth, their Rulers, the lifestyles and history for each of the civilisations. (Men, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Uruk kai, Haradrim, Ents etc etc) not many authors have come close to that since, (Some have tried but they never quite reach the level of detail provided by Tolkien) yet it isn't true, it is all fantasy born of his imagination.

 

What I am trying to say is we can't assume something is truth because it is very detailed.

201444[/snapback]

Exactly.The arguements against Druidry as an historically acceptable religion outside of Roman writings are well established Gary.It seems fruitless to renew them here.But I find interest in what HOS says as Tolkien might also be accredited with influencing modern heathenry and other pagan style systems in their perception of the unseen worlds.Thats what it looks like from the outside.

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Moonhunter
But I find interest in what HOS says as Tolkien might also be accredited with influencing modern heathenry and other pagan style systems in their perception of the unseen worlds.Thats what it looks like from the outside.

201489[/snapback]

 

Absolutely. Professor Tolkien and his friend, Professor Lewis obviously fell hook, line and sinker for the whole Christian conspiracy. Shame, really.

 

Have some popcorn. :P

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Guest Rising Hero
But I find interest in what HOS says as Tolkien might also be accredited with influencing modern heathenry and other pagan style systems in their perception of the unseen worlds.Thats what it looks like from the outside.

201489[/snapback]

 

Absolutely. Professor Tolkien and his friend, Professor Lewis obviously fell hook, line and sinker for the whole Christian conspiracy. Shame, really.

 

Have some popcorn. :P

201560[/snapback]

Nice one Ta I will!

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Guest DVE

It's me, back again.

 

Out of curiousity, could anyone point me in the direction of where I can find candle anointing oils and some root (I already have Valerian root and Hi John - Got my eye on lucky hand and bats head too), but I need other bits and pieces in order to get some more stuff for the altar and working together. Also, the black and red candles (red inside, black outside). I think I can find most of the other stuff myself, with the possible exception of "witches salt".

 

Thanks in advance.

 

DVE, BB

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Guest natures spirit
It's me, back again.

 

Out of curiousity, could anyone point me in the direction of where I can find candle anointing oils and some root (I already have Valerian root and Hi John - Got my eye on lucky hand and bats head too), but I need other bits and pieces in order to get some more stuff for the altar and working together. Also, the black and red candles (red inside, black outside). I think I can find most of the other stuff myself, with the possible exception of "witches salt".

 

Thanks in advance.

 

DVE, BB

201895[/snapback]

 

 

Ok, going to show real ignorance here and I don't care...what do you need all that stuff for exactly????? Why do you "" witches Salt...do you not know what it :o_beer: ;) is? :ph34r:

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Guest Tas Mania

What NS says! But if I felt I "needed" something, then I would either make it, go pluck it or dig it up, or improvise. Shop sourced stuff? Nah - no ta.

 

Surely a natural based Path uses natural stuff instead of being pernickity about particulars? Seems odd to me.

 

But - in response to your request: the most obvious way to get a coating of a different colour on a candle would be to use a water bath to melt one of outer colour and dip inner colour one in it a few times. If it really matters that much. :D

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Guest natures spirit
What NS says! But if I felt I "needed" something, then I would either make it, go pluck it or dig it up, or improvise. Shop sourced stuff? Nah - no ta.

 

Surely a natural based Path uses natural stuff instead of being pernickity about particulars? Seems odd to me.

 

But - in response to your request: the most obvious way to get a coating of a different colour on a candle would be to use a water bath to melt one of outer colour and dip inner colour one in it a few times. If it really matters that much. :D

201914[/snapback]

 

presactly...candles are very easy to make...can use old ones or ones bought in shops and just melt em down in a tin submerged in boiling water...just need a wick to dip in and out...what I'm interested in, from a voodoo/ou point of view is the lucky hand/bats head and Witches Salt...and if they know what Witches Salt is..why would they need to buy it..lmao :D

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Guest DVE
What NS says! But if I felt I "needed" something, then I would either make it, go pluck it or dig it up, or improvise. Shop sourced stuff? Nah - no ta.

 

Surely a natural based Path uses natural stuff instead of being pernickity about particulars? Seems odd to me.

 

But - in response to your request: the most obvious way to get a coating of a different colour on a candle would be to use a water bath to melt one of outer colour and dip inner colour one in it a few times. If it really matters that much. :D

201914[/snapback]

 

presactly...candles are very easy to make...can use old ones or ones bought in shops and just melt em down in a tin submerged in boiling water...just need a wick to dip in and out...what I'm interested in, from a voodoo/ou point of view is the lucky hand/bats head and Witches Salt...and if they know what Witches Salt is..why would they need to buy it..lmao :D

201915[/snapback]

 

Thanks for your response. I can see what you are getting at.

 

Witches salt is apparently a black type of salt? I may be corrected, but how do you "make" black salt? The book I've been studying from doesn't say what it consists of, but it isn't regular salt - It does explain what Holy Water consists of however, so I can do that :lol:. It's also been mentioned that Witch's salt is Sea Salt, but I would like confirmation of which is right or wrong.

 

As for making candles - I have never done them - And I wouldn't mind buying my first lot for the simple reason that I can practise making my own afterwards, and if I mess up, still have candles to spare! I also believe candle making is something where practise really does make perfect, and at the moment, it is a little too hectic and cramped to practise and/or make a mess.

 

As for the bats head/lucky hand, they're used in rituals for different types of workings and mojo bags. In similar ways as followers of other paths use herbs etc. to work their spells.

 

Regards,

 

DVE, BB

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Guest Crow

Hi DVE,

 

There's a fabulous perfume company called the Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab, which has a subset of oils designed for use in hoodoo. I can definitely recommend their High John the Conqueror oil! Look in the "Conjure Bag" section of the Bewitching Brews category, at the bottom of this page. http://www.blackphoenixalchemylab.com/bb.html They also have a sister company at www.twilightalchemylab.com which specialises in magical oils. Unfortunately because they make their oils freshly every couple of weeks their shipping time is very slow (about a month to the UK) but if you want oils more quickly you can always sign up to their forum and see if anyone is selling second-hand.

 

You could also try www.neworleansmistic.com They have a wonderful selection of herbs, candles, powders and oils.

 

For pure hoodoo supplies there's the Lucky Mojo company; they have a massive site full of information on hoodoo in theory and practice, and a shop where you can buy just about everything you'd ever need to practice Hoodoo. I believe they have black salt too.

 

I've just found this ebay seller too - http://stores.ebay.com/The-HooDoo-Homemake...657267QQfrsrcZ1

 

Regarding substituion and improvisation in hoodoo spells; I'd actually argue that if you're planning to make a study of hoodoo itself then it's important to stick to established recipes, at least when first starting out, the reason being tha Hoodoo is a folk tradition with a long oral history and that I think it's important to learn about it in its original form before branching out and putting your own stamp on its magical practice.

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Guest Quasizoid

Hiya Crow,

 

I'm glad to see this topic's back on track. I've been meaning to ask you for the longest time; what exactly is a "Mojo Hand"? Although I spent a fair amount of time in the Afro-American community of Halifax (Nova Scotia), I never did get around to figuring that one out. Their leanings were largely Jamaican.

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Guest DVE

Thanks again Crow. Can you confirm that black salt is witch's salt for me, or is sea salt right?

 

Quasizoid - The "Mojo bags" are like little talismans which you put your ingredients in for whatever workings you are practising, and then usually you carry them around with you, bury them, etc. Whatever the spell tells you really.

 

The lucky hand root is from a plant found in Mexico, and is used in your workings, usually for luck, success, gambling, etc. Different roots are used for different things, I believe the most common root used is Hi John the Conqueror.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Regards,

 

DVE, BB

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Guest Quasizoid
Thanks again Crow. Can you confirm that black salt is witch's salt for me, or is sea salt right?

 

Quasizoid - The "Mojo bags" are like little talismans which you put your ingredients in for whatever workings you are practising, and then usually you carry them around with you, bury them, etc. Whatever the spell tells you really.

 

The lucky hand root is from a plant found in Mexico, and is used in your workings, usually for luck, success, gambling, etc. Different roots are used for different things, I believe the most common root used is Hi John the Conqueror.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Regards,

 

DVE, BB

202062[/snapback]

 

So in other words "mojo hand" is actually this lucky hand root? Tis okay, I know what the bags are but not the content.

Edited by Quasizoid

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Guest DVE

As far as I'm aware, it just seems to be another name for mojo bag, so it may or may not include the lucky hand root.

 

Regards,

 

DVE, BB

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Guest Herneoakshield

The 'mojo hand' is also one of the names given to the bag from my understanding. along with many other names such as Nation Sack (women only that one) Toby, jomo gris gris etc.

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fizzyclare1

I am curious, I would like to be a little more informed about hoodoo, are there any websites you would recommend to read, so I can follow the conversation a little better.

 

thanx, fizz

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Guest Herneoakshield
I am curious, I would like to be a little more informed about hoodoo, are there any websites you would recommend to read, so I can follow the conversation a little better.

 

thanx, fizz

202086[/snapback]

 

I think by far the best known source on the net for Hoodoo info is Lucky Mojo Cat Yronwode's site. you can find the Hoodoo In Theory and Practice Pages at http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html Do check out the rest of the site though as there is lots of info :huh:

Edited to get rid of the typos.

Edited by Herneoakshield

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Guest DVE

I think Afrikaworld.net was recommended to me by someone on here, but it would depend on what part you would be interested in. By you saying Hoodoo, I would think you mean the New Orleans practising? A good book I have found is called "Voodoo and Afro-Caribbean Paganism" and is available really cheaply on Amazon - Well worth investing in, as it goes over Haitian Vodou, New Orleans, as well as other variations.

 

Regards,

 

DVE, BB

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fizzyclare1

thanx, fizz

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Guest Quasizoid
The 'mojo hand' is also one of the names given to the bag from my understanding. along with many other names such as Nation Sack (women only that one) Toby, jomo gris gris etc.

202071[/snapback]

 

Yes, gris gris I'm familiar with, which seems more a Caribbean thing. It was only on a few occasions I heard the "mojo hand" reference from a local jazz musician. Mind you, that was usually when he was rolling something other than tobacco. :huh:

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Guest Quasizoid

Thanks Herne, checked out the link. Came across the term "Juju". Heh, my sister-in-law uses that one alot in place of "hocum". She grew up in Johannesburg, South Africa. :huh:

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Guest Crow
Thanks again Crow. Can you confirm that black salt is witch's salt for me, or is sea salt right?

 

202062[/snapback]

 

As far as I'm aware, black salt and witches salt are the same thing, yes.

 

I second the recommendation for Cat Ywronde's website! It's an amazingly large encyclopaedia of hoodoo knowledge. I'm planning to take her Hoodoo course in the new year, actually.

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