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Still Confused By The God Thing


Guest morbidia
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God & Goddess- male and female engergys of *everything*

Both nature and us

 

I wouldnt say I see them as being 1 single energy with 2 halfs, more 2 seperate energys that run along side each other

 

Im not sure about pantheons, names have came to be in meditation but id like futher proof that they are *my* deities if you know what I mean, although I have always been drawn to the Celtic pantheons

 

hope that made some sort of sense and helped you a little :)

 

x

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Indeed Tas, I quite agree.  I have no use for moral ideology, be they kabbalistic or otherwise-  let alone anything contrived by Alleister Crowley's new age prefabrications  of ancient mysticism...not to mention the lack of any real cultural identity. From what I have seen here on UKP, there seems more a general desire to rediscover one's own more personal connections- in more local forms of ancestral deity or land wight.  Namely rediscover one's indigenous roots from the bog standard upwards.  I think this is what makes the difference between truly understanding nature and expecting things to come hermetically sealed with all the contents properly marked on a fancy label. To say those who do not believe in deities are not pagan, obviously has no experience with animism let alone hedgewitchery.  While atheism is not a religion, any magical or shamanic practices involved are unquestionably spiritual- which I'm sure is sufficient enough to describe these as pagan. As for dynamic equilibrium in the continuum, there is more to matter and energy than just positive and negative charge, and strange forces are not to be confused with any divine absolute.  This is not just a law of physics but something you learn very quickly in the wilderness.  Nature does not aspire to be so predictable, thus I much prefer to rely on its more cunning designs; namely instinct.  :)

208620[/snapback]

 

that makes sense to me on soooooo many levels.....

 

fizz

Edited by fizzyclare1
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I am totally with you all on your comments and ways of shamanically working with nature in a spiritual way even atheistic paganism. I personally find it easier to see these forces etc using a telesmanic image. (Call it a god etc if you like)

I think we are all basically doing the same stuff but just have a differance on the way we are trying to explain the wow factor of it all.

I have to agree with you there Quasizoid regarding Thelemic moral ideology and the rest. (I just dislike misquotes wherever it is from).

As for dynamic equalibrium I think in nature it has to shift naturally about to cause change and the unpredictability of it all.

We all have a very personal relationship with nature I would presume and that is why we are all on this forum.

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The answer to the first part of your question, is a very big NO and because of that the second part, is totally irrelevant.

Let me say that I (and a few others here, including yourself by the sound of it) are Atheists, we do not accept, believe in, recognise, feel a need for or honor ANY gods / goddesses, divine creatures or what ever the religionist pagan folks may wish to call their pet deities.

As atheists, we are still pagans just the same as those pagans who wish to believe in one or more deities. The only difference being that as atheist pagans we simply honor nature (earth, water, plants, sun, moon etc.) directly, rather than wasting time going through a middle man / agent so to speak.

As an atheist pagan I (and I know most others, though not all) have no need for an altar with all the usual man made trappings like candles, incense, carved figures, runes, etc. Our altar, if one cares to look upon it as such, is the Earth with its cover of grass and decorated with plants, trees, birds and animals. We look around us and see NATURE in all its various aspects, sometimes peaceful sometimes extremely violent.

Every time we take a drink of water or eat food we quietly give thanks to the Earth for providing for our needs. We see the sun and give thanks for its warmth and light & look at the moon and stars and again offer thanks for their comforting light and security.

Like the god / goddess following pagans, we atheist pagans follow the cycles of nature, but again, most atheist pagans simply and quietly offer their thanks to each season in turn, without partaking in loud and at times seemingly garish and unnecessary private and public displays and rituals. In all the years I have followed my pagan journey, I have never once felt a need to take any part in a ritual. I stand aside, do my own thing and respect (though it may not seem that way at times on here, when I have a go at the God botherers biggrin.gif ) other peoples right to hold rituals and honor their deities, if that is what they wish to do. On more than one occasion I have felt duty bound, when pagan friends have been holding their rituals in public places, to speak to non-pagan bystanders and request that they show due respect for what is taking place.

 

Great answers there Pasher...answered a lot of my own questions there in once post, what your saying here rings very true with me, and makes sense of loads of things in my head (hard to do at the best of times :o_wave: ) Thanks!! ;)

 

~ H ~

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dear Morbidia,

I have problems too, after studying books and stuff for over 13yrs, Ive tried gods and goddesses, and they dont gell with me at all.

 

I use nature, where some would say moon, or Luna is Diana, or another name, I would look at her and say disk of light in sky.

 

I sing and dance to her and pray to her, and moongaze at ehr reflection in my two ponds, but I dont dress her in mortal clothing, or give her any attributes.

 

wot works for some, dont for others, so go with the flow and use wot works for you...... like if it dont work, dont continue doing it.

 

I read so many books on, do this, or do that, say this or say that, and when i try it, its not my words, or my feelings, so it wont work for me.

 

If a god or goddess is right for you theyw ill come and make themselves manifest in your dreams firstly and then in your life.... be earnest and theyw ill show themselves, they do like remaining hidden, under all that christianity, its hard for me to undestrand the concept of any god at all!

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I believe that all the gods and dieties are all inside mother earth and a appart of her, when casting spells (although i have not done so yet) i will call upon certian gods, which to me i imagine come from mother earth in the forum of different energys :o_wink2:

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thanks everyone for your replies, (especially Pasher,what you wrote really made sense to me and is exactly how i live my life)it has helped a great deal,i am cutting out the middle men from now on :(

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my questions are these ,

do i have to believe in some sort of god to be callled a pagan ?

how do i know who it is?

208480[/snapback]

The answer to the first part of your question, is a very big NO and because of that the second part, is totally irrelevant.

Let me say that I (and a few others here, including yourself by the sound of it) are Atheists, we do not accept, believe in, recognise, feel a need for or honor ANY gods / goddesses, divine creatures or what ever the religionist pagan folks may wish to call their pet deities.

As atheists, we are still pagans just the same as those pagans who wish to believe in one or more deities. The only difference being that as atheist pagans we simply honor nature (earth, water, plants, sun, moon etc.) directly, rather than wasting time going through a middle man / agent so to speak.

As an atheist pagan I (and I know most others, though not all) have no need for an altar with all the usual man made trappings like candles, incense, carved figures, runes, etc. Our altar, if one cares to look upon it as such, is the Earth with its cover of grass and decorated with plants, trees, birds and animals. We look around us and see NATURE in all its various aspects, sometimes peaceful sometimes extremely violent.

Every time we take a drink of water or eat food we quietly give thanks to the Earth for providing for our needs. We see the sun and give thanks for its warmth and light & look at the moon and stars and again offer thanks for their comforting light and security.

Like the god / goddess following pagans, we atheist pagans follow the cycles of nature, but again, most atheist pagans simply and quietly offer their thanks to each season in turn, without partaking in loud and at times seemingly garish and unnecessary private and public displays and rituals. In all the years I have followed my pagan journey, I have never once felt a need to take any part in a ritual. I stand aside, do my own thing and respect (though it may not seem that way at times on here, when I have a go at the God botherers :D ) other peoples right to hold rituals and honor their deities, if that is what they wish to do. On more than one occasion I have felt duty bound, when pagan friends have been holding their rituals in public places, to speak to non-pagan bystanders and request that they show due respect for what is taking place.

208555[/snapback]

 

Count me in with the athiest crew, as well.

 

x

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  • 3 months later...
my questions are these ,

do i have to believe in some sort of god to be callled a pagan ?

how do i know who it is?

208480[/snapback]

The answer to the first part of your question, is a very big NO and because of that the second part, is totally irrelevant.

Let me say that I (and a few others here, including yourself by the sound of it) are Atheists, we do not accept, believe in, recognise, feel a need for or honor ANY gods / goddesses, divine creatures or what ever the religionist pagan folks may wish to call their pet deities.

As atheists, we are still pagans just the same as those pagans who wish to believe in one or more deities. The only difference being that as atheist pagans we simply honor nature (earth, water, plants, sun, moon etc.) directly, rather than wasting time going through a middle man / agent so to speak.

As an atheist pagan I (and I know most others, though not all) have no need for an altar with all the usual man made trappings like candles, incense, carved figures, runes, etc. Our altar, if one cares to look upon it as such, is the Earth with its cover of grass and decorated with plants, trees, birds and animals. We look around us and see NATURE in all its various aspects, sometimes peaceful sometimes extremely violent.

Every time we take a drink of water or eat food we quietly give thanks to the Earth for providing for our needs. We see the sun and give thanks for its warmth and light & look at the moon and stars and again offer thanks for their comforting light and security.

Like the god / goddess following pagans, we atheist pagans follow the cycles of nature, but again, most atheist pagans simply and quietly offer their thanks to each season in turn, without partaking in loud and at times seemingly garish and unnecessary private and public displays and rituals. In all the years I have followed my pagan journey, I have never once felt a need to take any part in a ritual. I stand aside, do my own thing and respect (though it may not seem that way at times on here, when I have a go at the God botherers :o ) other peoples right to hold rituals and honor their deities, if that is what they wish to do. On more than one occasion I have felt duty bound, when pagan friends have been holding their rituals in public places, to speak to non-pagan bystanders and request that they show due respect for what is taking place.

208555[/snapback]

 

 

Wow. That's pretty much me, as well. :) except the rare participation in something to do with samhain or the winter solstice.

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I dont think its necessary to beleive in Deities to be a Pagan! It may help though!

I personally dont really work with any, I tend to work more with Nature Spirits of various types.

There are a few Deities I would consider in this sort of Nature Spirit vein though and I sometimes work with them.

I generally tend to feel these sorts of things are a sort of Neutral Universal Energy, which we define and give shape and meaning to.

Thats not to say they dont exist in their own right, just that it is easier for all involved to have a recognisable Template of some sort through which to communicate!

So where a Christian may see an Arch Angel Michael for example, I may see Lugh, either way it will have meaning for us both!

I may well end up contradicting myself here! Im good at that! Im happy to see it from several angles!

I guess you could say 'did the God/dess create us or did we create them?'. :blink:

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I dont think its necessary to beleive in Deities to be a Pagan! It may help though!

I personally dont really work with any, I tend to work more with Nature Spirits of various types.

There are a few Deities I would consider in this sort of Nature Spirit vein though and I sometimes work with them.

I generally tend to feel these sorts of things are a sort of Neutral Universal Energy, which we define and give shape and meaning to.

Thats not to say they dont exist in their own right, just that it is easier for all involved to have a recognisable Template of some sort through which to communicate!

So where a Christian may see an Arch Angel Michael for example, I may see Lugh, either way it will have meaning for us both!

I may well end up contradicting myself here! Im good at that! Im happy to see it from several angles!

I guess you could say 'did the God/dess create us or did we create them?'. :blink:

232623[/snapback]

 

In my own path (heathenry) the landwights (and ancestors) are more important to me than the gods because they have a more immediate impact on my daily life than the gods do (although saying that when Odin comes crashing into you daily routine you tend to sit up and take notice :lol: )

 

Now, I don't believe in the gods being universal energy (anymore than we are anyway) or aspects of some nameless deity. And I don't believe they created us anymore than we created them - my own belief is they evolved naturally just as we did.

 

But to answer the question I don't think it is important or necessary to believe or acknowledge the gods to be a pagan - it depends on what you want out of it, what your own personal beliefs are and whether the gods leave you alone!

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I dont think its necessary to beleive in Deities to be a Pagan! It may help though!

I personally dont really work with any, I tend to work more with Nature Spirits of various types.

There are a few Deities I would consider in this sort of Nature Spirit vein though and I sometimes work with them.

I generally tend to feel these sorts of things are a sort of Neutral Universal Energy, which we define and give shape and meaning to.

Thats not to say they dont exist in their own right, just that it is easier for all involved to have a recognisable Template of some sort through which to communicate!

So where a Christian may see an Arch Angel Michael for example, I may see Lugh, either way it will have meaning for us both!

I may well end up contradicting myself here! Im good at that! Im happy to see it from several angles!

I guess you could say 'did the God/dess create us or did we create them?'. :)

232623[/snapback]

t

 

In my own path (heathenry) the landwights (and ancestors) are more important to me than the gods because they have a more immediate impact on my daily life than the gods do (although saying that when Odin comes crashing into you daily routine you tend to sit up and take notice :lol: )

 

Now, I don't believe in the gods being universal energy (anymore than we are anyway) or aspects of some nameless deity. And I don't believe they created us anymore than we created them - my own belief is they evolved naturally just as we did.

 

But to answer the question I don't think it is important or necessary to believe or acknowledge the gods to be a pagan - it depends on what you want out of it, what your own personal beliefs are and whether the gods leave you alone!

232644[/snapback]

that make sense to me ,i have been looking into heathenry and the idea of landwights is the closest i have come so far to something to believe in , honouring our ancesters appeals to me,i am open to the idea of acknowledging the gods ,i just havent had anything happen that points me in that direction...yet :)

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that make sense to me ,i have been looking into heathenry and  the idea of landwights is the closest i have come so far to something to believe in ,  honouring our ancesters appeals to me,i am open to the idea of acknowledging the gods ,i just havent had anything happen that points me in that direction...yet :)

232848[/snapback]

 

Heatherny is well worth exploring-I've found lots of value from it. :lol:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yeh, the gods are there.Give them time and they will get in contact with you, unless of course they'er on holiday. :)

 

 

 

im meandering around the site picking up interesting info that has been very helpful,the only problem i have is the belief in a god of any sort

 

i come from a completley non religious background so dont have experience of a christian god(apart from a slight flirtation when i was about 11 years old)

 

my questions are these ,

do i have to believe in some sort of god to be callled a pagan ?

how do i know who it is?

 

at the moment the only thing i believe in is nature and the power of that,i celebrate the turning of the year and the changing of the seasons ,but i dont know where a god fits into all this apart from maybe Mother Nature

 

im interested in what people in the British Isle might have believed in and am also researching Heathenry,but its not in a religious context more of an avid interest in the history behind it all

208480[/snapback]

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  • 4 weeks later...

93

I dont know whether deities exist or not,but if one invokes a god or goddess you will get a result so for me I must assume that they do exist.

I hold the thelemic belief that the goddess(in this case Nuit),is the Great Mother of all things from the past present and future.She is that from which the whole world springs.Our souls are stars within Her body.

The God(in this case Hadit) is the consort and complement of Nuit.Where Nuit is potential,Hadit is manifestation.where Nuit is matter,Hadit is motion,where Nuit is space,Hadit is time.

Then there is the child of their interraction Horus but thats another story.

Anyway what I am trying to say is that for me,the universe seems to behave as if they exist.

93/93 93

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:) oh thank s for that and here was me thinking i need to have a god and godess

which i find hard at the moment

as my family are from ireland i am also drawn there for reason i havent found out yet ?

i try and follow the celtic ways the best i can

there are so many celtic gods and godess

take my name for a start :lol:

least i know i dont have to have them as at the mo i really couldnt fit them in

maybe in the future i may but thanks for clearing this one up for us

bb caileach beara

post-11656-1213872416.jpg

Edited by cailleach beara
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im meandering around the site picking up interesting info that has been very helpful,the only problem i have is the belief in a god of any sort

 

i come from a completley non religious background so dont have experience of a christian god(apart from a slight flirtation when i was about 11 years old)

 

my questions are these ,

do i have to believe in some sort of god to be callled a pagan ?

how do i know who it is?

 

at the moment the only thing i believe in is nature and the power of that,i celebrate the turning of the year and the changing of the seasons ,but i dont know where a god fits into all this apart from maybe Mother Nature

 

im interested in what people in the British Isle might have believed in and am also researching Heathenry,but its not in a religious context more of an avid interest in the history behind it all

208480[/snapback]

 

You don't have to 'do' deity to be Pagan. Loads of Atheists here, seem to be doing absolutely fabulous without.

 

As to how you know who it is, sometimes that's all part of the 'courting' process when deity decides (or is it us) that they might want you for a sun or moonbeam.

 

One of my patrons couldn’t have missed who she was, or what we wanted from each other.

 

Another was very vague and mysterious and took an awful lot research to uncover her identity. It was a bit 'doh' and obvious when they penny dropped who she was, but she didn't think I was too huge an idiot, very magnanimous of her!

 

At the moment, I'm rather skulkily hiding from someone who's shown a small amount of attention my way. I'm not sure about the relationship. I'm not sure what consequences there will be for not running to him with open arms might be. I'm sure it'll be interesting either way.

 

But mainly, don't worry too much, deity may come into your life, it may not, you may prefer working exactly the way you are. In paganism, there are many paths through the pagany forest!

 

Q

Edited by Queenie
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  • 4 weeks later...

I used to be catholic, were i was forced to believe in god. Because he was never there for me, as a grew older i lost faith and stared to think wether he actually existed. I dont believe in any god or godess at all.

 

I believe that everyone has a spirit in side them as well as there own. This spirit is everything. From the smallest grain of sand, to the largest of whales. This spirit makes what is, is. Its there to help and guide us through life, but only when we ask for it. Id go into more detail, but i struggle to make sense at the best of times and ive been drinking cider all night so mneer.

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