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What's An Angel Then? - wings and fings.


Guest fizzyclare1
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um, I've been pondering on what an angel is. I know what the xian view is (messenger of god an all that)...but what exactly is an angel?

 

Do pagans believe in angels? or some pagans? is an angel what the xians say?

or are they a figment of the imagination? or is an angel a spirit.

 

I have very little experience of angels (I'm not sure even what they are). I went to a spiritualist once and he said I had a guardian angel that was an irish man who liked to protect me (used a symbol of an umbrella). Also, apparently, he likes to tickle me when I am feeling sad.

 

But that's not a messenger of god, is it? I mean, that's a deceased person who may or may not be my ancestor? or deceased relative.

 

all your thoughts welcome.

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I believe angels to be a form of spirit but like more "substantial" I think is the best word to describe it, than say wights. By that I mean they are capable of (I hesitate to say manipulating) affecting the real world via the spiritual. Hope that makes sense. As for appearance Ive always held the belief that they take a form we find easy to identify with.

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I don't believe in angels and have never knowingly met one.

 

Among Christians, IIRC, it's the Catholics who tend to believe in 'guardians angels'; it's not a Protestant thing. The Prostestant view is of being which are pure intellignece and which serve god, rarely appearing to humans. I don't know what the Orthodox believe. The Christian faith took the concept of angels from the Jewish one. There is a Muslim belief that every person has a djinn assigned to him or her, but that doesn't seem to be a guardian-like concept.

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Try good old Wikipedia for the following:

 

Grigori

Nephilim*

Naamah - very interesting BTW! She is a succubus and fallen angel, and is generally regarded as an aspect or relation of Lilith. Naamah is said to have engaged, like Lilith, in intercourse with Adam.

 

Re the Nephilim: (Genesis 6:4; Numbers 13:33). The Nephilim are considered by many to be giant demigods, the unnatural offspring of the “daughters of men” (mortal women) in cohabitation with the “sons of God” (angels; cf. Genesis 6:1-4).

 

Google also for the Catholic Encyclopedia - it has its own notions. Among which:

the meaning of the term in the Bible, the offices of the angels, the names assigned to the angels, the distinction between good and evil spirits, the divisions of the angelic choirs, the question of angelic appearances, and the development of the scriptural idea of angels.

 

 

And as for the Judaic slant? Read on!

 

Judaism tends to refer to angels as "Ministering Angels", not "Angels

of the Lord" (a more Christian term). Maimonides, an Aristotilian

rationalist, lists a hierarchy of angels. In prophecy, we find

different kinds of angel. In particular, the book of Ezekiel opens

with a vision of a Divine Chariot.

 

Angels are seen in visions as having one leg because they lack free

will. They are automata that are "programmed" to do the will of God.

They therefore lack the power to progress, to improve themselves.

Man's power for growth, in contrast, is described as "walking". Jewish

law calls itself "halachah", the way to walk.

 

In addition, the Talmud tells us that every angel has only one

mission. Their missions are their names. In most cases, that means

that they don't last long enough for their names to warrant mention.

However, some have more far-reaching missions, and their names do make

it into the Torah or the prayer book. Kabbalistic prayers said by

Chassidic and Sepharadic Jews sometimes have names that are only to be

looked at, not read. But the most comonly cited names include:

* Refael: God Heals

* Michael (pronounced Me-cha-el, with the /ch/ like in the name

"Bach"): Who is Like God

* Uriel: God is My Light

* Gabriel: God is my strength with conotations of strength of

character, ability to resist and to stand firm. Not so much power

or force.

* HaSatan: the Challenger (he- is a prefix meaning "the"), the angel

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All of us seem to need to 'lable' things as a way to understand them, which is why many of us have different interpretations of the word angels. To me, Angels are spirits, like in a spirit guide, which could be interpreted as a guardian angel for those of a religious persuaision. Where they come from and why they visit is also up to interpretation, unless you become aware of why they are here. They could be relatives from the past that are watching over you, especially in times of severe trouble or sadness.

 

Christians and other religions seem to want to catagorize them and group them into recognizable forms. Most will say they are in one way or another, God's Messanger, and catorgize them into those who are with God and those who are not, (Those convenient little entities that make us do bad things) :) , or what is known as fallen angels, like leprechauns. And there is the king of angels in one respect, Michael the Archangel.

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well, I've never seen anything with one leg, so i guess i've not seen an angel. :)

 

thats really interesting what you said Tas, never realised angels were such complicated creatures.

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well, you know I used to think they were very beautiful when I was a kid, I didn't quite believe that something as beautiful as that could possibly be from earth.

 

and they do stand on one leg, don't they. :( :lol:

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well, I've never seen anything with one leg, so i guess i've not seen an angel. tongue.gif

 

 

Pieces of Eight ! :lol:

216811[/snapback]

 

 

:(

 

I don't believe in angels and I've never seen anything that might have been one. I've always assumed that they were a Christian thing.

 

Frey

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well, I've never seen anything with one leg, so i guess i've not seen an angel. tongue.gif

 

 

Pieces of Eight ! :lol:

216811[/snapback]

:(

 

I would agree with Ethereal . I think that these spiritsAngels , are dominant in the Jewish Religion and christianity (already mentioned in previous posts)

 

I have sensed only Archangels and to me, these are powerful energies or spirits. I don't believe in Guardian Angels or that everybody has one.

 

As Morganna wrote, christians believe that there is an Order of Angels and there are thousands of individual ones. It's strange that there are NO female Archangels, well none that I know of, and if there are no females in the 'Higher Order', then I think that Xalle may be right ;)

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:blink: Embarrased that i know this- but if you want to get into the no females in heirarchy thing. Angels are in nearly all accounts a-sexual/heamaphrodite.

 

:unsure: :ph34r:

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:blink:  Embarrased that i know this- but if you want to get  into the no females in heirarchy thing. Angels are in nearly all accounts a-sexual/heamaphrodite.

 

:unsure:  :ph34r:

217059[/snapback]

 

I was referring to the Archangels and from certain books and web pages that I have read, they are always referred to as He.

 

As for Angels, I have found this definitions which you may like :o_perv: :

 

Angel

 

Angel n : a spiritual being that is believed to be much more powerful than a human. Angels are composed of ethereal matter, thus allowing them to take on whichever physical form best suits their immediate needs. In Christian, Muslim, Jewish and other theologies an angel can be one who acts as a messenger, attendant or agent of God.

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:blink:  Embarrased that i know this- but if you want to get  into the no females in heirarchy thing. Angels are in nearly all accounts a-sexual/heamaphrodite.

 

:unsure:  :ph34r:

217059[/snapback]

 

Guess whoever is writing the accounts hasn't met the 110% male Michael then?

 

I find the whole concept of Angels fascinating, particularly the ones that get a mention in the Book of Enoch, aka The Watchers, who teach mankind lots of interesting things like astrology, herbalism, the use of poisons, and eyeshadow!:

 

And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony (a greyish blue elemental chemical which is a poison), and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures.  Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, taught astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon.

 

So according to Enoch, the Angels/Watchers taught us quite a lot of occult knowledge. Fascinating stuff.

 

Although angels get a lot of press in Christian works, I find it very hard to equate the experience of them through things like doing the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram with anything specifically Christian.

 

Rhiannon

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I believe in angels :o_angel: :o_angel: :o_angel:

The pagan angels thread we had a while ago is here :)

Really wonderful link angels This is really fluffy but it made me happy watching it it's beautiful :(

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I have to say I do not understand what angels have to do with Paganisim at all.

 

Are they not a biblical construct? I get a bit :( when I hear of pagans who "connect" with Angels. If you believe in angles, do you not then have to accpet where they are supposed to come from.. which is the Xtian god?

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Meant to mention you might want to replace the word God with Goddess on that link but the images are beautiful :(

 

I don't think angels are exclusive to the Xian God. Look how many deitites are known by different names and guises throughout history in different cultures? Spiritual beings can appear in many forms to many people. The fae are widely believed in by different cultures with different beliefs. Why should angels be any different?

 

BBs LL

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Because the Angel is supposed to be a messenger of "God" the Xtain god.

 

There is as far as I am aware no mention of anything angel like in any pagan faith.

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Because the Angel is supposed to be a messenger of "God" the Xtain god.

 

There is as far as I am aware no mention of anything angel like in any pagan faith.

217198[/snapback]

 

Well, you should have a word with Cassandra Eason about her books Xalle! :(

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I think the idea of winged messengers of the Gods goes back a bit further than Christianity.

 

Babylon/Ur, birthplace of modern magic, has some very interesting wall carvings.

 

It's only in Christian myth that Angels are from Jehovah, and as I said, in my experience angels aren't of themselves overtly Christian. However, I'm a panentheist, a polytheist or atheist may have different interpretations.

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The Christian/Jewish angelic Cherubs derive from the Babylonian (and they got it from the Sumerians) Karibu (I'm doing this from memory, but it's something like that) who were winged guardians. They may have originally been a Mesopotamian tribe. Cherubs were fearsome buggers and not at all cute and baby-like originally.

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Hmm, if we're talking about protective spirits, the only thing I can think of are Kachinas. Not quite the same thing though as they can also refer to stars, comets or other "signs" in the skies. :lol:

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Because the Angel is supposed to be a messenger of "God" the Xtain god.

 

There is as far as I am aware no mention of anything angel like in any pagan faith.

217198[/snapback]

 

Well, you should have a word with Cassandra Eason about her books Xalle! :o_rolleyes:

217200[/snapback]

 

Eh no thanks, theres only so much fluff and crap I can swallow.

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Angels… hmm.. this is all down to interpretation but then I guess, so is life in its every form eh! :o_rolleyes:

 

I tend to believe that we are all one and the same on many a different journey. We will each encounter many of the same experiences and emotions at some stage in our life’s’ journey and each will interpret our experiences differently. Some according to faith, some according to background, some according to education and many according to peer pressures etc.

 

What one person may think of as an angelic experience, another may view as luck ( either good or bad) or coincidence etc. The thing that strikes me is that, it doesn’t matter what words you use to define an experience, it was just that.. an experience, a moment of being. Religions and Paths may sway your views and interpretations of the moment but it’s already passed.

 

So, do I believe in angels?? I suppose then this all depends of my views on life doesn’t it? The A- typical definitions of Angels as adopted by the xtain church may not be my experience of them but does it lesson any experiences I may have had or make me a ‘dreaded’ fluffy in the Pagan circles to admit that I’ve had experiences that I might want to interpret as as angelic intervention??

 

To me, it’s just a connection with my own higher conscience, a part of my psyche that largely goes unused from day to day. I don’t believe in a ‘them & us’ way of thinking when it comes to deities,gods, goddesses, angels whatever you want to call them/ it whatever… I think our brains present information in ways that we can understand individually hence, xtains seeing lovely glowing cherubs etc. I think all the ethereal or spiritual encounters or abilities already lie inside ourselves, I think we each are our own angels, dwights, faeries, gods, goddesses etc etc…..

 

 

I’m running away now because I realise this will probably make absolutely no conventional sense to anybody!!!!

Do I believe in Angels, yes.. but probably not in the same way you do! What’s in a name??

 

Barn x

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What about angels as in ones the New Agers claim to "channel" etc? Maybe some of them are making it up but what about the others? Are they real entities of some kind? Angels, demons, mischevious spirits?!

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What about angels as in ones the New Agers claim to "channel" etc? Maybe some of them are making it up but what about the others? Are they real entities of some kind? Angels, demons, mischevious spirits?!

217362[/snapback]

 

This might interest you Devil

Edited by Athena
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