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Harming None - Is it possible/feasible/desirable?


Guest fizzyclare1
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eek, I don't do wicca or wicca books, never got the idea of the need for all that ritual. and the light flogging definitely doesn't do anything for me at all. or nakedness (I've got big girl syndrome!)

 

I don't agree with the rede either, its well meant but, as will all guides to how to act it fails to take into account the notion of human frailty. For example, harm none - what about those who are mentally ill/suffering and wish to commit suicide or those that wish to be euthanased due to some kind of ailment?

 

mmm...I could go on but I am sure you get the idea.

 

fizz

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For example, harm none - what about those who are mentally ill/suffering and wish to commit suicide or those that wish to be euthanased due to some kind of ailment? 

 

mmm...I could go on but I am sure you get the idea.

 

fizz

219623[/snapback]

 

I think the emphasis is on the definition of "harm" suicide & euthanasia could be seen as a release for some.

 

just my 2ps!

:ph34r:

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I think you are quite right, its just that that is one interpretation, another person might take a more fundamental view and say that any harming is wrong.

 

which is totally impossible.

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Ok, so you agree with harming?

:ph34r: Sorry, i am a wee bit confused now!

Edited by MoonDoll
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Ya know what? My pc wa being funny, and i didnt see the last 2 posts!!!

Now i understand!! ok, more coffee for me... lol

xx

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A lot of what you may consider to be helping one person can be at the expense of another. If someone has a job interview, is nervous and asks for you to do something to boost their confidence so they get the job will think that what you've done is great, but what about the poor bugger who would have got the job and has now missed out? Harming none is not an easy thing to do.

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It's a nice rule to be sure. But totally impractical and impossible. As others have pointed out it is impossible not to hurt others. Every decision we make has a negative consequence, albeit sometimes tiny, somewhere and someone suffers, even if just a little.

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I do believe in the rede, an it harm none. However I completely agree that even with the best intentions we can make mistakes. Usually I try and cover this eventuality by asking the Goddess to act help ........ in the best possible interests and outcome for all concerned. That way even if I have made an error of judgement hopefully her divine wisdom will intervene!

I think ultimately that all any of us can do is aspire to harm none and to do the best we can in the circumstances.

BBs Lantern_Light

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Ok, so you agree with harming?

Sorry, i am a wee bit confused now!

 

It might be best for you to start a thread on this then, MoonDoll. As this subject can often start up a robust discussion on pagan boards like this.

 

As for twaddle in books - indigo children anyone? Grrr.......

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I do believe in the rede, an it harm none. However I completely agree that even with the best intentions we can make mistakes. Usually I try and cover this eventuality by asking the Goddess to act help ........ in the best possible interests and outcome for all concerned. That way even if I have made an error of judgement hopefully her divine wisdom will intervene!

I think ultimately that all any of us can do is aspire to harm none and to do the best we can in the circumstances.

BBs Lantern_Light

219770[/snapback]

 

 

Which Goddess do you ask Lantern Light ? :)

 

 

wolvie

Edited by wolverine
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depends which one i've called on and for which purpose also whether in formal ritual or not. Most regularly I work with Morrigan but that isn't always the case. I used the word Goddess but it could just as easily be any other deity or divine energy source depending on when what for etc. I wouldn't presume to recommend who anyone else should call on. How each person works and who with is down to them. It's just a suggestion that I've found useful before.

BBs Lantern_Light

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How far do you take the rede? Do you apply it to just magical workings or every aspect of your life?

 

It could be considered by our very act of being alive we are harming everything around us. We drive, eat, heat our homes, build things, etc., and by doing so we are doing perhaps untold harm to future generations and ourselves.

 

By buying cheap clothes from shops we could be contributing to sweat shops in the east. By buying cheap supermarket food we are contributing the suffering of animals and to farmers going out of business. And so on.

 

We sculpted nature to an image we like, driven out the wilderness in most of the UK and have harmed the environment as a result.

 

As I've said - it's a nice thought but not realistic.

Edited by Wulfric
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How far do you take the rede? Do you apply it to just magical workings or every aspect of your life?

 

It could be considered by our very act of being alive we are harming everything around us. We drive, eat, heat our homes, build things, etc., and by doing so we are doing perhaps untold harm to future generations and ourselves.

 

By buying cheap clothes from shops we could be contributing to sweat shops in the east. By buying cheap supermarket food we are contributing the suffering of animals and to farmers going out of business. And so on.

 

We sculpted nature to an image we like, driven out the wilderness in most of the UK and have harmed the environment as a result.

 

As I've said - it's a nice thought but not realistic.

219804[/snapback]

 

 

:) :D :D :lol: :lol:

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How far do you take the rede? Do you apply it to just magical workings or every aspect of your life?

 

It could be considered by our very act of being alive we are harming everything around us. We drive, eat, heat our homes, build things, etc., and by doing so we are doing perhaps untold harm to future generations and ourselves.

 

By buying cheap clothes from shops we could be contributing to sweat shops in the east. By buying cheap supermarket food we are contributing the suffering of animals and to farmers going out of business. And so on.

 

We sculpted nature to an image we like, driven out the wilderness in most of the UK and have harmed the environment as a result.

 

As I've said - it's a nice thought but not realistic.

219804[/snapback]

 

 

:) :D :D :lol: :lol:

219806[/snapback]

 

 

 

Same here :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Well said Wolfric. I do believe in the rede but think that perhaps it is an indication of how to try to behave, not an absolute.

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I have to say that it's an admirable thing to try to live up to, if unrealistic for the reasons Wulfric has outlined above.

 

I also have to say that if someone harms, or attempts to harm, me or mine, I most certainly WILL harm them and I make no apology for that.

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Well said Wolfric. I do believe in the rede but think that perhaps it is an indication of how to try to behave, not an absolute.

219814[/snapback]

I agree completely, its something I aspire to. That doesn't mean it's always achievable it just means that I try to harm none wherever it is possible.

BBs LL

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I have to say that it's an admirable thing to try to live up to, if unrealistic for the reasons Wulfric has outlined above.

 

I also have to say that if someone harms, or attempts to harm, me or mine, I most certainly WILL harm them and I make no apology for that.

219828[/snapback]

 

 

 

:o_claps: :o_claps: :o_claps: :o_claps: :o_claps:

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For one thing to thrive another must be consumed. The trick is too minimise, rather than completely avoid harming anyone, which is- as we've already surmised- utterly impossible.

That and the fact that some people really benefit from having their head dashed on a wall.

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I agree with the post above in that everthing we do in everyday life harms something/somebody and we all have to do our best to minimise the damage.

 

However when it comes to harm in a magical sense, if someone is trying to harm me from afar, then rather than sending harm back, I try and reflect their harm back at them. I would never harm somebody for selfish reasons, but be sure if some hurts me and mine then I would definatley be inclined to do so.

 

However, in my experience, if someone has tried to cause anybody harm for selfish reasons, whether it be in a mental/physical/magical sense, they usually get bitten in the arse!!

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Short answer to this one is that sometimes it's possible to take a course of action that doesn't harm anyone. In those cases, do as you will.

 

I can think of many possible examples, usually around lifestyle choices.

 

It's a very liberating philosophy, especially when compared with those which have large numbers of "thou shalt not"s

 

Doesn't help in situations where all the possible options will cause some degree of harm, in those cases you've got to apply your own moral philosophy.

 

gwyn eich byd

 

Ffred

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Dear Folks,

 

A passing Wiccan unfolds a table, plonks an old gramaphone on it, winds it up, and carefully applies the needle to a very worn record:

 

(hisscracklecrackle) "Why on earth would anyone think allowing harm to happen meant harming none? How on earth could that be any decent person's will? Have you noticed any Wiccans becoming paralysed with revulsion at the actions of their own immune systems recently?" (hisscracklecrackle)

 

:D

 

BB,

 

John Macintyre

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eek, I don't do wicca or wicca books, never got the idea of the need for all that ritual. and the light flogging definitely doesn't do anything for me at all.  or nakedness (I've got big girl syndrome!)

 

fizz

219623[/snapback]

 

Same here with the nakedness part. I don't know HOW I concentrate doing anything as I'd be worrying about that OR God/desses laughing at me.

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Same here with the nakedness part. I don't know HOW I concentrate doing anything as I'd be worrying about that OR God/desses laughing at me.

221514[/snapback]

 

Darn right - If I took my clothes off in a ritual it certaintly wouldn't 'harm none'. :lol: :P :o_bounce2:

 

Heathens promote 'honourable behaviour' which I feel is easier to apply. Hexing permitted when genuinely deserved.

 

Skegga

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Same here with the nakedness part. I don't know HOW I concentrate doing anything as I'd be worrying about that OR God/desses laughing at me.

221514[/snapback]

 

Darn right - If I took my clothes off in a ritual it certaintly wouldn't 'harm none'. :lol: :P :o_bounce2:

 

Heathens promote 'honourable behaviour' which I feel is easier to apply. Hexing permitted when genuinely deserved.

 

Skegga

221882[/snapback]

 

 

 

Lol, that'd apply to me as well. I'm not comfortable enough to do things without stuff between me and the world which'd ruin any working.

I'd also be worried about them (God/desses/guides) laughing at my wobbly bits :o_bounce:

 

I tend to get upset instead of angry which is a useless emotion to bring to a hexing so I don't do them. I Do strongly believe that at times bottling things up if you cannot let go can do more harm than good. Of course that means for me being willing to do what I can to let go.

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I was in a coven, years ago now. It was part of my spiritual development, and one I'm kinda glad I experienced, but also greatful I left behind. I was always taught by the high priest that the whole point of the rede wasn't to blindly follow it, but to be responsible enough to know when you could morally break it. Sometimes you have to do a little harm to prevent a greater harm.

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Sometimes you have to do a little harm to prevent a greater harm.

222052[/snapback]

 

Ah, yes. That reminds me of how an old boss of mine once described the business we were in; 'the application of focused violence', these days usually employed to prevent the spread of the less focused kind.

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