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fizzyclare1

The Origins Of Ability - psychic ability, witchcraft ability.

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fizzyclare1

um...many folks on here have discussed the origins of witchcraft and have suggested that we can somehow shape our future by doing a working and such.

 

but where does this ability come from? is it mere evolution? or could it come from deities? or what? (not really trying to get into the heredity debate here either).

 

and what about the capacity to predict the future? ie using tarot, cards, or whatever.

 

and psychic ability eg remote viewing, psychic flashes of the future, omens, warnings and such like - are they a product of evolution? famous psychics (whether they are genuine or not I don't know) argue that we all have this ability but we just don't use it. It certainly does seem to have adaptive value.

 

Could witchcraft ability/predicting the future etc be similar in this way?

 

Intuitively I feel that all these abilities are linked to a common mechanism, but I can't for the life of me say what exactly, its just that they all have a similar feel.

 

would really welcome peoples thoughts on this matter, its been bugging me for quite some time. ....that bug again. :P

 

fizz

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Guest SpiralShaman

I think it's something everyone has the ability to do, like meditation. It's just realising you have that ability in the first place, and exercising it. It's like a muscle...... to keep it in good shape you've got to keep excersing it. Everyone has the ability to learn, develop and grow. I don't necessarily believe some people are more powerful than others..... well only to the same extent as some people are physically stronger than others.... How you train, practice and develop counts.

 

 

Maybe some people have a better natural aptitude...... but that doesn't necessarily mean they'l always be better than others..... Infact I believe it can be the reverse.... How often have you underachieved in something you haven't really had to work for, because you know that just by doing the minimum, you can get by?

Edited by SpiralShaman

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fizzyclare1

so we all have the ability to do witchcraft, be psychic, see the future, if we want to? is it all down to learning? self discipline? choice?

 

If that is the case, then what could be the mechanism/s that underpin such abilities? assuming of course that the skeptics are wrong. ie these abilities actually exist and aren't a figment of our imagination.

 

here's a thought: what if the capacity to imagine, think, create is/are the mechanisms behind such abilities? .....need to think about that some more though...can a thought shape what happens? can creativity shape what will happen? can a ritual (ie in magic) shape events?

 

Does the success of remote viewing depend on the capacity to share thoughts? could that be how magic works too?

 

more questions than answers....

 

once again, your thoughts are very welcome.

 

fizz

 

fizz

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Guest SpiralShaman

I can't remember the exact figures, but isn't it something like 75% of the brain isn't actually used, or so they say?

 

 

Maybe they just don't know how to detect if its in use or not :lol:

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fizzyclare1

so 75% magic 25% mundane?

 

I like that.

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Guest woozle

Haven't got any answers as such but i know of a 'faith' healer who is a total non-believer in anything mystical. I also know a total believer who can't do naff all though he tries all the time to heal and do helping stuff under the guidance of the faith healer. Sods law innit?

For me if i get to do anything it comes through me from elsewhere. The less i intervene mentally the clearer the response.

I do think though that everyone has the ability to feel at different levels and that you learn to reach these levels. So maybe those that are good at it manage to feel other people, events etc.

Personally i don't believe in tarot or any such activities except for myself on myself. I would love to believe in Mme. Floofy, psychic reader etc. but i've never met anyone who using cards. runes etc. has been able to predict my future with anything other than an approximation. Having said this though, i used to do runes for myself and others and ended up giving the damn things away as on others they were a complete waste of time. On myself on the other hand were unnervingly accurate. I prefer to leave the future in the unknown.

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Guest woozle

.....sorry to hog so much space but a thing i have been pondering for years might have some relevance. All my family way back, are all musical. But most of the families are, on daily level, not musical. I.e. nobody played but they all can, sort of thing. In my immediate family my mother plays wonderfully (i discoverd one christmas a couple of years ago) but i had to wait 40 years to hear her. I am musical but did not learn from her or my dad or anyone else for that matter. I think it is inherited. I have musician friends obviously and many of them are gifted - many more are not. They have to slog at it for hours to get what the naturals get in a second. The results are that often, as in my case, the naturals don't push it and remain well behind those that are not gifted who to compensate work themselves harder and reach higher levels. Perhaps 'pshchic ability' is something similar. Something that has a component of genetic inheritance but at the same time can still be learned to the hightest levels by others that don't have the particular gene.

Just a thought.

p.s. - I'm not sure why the words hereditry and inheritance give you all the willies but here i mean it in a purely technical way so please nobody get uptight.

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Guest SpiralShaman
I do think though that everyone has the ability to feel at different levels and that you learn to reach these levels. So maybe those that are good at it manage to feel other people, events etc.

223800[/snapback]

 

I think that might be the case. People are better at different skills, and some skills lend themselves more handily to certain things. I've found the people that read cards best for others are generally more empathic (I'm not talking reading peoples thoughts, just the ability to put yourself in someone elses shoes), whilst most people seem to be able to divine for themselves quite accurately. Sometimes though, the cards or rues don't want to play, and they'll throw a spaner in the works themselves!

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Athena
um...many folks on here have discussed the origins of witchcraft and have suggested that we can somehow shape our future by doing a working and such.

 

but where does this ability come from?  is it mere evolution?  or could it come from deities? or what?  (not really trying to get into the heredity debate here either).

and what about the capacity to predict the future? 

fizz

223765[/snapback]

 

IMO both. We all have the ability which may be also helped,guided or come from dieties,energies, or other presences

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Guest SpiralShaman
Something that has a component of genetic inheritance but at the same time can still be learned to the hightest levels by others that don't have the particular gene.

223803[/snapback]

 

 

Yes, but I don't think its like the gene for tasting bell peppers,which you either have or you don't, moreover the development of that gene.

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Guest woozle

Yes, but I don't think its like the gene for tasting bell peppers,which you either have or you don't, moreover the development of that gene.

223806[/snapback]

 

a sort of starter for one gene?

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Xalle
I think it's something everyone has the ability to do, like meditation.  It's just realising you have that ability in the first place, and exercising it.  It's like a muscle...... to keep it in good shape you've got to keep excersing it.  Everyone has the ability to learn, develop and grow.  I don't necessarily believe some people are more powerful than others..... well only to the same extent as some people are physically stronger than others.... How you train, practice and develop counts.

 

 

Maybe some people have a better natural aptitude......  but that doesn't necessarily mean they'l always be better than others..... Infact I believe it can be the reverse.... How often have you underachieved in something you haven't really had to work for, because you know that just by doing the minimum, you can get by?

223769[/snapback]

 

Im going to be controversial and disagree with that. I think its a very PC thing in the Pagan world to say things like "everyone can do anything". I dont think thats right at all. I think and I have said this before, that its like playing an instrument or learning how to dance, you can learn the theory, you might even be able to do a passable waltz or wrangle a tune out of a piano, its doesnt mean you'll be playing the Albert Hall or featuring in Come Dancing.

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Guest SpiralShaman

Yes, but I'm thinking you inherit the development of it, to an extent, rather than just having it or not.

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Guest SpiralShaman
Im going to be controversial and disagree with that. I think its a very PC thing in the Pagan world to say things like "everyone can do anything". I dont think thats right at all. I think and I have said this before, that its like playing an instrument or learning how to dance, you can learn the theory, you might even be able to do a passable waltz or wrangle a tune out of a piano, its doesnt mean you'll be playing the Albert Hall or featuring in Come Dancing.

223812[/snapback]

 

 

True, but alot of that is down to how much time and effort you put into learning, Yes admitedly there's such a thing as savants, and virtuoso's, but you've even said your self there, you might be able to have some basic ability. Even someone dancing with 2 left feet is dancing, albiet badly.

 

I'd call people gifted with certain things. It's certainly true that people have natural flairs, dependant on the person. Just think about some of the mundane skills you posses...... and think about which ones came naturally, and which ones you really had to work at? Some things certainly do come easier to some people than they do to others.

 

How much of this is nature versus nurture though?

 

Or how about genetic memory, and morphic resonance?

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Guest Pantheistkeith

I have to agree with Xalle on this one.

I would add whatever a witch is, it is there from birth. There can be signs at birth of these abilitys such as being born with a caul over the face for example. This was how some Indian tribes knew who their witch doctors were for instance. There were a bunch of medieval Italian witches who all had this pecularity. They were known as Benandante or good walkers as some of you will already know.

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Queenie
Im going to be controversial and disagree with that. I think its a very PC thing in the Pagan world to say things like "everyone can do anything". I dont think thats right at all. I think and I have said this before, that its like playing an instrument or learning how to dance, you can learn the theory, you might even be able to do a passable waltz or wrangle a tune out of a piano, its doesnt mean you'll be playing the Albert Hall or featuring in Come Dancing.

 

223812[/snapback]

 

I don't think it's a case of "everyone being able to anything". I think we all have a latent aptitude for this sort of thing, it's whether or not we do anything to develop that aptitude, btw, the dancing metaphor is very nice, so shall we stick with that?

 

If you can be arsed to find a dance tutor or even get a 101 book on waltzing, like you suggest you are probably going to improve your ability.

 

However, I agree that your 'natural' ability will ultimately determine whether you get on come dancing or not.

 

However, I think that small children for example often exhibit highly psychic abilities, and when they talk about them, you see how quickly it gets squished right out of them (an coincidentally kids don't seem to care if they look ridiculous running around in circles whereas adults can be very self conscious - perhaps as adults we just forget or are too embarrassed to dance!)

Edited by Queenie

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Guest Tas Mania

Easier to point folks here for an explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacognition

 

but this seems to me to indicate we need to know HOW to know. It doesn't make sense as I'm saying it - sorry.

 

But despite this, I also think that you are born Witch, although it is also possible to develop certain skills through practice/dedication etc.

 

Our society has tried to stamp out any sort of differences, hence why many are afraid to examine why they might have certain abilities, or indeed are afraid to develop their potential.

 

I know as a child I suffered many thick ears for talking to people who weren't there. For me they were, but trying to explain resulted in yet another lecture/skelp. Why do we stifle kids like this? Fear maybe.

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Guest woozle
I have to agree with Xalle on this one.

I would add  whatever a witch is, it is there from birth.  There can be signs at birth of these abilitys such as being born with a caul over the face for example.

223820[/snapback]

 

It's possible i suppose but i wonder how many excellent and powerful (i do hate that word but sometimes it's useful) witches are there around which were not born with the caul or, conversely, how many born with one but end up spiritually dead?

I find the subject of racial/inherited memory fascinating. OK it's not mystical and all that but if true would explain a lot particularly if the memory is long term which would perhaps also account for a friend who was born in Turin, has never been to the states in his life but is a sort of NA shaman. Maybe he has ancestors who were such and captures the stuff he gets from that log-jam of memories.

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Guest Tas Mania

Just had a thought.

 

Surely being Witch is about ownership? Ownership of (and thus taking full responsibility for) one's emotions. Including anger.

 

Being able to go inside oneself in order to do so. I suppose that can be taught - but for many it seems to be innate. As is knowing you don't have to answer in the accepted sense for what you do - it is so intensely personal, and ultimately is YOU, rather than an acceptance of societal "norms".

 

Also a double-edged sword. Allows great freedom, but also that responsibility word again...

 

Rambling again, sorry.

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Guest Quasizoid

I would say in this case the term magic is being inappropriately used as a blanket reference for that which is actually a well developed cognitive ability capable of interacting with causality more strategically. As I've explained countless times before, the brain collects all the sensory input there is and tries to assimilate it in virtual reality of cause and effect- to derive a suitable course of action. Magic, on the other hand, deals more with interaction through kinetic effect. Thus magic of course requires a more telekinetic level of psychic ability. That means the sentience capable of psychic interaction with its environment on an intrinsically electrochemical level. ^_^

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Xalle
Easier to point folks here for an explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacognition

 

 

But despite this, I also think that you are born Witch, although it is also possible to develop certain skills through practice/dedication etc.

 

Our society has tried to stamp out any sort of differences, hence why many are afraid to examine why they might have certain abilities, or indeed are afraid to develop their potential.

 

I know as a child I suffered many thick ears for talking to people who weren't there. For me they were, but trying to explain resulted in yet another lecture/skelp. Why do we stifle kids like this? Fear maybe.

223827[/snapback]

 

I agree with this utterly. I think (and I know I am going to get lambasted for this.) there is a difference between a witch and someone who practices witchcraft. No matter how adept that practitioner may be. Im not saying a witch is some sort of mystical being! ^_^ I just mean that, most of my magick comes from, well... me. When I use magick it comes from inside me. I use the "form" of spell I use because I know in my core that this is the way and these are "items" that will best help me focus the intent to move the energy I need to move. It is as much a part of me as breathing. Now I know people go through the motions, use the right things and do it by the book. But its like cooking from a recipe, its not really you cooking, its the book. Its only once you get away from all that, that you get to the essence of magick and I believe the ability to do that is something you are born with.

 

*Runs for cover*

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Guest Quasizoid

Yup, exactly, Xalle. ^_^

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Guest SpiralShaman

I totally agree, which is why I think anyone is capable. It's a personal power, which comes from within. All people have to do is know how to connect with it, which not everybody does.

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fizzyclare1

personally, I have no problem with what you have said xalle, I was wondering if there was a common mechanism and suggestions/thoughts as to how that mechanism might operate between magical ability, psychic ability and the ability to predict.

 

i think someone else asked about nature nurture debate and yes I suppose that can't be avoided, but as I say I was wondering also about how these things work.

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Guest woozle

But its like cooking from a recipe, its not really you cooking, its the book. Its only once you get away from all that, that you get to the essence of magick and I believe the ability to do that is something you are born with.

 

*Runs for cover*

223847[/snapback]

 

Woozle dives behind a bush, pops his head round the trunk and aims the magick rifle and slowly pulls the trigger and the words "does this then mean we are all wasting our time?" shoot across to Xalle et al to explode with stars and other bedtime stuff.

^_^ :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Xalle
I totally agree, which is why I think anyone is capable.  It's a personal power, which comes from within.  All people have to do is know how to connect with it, which not everybody does.

223849[/snapback]

 

Eh no. You misunderstand me. The ability to make the right power come from within is something you are born with. Anyone who practices magick utilises power from within. That "stepping over" is something I dont really think you can learn.

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fizzyclare1

um...memory failing a bit here quas, but doesn't bioholography touch on the idea of electrochemistry?

 

fizz

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Xalle

Woozle dives behind a bush, pops his head round the trunk and aims the  magick rifle and slowly pulls the trigger and the words "does this then mean we are all wasting our time?" shoot across to Xalle et al to explode with stars and other bedtime stuff.

:D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

223852[/snapback]

 

LAMO! :D

 

Erm... possibly??? Eeeep!!!! i knwo its a terrible thing to say. I know that its going to cause ructions saying that, but to a certain extent I do kinda, um, yeah... maybe..... ^_^ :D

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Guest Quasizoid
um...memory failing a bit here quas, but doesn't bioholography touch on the idea of electrochemistry?

 

fizz

223854[/snapback]

 

yep. ^_^

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Guest woozle

But does that not still imply that those who are not born with the abiltuy to step over are never going to get the carrot in the end?

edit sorry got my replies mixed up however i'll leave itanyway.

Edited by woozle

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