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Slightly Confused - please help


Guest Sigridr
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as you all know im pretty new on here, finally dedicating myself to the beliefs i have always wanted to follow. my problem lies here - can i worship the norse deities, with which i have a huge connection and follow other paths as well? hedgewitchery etc etc. im trying to read as much as i can get my hands onto but a lot of the pagan books ive been reading only refer to the god and goddess, and dedicating yourself to only them, is there room for more than two gods/goddesses. tbh i think i just need a little guidance. not confident with myself enough to go with my gut instinct. would blessed be and hail together be wrong?

 

Sigridr x

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heh. The one god/one goddess thing is Wiccan (and not all Wiccans - there are Wiccan polythiests out there! :( . There is life beyond duotheism. :P

 

IME, if more than one god is interested in you - go with it. I have three patrons, and one or two other gods who come to call every now and again, and am on friendly terms with a few others. :P

 

you don't have to follow a given religion to be on good terms with a god associated with that religion. they have a tendency to do as they please, regardless of our categories. :P

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Lots of questions!

 

Some pantheons lend themselves more easily to certain practises. I can't tell you if you can combine Norse deities and hedgwitchery because I don't know what your brand of hedgewitchery is. Have you looked into the practises of those who worshipped Norse deities or asked Heathens how they practises their craft?

 

Re the "God" and "Goddess" thing: that's duotheism, what you're talking about with many gods s called Polytheism and there's a lot of us who fall into that category :P

 

I have a strong belief that you don't choose your gods: they choose you.

 

Pay attention to where they're directing you, and stop worrying about the books :P

 

 

Oh, and keep asking questions! :(

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heh. The one god/one goddess thing is Wiccan (and not all Wiccans - there are Wiccan polythiests out there!  :P .  There is life beyond duotheism.  :P

 

IME, if more than one god is interested in you - go with it. I have three patrons, and one or two other gods who come to call every now and again, and am on friendly terms with a few others.  :P

 

you don't have to follow a given religion to be on good terms with a god associated with that religion. they have a tendency to do as they please, regardless of our categories.  :P

327654[/snapback]

 

 

reading wrong books then, tbh what you have just written was my gut feeling. ;) silly sigridr :(;

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To Araminta: no, please, continue  :P    :P

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I didn't need to, Pomona... you just said what I was going to say (only better :()

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Lots of questions!

 

Some pantheons lend themselves more easily to certain practises. I can't tell you if you can combine Norse deities and hedgwitchery because I don't know what your brand of hedgewitchery is. Have you looked into the practises of those who worshipped Norse deities or asked Heathens how they practises their craft?

 

Re the "God" and "Goddess" thing: that's duotheism, what you're talking about with many gods is called Polytheism and there's a lot of us who fall into that category  :P

 

I have a strong belief that you don't choose your gods: they choose you.

 

Pay attention to where they're directing you, and stop worrying about the books :P

 

 

Oh, and keep asking questions!  :(

327658[/snapback]

 

 

will hunt down some heathens as we speak..

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Lots of questions!

 

Some pantheons lend themselves more easily to certain practises. I can't tell you if you can combine Norse deities and hedgwitchery because I don't know what your brand of hedgewitchery is. Have you looked into the practises of those who worshipped Norse deities or asked Heathens how they practises their craft?

 

Re the "God" and "Goddess" thing: that's duotheism, what you're talking about with many gods s called Duotheism and there's a lot of us who fall into that category  :P

 

I have a strong belief that you don't choose your gods: they choose you.

 

Pay attention to where they're directing you, and stop worrying about the books :P

 

 

Oh, and keep asking questions!  :(

327658[/snapback]

 

 

will hunt down some heathens as we speak..

327665[/snapback]

Not literally, I hope. Unless placated with copious amounts of mead Heathens have a tendency to hunt you back :P

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327665[/snapback]

Not literally, I hope. Unless placated with copious amounts of mead Heathens have a tendency to hunt you back :D

327667[/snapback]

 

 

crap i forgot to order the mead *hides behind a rock*

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Re the "God" and "Goddess" thing: that's duotheism, what you're talking about with many gods s called Duotheism and there's a lot of us who fall into that category  :)

 

Oh, and keep asking questions!  :D

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Eh?

 

Am I being thick (DO NOT ANSWER THAT!)

 

I am confused by multiple duotheisms in that sentence!!

 

Ed :D

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I think Polytheism should be the second Duothesim... I think.

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*waves at Pomona*

"hoy get over here and sort out your mess love!"

 

ED

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crap i forgot to order the mead *hides behind a rock*

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not all of us are into mead. :D

 

Seriously, ask away. :)

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crap i forgot to order the mead *hides behind a rock*

327669[/snapback]

 

not all of us are into mead. :D

 

Seriously, ask away. :)

327708[/snapback]

 

Try Talisker?

 

Ed

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crap i forgot to order the mead *hides behind a rock*

327669[/snapback]

 

not all of us are into mead. :D

 

Seriously, ask away. :)

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i set up a new topic heathen practices ^^ but could i pm you with questions or would it be better out in the open as info for other newbies?

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Try Talisker?

 

Ed

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sod Talisker. I'll keep to Lagavulin and an cNoc. :D

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i set up a new topic heathen practices ^^ but could i pm you with questions or would it be better out in the open as info for other newbies?

327710[/snapback]

 

Pm away. though you may find some stuff in the 'pagan paths' forum already on Heathenry.

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Dear Sigridr,

 

you don't have to follow a given religion to be on good terms with a god associated with that religion. they have a tendency to do as they please, regardless of our categories.  :)

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Substituting "tradition" or "path" for "religion", I'd very much agree with that. Pagans generally seem to honour a Goddess or a God if that deity is one they become aware of a connection with, or is one they feel drawn to or touched by, or is one whose realm they feel they are entering into, regardless of whether that God or Goddess is normally associated with their tradition. As MH says, deities don't seem to pay a lot of attention to human categories.

 

There are times and circumstances in which I pray to, and make offerings to, certain of the Aesir and Vanir, even though I'm never likely to be mistaken for a Heathen.

 

I would argue that duotheism is a subcategory of polytheism though. Even strict duotheists are worshipping twice as many deities as monotheists deem acceptable, and it would seem out of keeping with the spirit of polyteism to start dividing us according to the precise number of deities we honour. In practice, and despite the rather misleading impression given by some modern Pagan literature, there don't seem to be many strict duotheists around.

 

BB,

 

John Macintyre

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In practice, and despite the rather misleading impression given by some modern Pagan literature, there don't seem to be many strict duotheists around.

 

BB,

 

John Macintyre

327741[/snapback]

 

 

I like that a lot JM - I would probbaly describe myself as a polytheist in belief (as I believe in many) but a duotheist in practice (as I honour/worship/work with 2)

 

Ed

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Surely witchcraft is just that.....a craft, not in itself a religious path, even though it can be woven into a persons religious beliefs. I suspect witchcraft has been practised by people of all religions over the millenia so I cant see how its practice would be at odds with a religion unless it specifically goes against the tenets of that religion. Even then, it doesnt seem to stop people from practising it as there have been many witches who would consider themselves Christian.

 

I might be wrong here, if so tell me someone.

 

Mike

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Surely witchcraft is just that.....a craft,

 

I might be wrong here, if so tell me someone.

 

Mike

327781[/snapback]

Nope. Not wrong at all :P

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John Mac: I would argue that duotheism is a subcategory of polytheism though. Even strict duotheists are worshipping twice as many deities as monotheists deem acceptable, and it would seem out of keeping with the spirit of polyteism to start dividing us according to the precise number of deities we honour.

 

Eagledance: I would probbaly describe myself as a polytheist in belief (as I believe in many) but a duotheist in practice (as I honour/worship/work with 2)

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I'm going to disagree with you, John <JM heaves a sigh as normality is resumed :) >.

 

I don't view duotheism as a subset of polytheism, but having its own sepcial theology. To use Yvonne Aburrow's description of it:

Duotheism is the in belief two deities, most commonly in a single god and a single goddess, although it can also be used to regard a mutual power between two deities. It is sometimes explained with the phrase, "All the gods are one god and all the goddesses are one goddess," purportedly from the Eleusinian Mysteries.

 

A duotheistic understanding of the divine is often found in popular books about Wicca and neo-Paganism, which often refer to "The Goddess" and her consort, "The God". Nowadays more and more Wiccans are taking a polytheistic stance, as it becomes difficult to sustain syncretism on such a massive scale.

 

(Lifted from Wikipedia as I wrote the original entry on duotheism as far as I can remember - Yvonne Aburrow)

 

If we were to use duotheism to mean "one who is polythiest in principle but who, in practice, only has relationships with two gods" then we remove the whole thing about the duotheistic principle of the two being male/female, as it could be two gods, or two goddesses. We also remove the gods-as-aspects-of-the-one-god/dess concept.

 

I see polytheism where one has a relationship with two gods at the moment as - polytheism. :unsure:

 

Oh, i understand the point you're making - that, once past one god, surely everything becomes polytheism? But it doesn't. I've given a distinction that makes duotheism theologically distinct from, say, henotheism or polytheism. i suppose one might just as well say (and more properly so to my mind) that a polytheist who sticks with two gods is more an extended henotheist than a limited polytheist. But now I'm just being silly! ;)

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Just an interesting observational question here...

 

If Duotheism is the veneration of two gods, primarily male and female, if these gods are seen as a god pair and worshiped together, isn't that becoming just a variation of monotheism, in that the the gods are tied and part of same thing. to use an analogy like yin yang(um/yang).

 

I can see the split if some god pairs as seperate personalities, but you do find some pairs that are so intertwined that you couldn't seperate them which could be seen as them forming a single god with male and female aspects.

 

be interested in peoples thoughts here.

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I think Duotheism, as viewed by many, is more about working with polarity - male energy and female energy - rather than two individual or even collective representations of deity.

 

I guess I would consider myself a Duotheist, in the sense that I tend to work with polarity - sometimes acknowledging one energy as more appropriate than the other, depending on the work and the situation.

 

The two with whom I work vary a lot, and in some circumstances I work in other ways, but fundamentally for me a lot of the energy in magic comes from contrast, at the points when energies are pulling in different directions so I consciously acknowledge duality in my work.

 

I hasten to point out I have done a lot of work with 'queer' magic too, so I'm not taking a heterosexual position here. I think the energies have characteristics which *I* feel to be masculine and feminine and that is how I work with them but this has nothing to do with the physical 'bits' which may be associated with particular God or Goddess forms.

 

hope that makes some kind of sense... back to doing what I was supposed to be doing on the computer now :)

 

bb

Kitty

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Dear MH,

 

I'm going to disagree with you, John <JM heaves a sigh as normality is resumed  :blink: >.

 

I don't view duotheism as a subset of polytheism, but having its own sepcial theology. To use Yvonne Aburrow's description of it:

Duotheism is the in belief two deities, most commonly in a single god and a single goddess, although it can also be used to regard a mutual power between two deities. It is sometimes explained with the phrase, "All the gods are one god and all the goddesses are one goddess," purportedly from the Eleusinian Mysteries.

 

A duotheistic understanding of the divine is often found in popular books about Wicca and neo-Paganism, which often refer to "The Goddess" and her consort, "The God". Nowadays more and more Wiccans are taking a polytheistic stance, as it becomes difficult to sustain syncretism on such a massive scale.

 

(Lifted from Wikipedia as I wrote the original entry on duotheism as far as I can remember - Yvonne Aburrow)

 

If we were to use duotheism to mean "one who is polythiest in principle but who, in practice, only has relationships with two gods" then we remove the whole thing about the duotheistic principle of the two being male/female, as it could be two gods, or two goddesses. We also remove the gods-as-aspects-of-the-one-god/dess concept.

 

I see polytheism where one has a relationship with two gods at the moment as - polytheism. :lol:

 

Oh, i understand the point you're making - that, once past one god, surely everything becomes polytheism? But it doesn't. I've given a distinction that makes duotheism theologically distinct from, say, henotheism or polytheism. i suppose one might just as well say (and more properly so to my mind) that a polytheist who sticks with two gods is more an extended henotheist than a limited polytheist. But now I'm just being silly! :lol:

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I like and respect Yvonne a great deal. She was one of the first Pagans I got to know who was really interested in theology, but I'd respectfully point out that syncretism, albeit on a more limited scale, is also a feature of 'classical' polytheism, where many people seem to have equated other culture's deities with their own. Still, it's great fun and I do like your idea of "extended henotheism", which probably covers most of us polytheists anyway.

 

The point I was really trying to make though is that there's a difference between beliefs and believers, especially within Paganism. IME, most Pagans do not approach mystical experience with a determination to force it into a pre-existing theological framework. Theological possibilities largely struggle along in the wake of that experience, and if its accepted that no human mind could possibly have complete and accurate knowledge of a deity, it's not surprising that people often draw on a range of theologies at different times to try to articulate their understanding of it. Within the conventional Western-monthotheistic approach to religion, only one theological model can be right and all others must therefore be denied as wrong. Within Paganism, which has a more realistic acceptance of the limits of human understanding, that doesn't really apply. Margot Adler's view that polytheism is more than the recognition of many deities, it is an acceptance that reality is multiple and diverse, has a great deal to recommend it.

 

Best Wishes,

 

John Macintyre

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Just an interesting observational question here...

 

If Duotheism is the veneration of two gods, primarily male and female, if these gods are seen as a god pair and worshiped together, isn't that becoming just a variation of monotheism, in that the the gods are tied and part of same thing.   to use an analogy like yin yang(um/yang).

 

be interested in peoples thoughts here.

328268[/snapback]

 

That was what I was going to say. If you are going to have a belief-system concentrating on duality, then you have a Goddess/God duality. Yin/Yang pretty well sums it up for me. I've long thought that European paganism is the counterpart of Taoism. It's not the same, but it's similar enough, bearing in mind the differences in approach.

 

Gods are gods. It's a personal thing. Go with whoever you feel a connection with. Or none.

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