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Guest silvergirl

What's It Take To Be A Real, Proper Witch? - just wondering

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Guest very

Well I'm not wiccan, but can I hit you anyway? Just for the fun of it? :(

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Guest Dave

Of course you can, but do it gently please.

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Fortuna

To me a Witch is a worker of magic. Simple as that. A Witch works with natural powers and energies.

 

There are no ethics that go with Witchcraft. Ethics or a sense of morality depends on the individual.

 

A Witch does not work with Gods as they believe that natural powers are predictable, not reliant on the will, moods and tempers of Gods and Goddesses.

 

I have never understood how Wiccans can also be Witches as they use spells and rituals to appeal to their Goddess or God to acheive their aims. A Witch cuts out the middle man and works directly with nature. This seems to me to be a fundemental difference in how they view the world.

 

mike

 

mike

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Guest Dave

Can I tentatively offer a possible partial explanation...... :o_cry:

A Witch does not work with Gods as they believe that natural powers are predictable, not reliant on the will, moods and tempers of Gods and Goddesses.
Maybe that depends upon how we view "the gods". Whilst I personally see certain deities as individuals with individual personalities, at the same time I tend to think of them very much as expressions of nature. I think that's why there is such a huge diversity in individual interpretations and recognitions of "the gods".

 

It's no more difficult for me personally to percieve the natural forces around me as having "personality" and "mood"...Mountain Storm and Wind, Summer Breeze and hot humid woodlands, etc. than it is difficult to percieve the gods as having personality and mood in a similar way.

 

For me; I can't really separate the two concepts convincingly enough to let go of the idea.

 

I see witchcraft as working with the natural forces that surround us and therefor as equally working with the gods to some extent.

 

I don't think that "the gods" and "natural forces" including that illusive energy that some see as "magic" via various explanations that we have recently discussed with interesting diversity of idea's, are in any way mutually exclusive in fact quite the reverse.

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gypsimoon

;) Agrees with Dave. I tend to see myself as a Witch in some ways. Although I don't 'worship' the God and Goddess I do respect and honor them as they were seen to the ancient cultures. I love nature and animals and have respect for them as well and I try to work with the energies both seen and unseen.

 

In times of difficulty, I seem to notice things that are helpful, whether it's an article, a plot in a movie, a dream or something in nature that I focus in on, a syncranacity of sorts that sparks some mental energy. An example of this is that I was worried about finances and how I can continue to afford my apt. with the death of Mom as she helped with the rent. I figured it out and it will be tight, but a few days of worrying, then suddenly I applied for a freelance writing job and got it, so extra money is coming in now. This isn't just coincidence because this sort of thing happens all the time, especially if I'm focusing in on a problem.

 

I also tend to 'feel' if I'm in danger or if I've made a mistake with something. It just tends to 'noodle' my brain until I go back and do something about it. I've learned over the years to use this more and more and to pay attention to my instincts as they are almost always right. That in itself took a long time for me to come to terms with as I have something of a scientific mind and it was difficult for me to learn to use other forms of learning.

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Fortuna
It's no more difficult for me personally to percieve the natural forces around me as having "personality" and "mood"...Mountain Storm and Wind, Summer Breeze and hot humid woodlands, etc. than it is difficult to percieve the gods as having personality and mood in a similar way.

 

For me; I can't really separate the two concepts convincingly enough to let go of the idea.

51399[/snapback]

 

 

I see what you mean here, and I certainly haven't really thought it through myself. I can understand the notion of ascribing properties to certain natural forces. To describe them as having personalities, though, seems to me to deify them in some way or at least be along the path of deification. Natural laws are natural laws and do not change. Properties in nature which are the result of "personalities" would seem to me to be changeable as they are at the whim of capricious deities. This seems to be a fundemental difference in outlook between those Pagans with a sense of deity, and those, like Witches who work magic, but have no Gods or Goddesses.

 

Not beating a drum here, its just a sticking point that I have been pondering a while and can't quite figure out myself yet.

 

mike

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Guest Dave

No banging of drums here either...been there...done that....got the T Shirt....and the bruises.... :) This is just the way that I see it:

To describe them as having personalities, though, seems to me to deify them in some way or at least be along the path of deification.
I really don't have a problem with that idea, in fact, for me, it is exactly those natural forces that I deify. I can't separate those natural forces at all from "the gods"....the deities.

 

For me; the natural forces are the "the deities" and the the deities are "the natural forces" including the elusive force that we describe as magic and that I see as no more than an extension of, and generally unrecognised part of those forces.

Natural laws are natural laws and do not change.
Of course they are but are still subject to an infinite variety of expression..."mood"..."personality".

 

I am the same person no matter what mood I might be in on any particular day or at an any particular time, whether that be argumentative, obnoxious, opinionated or just generally pissed off for whatever reason :)

would seem to me to be changeable as they are at the whim of capricious deities.
...for my money in exactly the same way that 200,000 people died a month ago around the Indian Ocean at the capricious whim of the the earths natural forces.
This seems to be a fundemental difference in outlook between those Pagans with a sense of deity, and those, like Witches who work magic, but have no Gods or Goddesses.
I don't really see that all "magic working " witches do so without a recognition of deities and their possible effects upon the craft. I also see that many "magic working" witches do so with intentful knowledge of the effects that deities might have upon their craft. (Edit...11.40 02.02.05: Please note..I intentionally use the word "recognition" rather than "petition".)

 

I really don't think, personally, that the possibly distinct idea's of Deities, Natural Forces and Magic can be in any way separated from each other, either within "witchcraft" or Paganism generally.

 

My spirituality is very much earth based and to attempt to separate them just doesn't work at all for me. I just can't do it.

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Guest very

Mmmm, I have to say, that while I certainly don't worship any diety, I do acknowledge the Lord and Lady, and I even sometimes spend time meditating on them etc, howver, I am a witch, and yes I believe I can work and do work with the natural forces directly, that I don't need to petition some god or goddess... but sometimes, I think it can give you a little added boost.

 

And besides, I refuse to be bound by what is considered "A Witch" I will study, work, and appeal to whomever or whatever I please. A Witch, any pagan, for that matter, is continually growing and learning, and will adapt and use those practises that appeal and work.

 

I really don't care whether other people see me as a Witch or not, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm me.

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Guest Black Panther

OK been reading this thread with some interest and I will be chaging my profile after this post.

 

When I first joined UKP I classed myself as Wiccan. Over time (which I know isin't that long but lots of things have happened in my life) I realised I wasn't Wmeant for the Wiccan following.

 

So I guess now I would class myself my as a eclectic(sp?) than anything else. I am who I am and what I am. I believe in nature and try to be as close as possible to it. I try and be a good a person as possible but now when someone hurts me or mine with intention I'm not scared to make sure they get what they deserve. Yes could be seen as a bad side but I don't do that unless I'm really pushed.

 

That was one of the real major things that showed me that the Wiccan path is not for me.

 

I am a Wicth but like others have said I live by my rules so to speak. I repeact nature and be good person as said before. Sometimes magic is used but more often than not I let things happen as they do.

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Guest fuzi

I've only managed to skim read what Dave and Mike have said, so if I've missed something, shoot me :lol:

 

There are laws of nature where we know that situation X will lead to reaction Y, most of the time. This is nice and logical, and makes sense. But the same is true of people. I know that if I'm in this situation, or that, then I'll probably react in a certain way. I wouldn't say that there's any real personification going on by finding the gods and nature totally linked, just a logical progression. But then, I believe in the god of the washing machine and the god of the traffic lights, so it may be that I'm talking nonsense.

 

If that made no sense, sorry, but I've still got a rotten cold, so be nice. :lol:

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Fortuna
If that made no sense, sorry, but I've still got a rotten cold, so be nice. :D

51919[/snapback]

 

Ah now Fuzi, would that cold be the result of pure natural process, or the will of a deity. Surely there is a fundemental difference as if it is the work of a deity, it is a consious decision that has been made to give you a cold. If the work of nature alone then it is purely random.

 

Haven't really sussed this out yet, but I feel there is a fundemental difference in world view in there somewhere!

 

Hope your cold improves (whether by natural process, or by the will of the Gods)

 

mike :D

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Guest fuzi

I'm blaming my boss for the cold, as she insists on having the window open and the fans on to cool her hot flushes. :D

 

I'm totally open to the idea that the gods are totally random rather than making conscious decisions, maybe it's more reflex than thought?

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warlok

:) dont know if anyone really values my opinion, think im coming across as annoying, B) :o_rofl: but any way, I have a little short saying that is say to myself ... i found it on here actualy but made it personal to me....

 

my belief is pagan

my understanding is eclectic

my practice is witchcraft

my way is the power

my life is magick

i am a worlok/wizard/magician

 

(the reason why i chose the turm warlok for male witch is because, it feels right i guess and when i first started working with energy and magick a friend, whos family were heavily involved in spiritualism, magick and the ocult called me a warlok i guess it just keept pocking me till i accepted it.) :)

 

i guess what im trying to say is that its always a personal thing, if ur inner self is screeming witch then embrace it.

:)

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Moonhunter
To me a Witch is a worker of magic.  Simple as that.  A Witch works with natural powers and energies.

 

There are no ethics that go with Witchcraft.  Ethics or a sense of morality depends on the individual.

 

A Witch does not work with Gods as they believe that natural powers are predictable, not reliant on the will, moods and tempers of Gods and Goddesses.

51323[/snapback]

 

Mike, what words would you use to describe someone, like me (though I'm not Wiccan) who works with one or more of her gods when creating a piece of magic. If I'm not a witch, what am I? If I don't 'do' withcraft, what do I do?

 

In my own religion (Heathenry) the word used by the Anglo Saxon to describe someone like me is witch. Indeed, the word "wicce" is Anglo Saxon, though its not the only word used to describe a witch, and there could be specific words for types of magic. However, if you feel I can't describe myself as a witch or as doing witchcraft, what words should I use, in you opinion?

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Xalle

I am a witch. I do not believe in gods. I practice magick.

 

Thats me summed up nicely! lol

 

Being a witch, what makes a witch?? Hmmm.. good question. I think that theres a difference between being someone who follows a pagan path and uses magick within that path and actually being a witch.

 

For me a Witch is someone who is tuned into using the universal energies around us. Is aware of the flipside of the looking glass and walks with feet in both worlds as it where. Hmmm... not a very good explanation is it?

 

I dont think you can learn to be a witch. I think you are either born one or your not. Im not saying that it is hereditory, that your mother has to be one or your grandmother although that does happen, I think its like a quirk.. like red hair. We are all born with all the senses, all the awareness and as most of us get older we loose that "other" sense. Some of us dont and in others it becomes more atuned. You can certainly learn magick.. well.. some magick.. relevant to your path, but I dont think that makes you a witch.

 

*sigh* I give up.. lol

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Guest Tas Mania
Well - hopefully not Very and I did say " maybe these aren't your intentions ". But I do get fed up with the attitude I previously described and makes me sad to see some people worry and get all hung up on finite definitions.

 

I would say in my own completely subjective opinion that thought, study, practise, truthfulness, learning, respect, lack of arrogance, learning and a sense of responsibility make a " proper witch " and not whether you use a pointy wooden stick with skybluepink spots on facing east every second Monday of the month whilst singing Baa Baa Black Sheep and standing on one leg.

47918[/snapback]

 

Lady Cat Crimson, you got one part wrong! TRUE witchery requires the singing of "Baa Baa PINK Sheep"!

The number of legs being in contact with terra firma is optional. Just watch ye don't fall over, tryin' to leep the other 3 up! :)

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warlok

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. [paraphrased]

Buddha said this.

 

names, lables and titles are all just meaningless distinctions. " In the sky there is no distinction of east or west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true." :D

 

So practice magick in any way you feel, test it, study it, follow religious riuals if like and call your self by any name that you like.

 

a name that which you call a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet!

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Guest Quasizoid
I am a witch. I do not believe in gods. I practice magick.

 

Oh Xalle, don't despair, I always love it when you say that! :D

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Xalle
Oh Xalle, don't despair, I always love it when you say that! :blink:

159757[/snapback]

 

*blush* its a drum I seem to be banging a LOT recently. I fear the rolling of eyes when i do too! :rolleyes:

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Guest Silenus

All

 

It's certainly very important for academics to define an area of work or study. You couldn't write a thesis on "Neurologists" which turned out to actually be a study on "Podiatrists" because of some confusion about the definition of 'feet' and 'heads', I guess! However, I don't know many Witches who would be able to consistently self-define themselves, as other posters here have mentioned!

 

There's then the issue of Paganism, Neo-Paganism, Wicca, New Age, and other labels, including the dark depths of Gay-Faerie-Dark-Solitary-Hedge-Witchcraft. And what about the differences between Alexandrians and Gardnerians, or Traditional (although when I first started, twenty years ago, the joke was "I've met lots of hereditary witches, but never their parents", I suspect that might have changed by now)!

 

It eventually devolves like music - you get down to a category of "Neo-Ambient-Dark-Jazz-Fusion-Trip-Hop" which actually only relates to one group (*) - much like you are the only Witch like you!

 

There's common features to Witchcraft Beliefs and Practices - the role and relationship of Man/Woman and Nature, the pantheistic/polytheistic principles, the place of a magical worldview (and don't get me started on defining magic; one academic has "defined" esotericism with 4 +/- 2 'components', and it seems to have stuck; I prefer Crowley's simple "Art and Science of causing change to occur in conformity with Will") and the observations of seasonal, solar and lunar cycles through astronomical and agricultural events.

 

The expression of these principles is more individualistic than in other religious practices, hence the difficulties pinning down the common "How do I know I'm a Witch" experience. The best Witch I know (German, Herbalist, couldn't stop the Goddess coming through her if you beat her with a stick, sense of humour that could have been the prototype for Granny Weatherwax, forty years before Pratchett) sometimes doubts her credentials because she didn't know what a "moot" was, nor seemed to understand why the people at the "moot" were talking about "crystal healing" or "Chakras". :blink:

 

The Universe has only ever made one of you, never has before, never will again, you are as unique as your own fingerprint - get to know your own Nature, and the Nature of Nature, and you'll find Witchcraft will likely find you before you find it.

 

In the Great Work

 

Silenus

 

(*) Portishead :rolleyes:

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Guest Tas Mania

Wisdom.

Inner calm, knowledge, plus instinct.

Tenacity!

Care, caution.

Healing, helping.

? :rolleyes:

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Guest RamsHart

Could it go like this...

Spirit Magic - Envoking or asking the dietys for help in your ritual. If your happy with it, call yourself a witch.

Earth Magic - Envoking or using the Earth in your rituals. Again , if you want to call yourself a witch, go for it.

Mechanical magic - Using defined laws in your rituals, Probably better known as modern science. I don't think these guys would want to be labeled as witchs. :rolleyes:

Just a thought.

bb

R.Hart

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Guest Quasizoid
Mechanical magic - Using defined laws in your rituals, Probably better known as modern science. I don't think these guys would want to be labeled as witchs.  <_<

 

Quite right, that one comes under "Techno-Shamanism", though that depends on the nature of one's appliances... :)

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Guest Lucy

What is a "witch", truly, and how would the average person (like me) go about becoming one and being one?

Please feel free to add your two cents. The more feedback from real witches, the better. smile.gif

 

Well, I don't consider myself a witch because my definition of it is someone who works magic spells all the time (or pretty regularly) to achieve things or goals. But I never could bring myself to believe in it, I would destroy every spell with pessimism.

 

So... if you (who wrote this seven years ago, lol) want to become a witch then learn spells, maybe start with candle magic. Keep the beginning easy and look where your interests will take you.

 

Lucy

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Pomona

Now, that is interesting Lucy, that you say that, because I commented in another thread that in my experience - and talking to others - the more experienced the witch, the less magick they actually do. :D

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Guest AnthonyHJ

Wow... Thread necromancy...

 

The original post seems to have an obvious question; what is a witch? That was debated to death and beyond.

 

The subtext worries me, since it seems to be someone following up the original question with a desire to become a witch even though they have little or no idea what a witch is...

 

I mean... (from my perspective) You shouldn't start on the path to become a witch because you want to be a witch, no matter what a witch turns out to be. You should know what you want to be and then (if labels really bother you that much) go searching for the word to describe what you have always been. At the very least, you should be able to say 'I believe X and I want to meet other people who do too' no matter what the word is for what you turn out to be.

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Maeve

In my UPG, you are either a witch or you are not and you will know if you are ... ergo, if you don't know ... you aren't :)

 

and @ Pomona - you are absolutely right, the longer you practice the Craft, the less magic you do, I think, mainly, because you work out how much planning, concentration and energy is needed to succeed and how easily wrong it can all go ........ !

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Moonhunter

the longer you practice the Craft, the less magic you do, I think, mainly, because you work out how much planning, concentration and energy is needed to succeed and how easily wrong it can all go ........ !

 

I'll part with you on calling it The Craft, hun; but otehrwise - spot on. ;)

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