Jump to content
Monica Soto

Welcome Guest!

Welcome to UK Pagan; The Valley

Like most online communities we require you to register for an account before we give you access to read and post.

Only a small number of our forum areas can be read without registering for an account.

Please consider supporting us to help keep our Website and Facebook groups online. Become a Patron!

Is There Anybody There? - am I? aren't I?


Guest LisaLQ
 Share

Recommended Posts

Taken me a while to build up to this so hope I dont come across as a complete pratt.

 

I dont know who/what I am, that's why I joined, and why I've been reading the forums with little to say so far. Had some recent health issues that made me question whether I can continue as a "no denomination", I feel I need something to believe in. I am very self conscious about who and what I believe in and dont believe in, it's always been personal but because of that I've never felt like I fitted anywhere before. Was I christian, or not, etc.

 

I dont believe in the christian God, or the stories told in the bible. I dont agree with organised religion eg having to go to church to speak to your god - if he/she/it is all seeing then you dont need to be in a church to contact him.

 

However I cant say I dont believe in anything, because to me there is something - for the sake of ease that I think of as "god", but not in the sense of a beardy bloke in the sky, more of a protective blanket that is always there, and that I can talk to when I need to (or apologise to when I swear LOL).

 

I very much believe in nature, and that that things dont happen for no reason, eg the world is not some random series of events and creations, although I believe in all the scientific facts so far, I also believe there is a purpose behind it all and something guiding it. But I dont believe in specific or multiple gods and goddesses. Just the one, and even then I dont know if it is or not (hope this makes sense).

 

Like the other person who posted, I really enjoy being outside (although life has meant I pretty much cant as much as I'd love to), and really want to celebrate the changes and cycles in our planet. From reading about the different festivals, they make much more sense to me than the christian ones, and I would happily celebrate them. They feel right. Y'know?

 

So am I? Or is this another one where I dont fit and should I keep looking, or just be satisfied in being me the individual?

 

Crikey - that was a bit deep for this early. Usually takes me two or three coffees to question god! :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please consider supporting us to help keep our Website and Facebook groups online.

as hard as this may be, dont think about it. read up on different paths, go for a walk (or even sit in a garden/park), talk with others on the forum. your answers will eventually come to you. I found that the more i stressed about trying to find something that fitted the mistier it all became.

 

celebrate the seasons, bring things into the home representative of the seasons, if they make you happy then thats whats important. light some candles, maybe incense and just relax. all things come eventually. a watched cauldron never bubbles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest Old Bean I'm not sure what you are asking. When you say, "am i?" are you asking if you are Pagan or not. If this is the case only you will know. All I can say is that you position and beliefs are ones shared by many of the Pagans on this board. There are many here who do not follow established paths, but simply hold a reverance for nature and its wonderful cycles.

 

Why not just take your time and not be in a hurry to find out what you are or are not. Savour the journey and let who you are unfold in good time.

 

All the best.

 

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you've said what you believe. Are you just looking for a label for it? I'd stop worrying about what to call yourself, even if you find a label that fits you'll still end up having to explain it people anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take your time. There's no hurry. just express what you feel at any given time. things change for all of us. :P

 

there's no need to seek a label to express yourself. Not here. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do understand what you're saying, but I do need some sort of label - or at least a vague idea of whether I'm heading in the right direction to work things out.

 

When you say, "am i?" are you asking if you are Pagan or not. If this is the case only you will know.

 

My problem is that I dont know. That's why I'm here. I dont know the first thing about what makes someone pagan, or wiccan, or hindu for that matter, or muslim, or pantheist, or atheist! I guess I'm not trying to find a label, just for someone to tell me that I might be in the right place to work it out. And to teach me more. Or indeed to tell me I'm in the totally wrong place, and why!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My problem is that I dont know.  That's why I'm here.

350572[/snapback]

 

I you don't know then someone else is unlikely to know :lol: You know Lisa, it is not always easy not to have clear answers and it can feel a bit like being adrift on an ocean clinging on to a barrel. What you describe in your opening post is certainly compatible with many peoples approach to Paganism, especially your feeling that there is something more out there and your reverence for nature and its cycles. You do sound perturbed, though, at not having the answers yet....... Well in Paganism it is quite acceptable for people not to have the answers or to spend a nice long time soaking things in and slowly learning what you really are. That is why so many people have said not to rush at it, and to try to enjoy the journey.

 

Try to chill about it all, and taking your time may well save you having to change paths and readjust later on! Don't know if I am putting across what I want to say to you clearly or not...... I hope so.

 

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lisa,

 

Three years ago I went to my first Pagan meeting expecting to find a Declaration of Paganity nailed to the wall. I discovered that we who call ourselves Pagan delight in our acceptance of all the other different beliefs that call themselves Pagan.

It makes it very hard for a searcher.

 

You are looking for a path through the forest when perhaps you need to stop and listen to the trees.

Try this:

Hold one of your rats in your hands.

Look at it and how it moves, how the light catches its fur, how you think it sees the world. All the things that you always think when you hold your rats.

Think about how it makes you feel. If I'm right part of what you will be feeling is what I feel when I see the wind in my ash tree.

You want to label that? O.K.

Then declare yourself to be a Murine Pagan. [i declare myself to be a Bog Standard Pagan!] It will do for now. It can all change as you grow and learn and teach others. Oh yes CAN teach us! Just by talking to us all. Just by saying how something you've seen or heard affects YOU.

 

You may stay a solitary Murine Pagan simply sharing your view with others. You may be impressed by one of the paths that are talked about here and want to join others. Just very very occasionally something convincing may talk directly to you. That hasn't happened to me in three decades of solo Paganism and three years with a group but it has happened to others.

 

I know that the advice to keep still and listen isn't what you want to hear - but its the only advice any of us can give you at this stage. That and be yourself!

 

I feel for you and your frustration but I know what you can discover by being still.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the advise already given above say it all. The more you want a specific label the harder it will make your search. Enjoy the journey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone - you're absolutely right.

 

I'm struggling at the mo, after one (minor) health issue after another, I've had to give up everything I felt made me "me" (no job, no social life, no cigs/booze, and now on a strict diet), and now I'm trying to stay focused and remember how lucky I am and how wonderful my family are, and that's what's important. I just sometimes feel a bit like I'm disappearing. I guess I thought finding something else might bring "me" back.

 

Ho hum - not to bore you with my whinging (I do that a lot - I need to be more positive!), I just wanted to say thanks for talking sense.

 

Sorry for being quiet over the last few days, had my brother in law staying for a couple of weeks on and off, and it's just been so hectic....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hope that the future is better for you, LisaLQ, and there is some excellent advice above (made sense to me as I do the very same thing that you do).

 

I've nothing to add to it, just wanted to give you a ((hug))

Edited by Minty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Lisa, I SO know how you feel!!! I've had fairly definate views about many things for 20 years or more and its very clear that I DON'T belong to specific religions .... but not clear "what" faith I might be. I've have learnt such a lot by browsing around this forum - I received the same frustrating advice to stop worrying about the label and just enjoy the path but it's started to make much more sense. Paganism does seem to be a personal "path". Like you, I would actually "prefer" to have a label - I would be proud to promote it too! As I get to learn more I'm finding that I do have a lot in common with some other people ... but then there will be also some fundamental differences. I think the difference is Pagans don't beat each other up over differences, they actually embrace conversation and learning and acceptance. I heard a great quote the other day: "Put 2 Pagans together and you'll always end up with 3 points of view". Also like you, I'd LOVE for there to be an accepted script - like our version of the bible - it would be comforting and inspirational. A close friend advised me to write my own!!! Seemed like madness, but it's actually VERY therapeutic - you might want to try it! So anyway, in conclusion, stick with this forum Lisa, we are all pulling together in at least one direction as a community and happiness and fulfillment are top of the agenda!! Good luck! W x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you've said what you believe.

350478[/snapback]

 

there's no need to seek a label to express yourself.

350479[/snapback]

 

I can only agree with Gawain and Moonhunter. You explained your beliefs in your posts. And you did that better than many others that I have read. That is what YOU believe, which is just great. And I think you will find out that there are many others out here who feel exactly or almost the same as you.

 

I had this "discussion" already because for me, personally, the most important thing is always the content not the form of our believes and spirituality. Go for it ! And as already has been said in this thread you will find a name to put on your believes, sooner or later, throught reading, talking to people, whatever. But this name is absolutely not the most important part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  I just sometimes feel a bit like I'm disappearing.  I guess I thought finding something else might bring "me" back

351234[/snapback]

 

You're not disappearing......... you're being pruned! And any gardener will tell you that a good pruning promotes growth!

 

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time and going through one of those "bits are dropping off" phases we all have in life. Don't try to cling onto a label though as a way of finding a sense of security (although I understand fully why you might want to). The way you have described your beliefs may not spoonfeed you directions on how to lead your life, but ultimately (if you go with the flow) could be as rewarding as any path with doctrines. Your love of nature and its cycles may not be a good "anchor" but they will maintain you and are something wonderful to build on.

 

I really hope things look up for you soon. Hang in there.

 

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Mike - being pruned - shall remember that! I'm betting you're a glass half full kind of person - I've always been a glass half empty girl, but things are going to change.

 

I think what I'm going to do is play things by ear. Not be so embarrassed or self conscious. See how it feels.

 

This weekend, we're going to walk in the park, paint eggs, have some hot cross buns and plant some seeds. The timing co-incides with the equinox/Ostara/Oestre but I just want to welcome Spring, plus fun time with the kids instead of worrying about their school work, GCSE options, primary school SATS or mood swings :)

 

Must admit in amongst feeling low, I've felt some real sense of hope too - mostly when reading replies from you guys. Hope that doesn't sound too corny! :) :o_claps:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to ask - can anyone recommend some good books for me to look into buying/eBaying or getting from the library?

 

Particularly interested in anything with regards day to day living, cooking, feeling, being - not so interested in ritual (eg alters and spells).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its hard to recommend a book that doesn't shove you down one or other of the established paths but try some of these:-

 

Witch Alone by Marion Green has been a starting point for many of us. It is very readable. There is no need to be a practicing witch [i started with this one and I'm not a Witch!] However it does push in that direction and DOES have alters and spell but for me that wasn't the important bit.

 

Pagan Paths by Pete Jennings describes a number of the standard paths and makes a good job of it. Its by my bed right now.

 

Here I go again - I've recommended "Speaking Earth Listening People" by Graham Harvey so many times here. Don't buy it though - borrow it and just read the first chapter - No one can describe "Paganism" on a written page but his general ideas reflect a hell of a lot about what you will see here on UKP. The later chapters go on to describe the different paths just as Jennings does but in my opinion he does it a bit more academically. If you want the easier read look at Pagan Paths. If you enjoy a more formal style go for Harvey.

 

Mods may want to express an opinion on the next bit!

 

On the day to day stuff, the idea of living a generally Pagan lifestyle why don't you look through this forum and save all the little snippets and ideas that call to you and assemble them into your own note book. UKP even gives you the chapter headings! :( However if I were to do this I would also write my own bits and pieces and when I felt confident enough I'd give back to the Forum.

 

Ha Ha - I've just had an email that with a snippet that speaks to MY Paganism:

 

....not sure when you stop thinking dandelions are beautiful, but figure it's somewhere around the time you get a job & can afford lawn chemicals...... Part of my Paganism is never to stop seeing beautiful dandelions!

Edited by Moonsmith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for your help - it is very much appreciated. I have the Pagan Paths book saved in my watched items on eBay (for payday!), and I'll look up the others too.

 

Thought we'd celebrate the spring equinox/Ostara today to brighten the mood here (our first weekend with nothing planned or to stress over!), and so we painted some eggies!

 

Sophie's eggs...first a tree...

ostaraeggs4.jpg

 

..and then a spiral...

ostaraeggs5.jpg

 

Emma's....flower and sheep...

ostaraeggs2.jpg

 

...same egg different side...

ostaraeggs3.jpg

 

Emma's butterfly

ostaraeggs9.jpg

 

Joe's...erm...well, I think there's a face in there...

ostaraeggs6.jpg

 

Jack's (allegedly Grandma - not sure she'll be that pleased pmsl - and a rainbow)...

ostaraeggs7.jpg

 

Rebecca's Grandma and butterfly

ostaraeggs8.jpg

 

And these two are by the growed ups...(me and Mick)...

ostaraeggs1.jpg

 

ostaraeggs10.jpg

 

We were planning on going for the whole Spring has sprung kind of day - out to the park, paint eggs, plant seeds, etc....but Rebecca (one of our triplets) woke up through the night with croup, then we woke up to chucking it down rain so we couldn't take her out in it, then the toaster we were making hot cross buns in blew all our downstairs fuses, then when we tried to turn computer back on the modem was broken (turned out cable had upgraded up to 50meg without giving us a modem which could cope with it, so they had to downgrade us again)....I think someone was trying to test me today!

 

But still - we've painted eggs and had a really good giggle, there's homemade quiche in the oven and a nice salad to go with it, and we're going to plant plans and seeds tomorrow.

 

Hope anyone else celebrating is enjoying their weekend xx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lisa LQ I love those eggs What on Earth were you worrying about?

 

I have absolutely no right to make any judgment but in my non-judgment you're doing fine!

 

Its a beautiful sunny Sunday here. I'm off up the Nesscliff crag to celebrate Alban Eilir, Ostara, the Vernal Equinox. Please accept and pass on an Equinoctual hug thereby sharing in the hug that we shall pass around the circle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hugs accepted and reciprocated, and spread around the family too :rolleyes:

 

Hope you have a wonderful day - the sun is shining here too, and although I'm not too hot on my feet today I'm going to sit out in the garden and appreciate it! xx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pagan Paths arrived yesterday. I've had a very brief read, and it says that there are pagans who believe in only one overall power, but then doesn't go on to say which path that is. Are there any other good books you can recommend? I'm not giving up on Pagan Paths, as I've only skimmed it, and what I've read is very interesting.

 

Before you say it - I'm not rushing into getting a label, just was genuinely interested in reading more about those who believe in one "god" - perhaps with many different faces for different "purposes"...this isn't coming out right or making sense is it, sorry... :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you ever thought of going to the other end of the spectrum [which of course is a circle :D so you end in the same place :blush: . Oh get on with it Pat. :rolleyes:

 

OK have you ever looked at Pantheism?

 

http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Pantheism

 

Edited to add that Harvey does discuss Pantheism briefly in a couple of his books but not in detail

Edited by Moonsmith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bum! Out of edit time.

 

I know Pantheist Witches and Pantheist Druids as well as Pantheist Pantheists. Its recent condemnation by the Pope may recommend it to some.

 

Have you seen Avatar [yet] Some Pantheists see that as a Pantheist statement. I'm not sure about that but enjoyed it like a big kid!

Edited by Moonsmith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is something I've read about, but from what I've read (as they are my sister's beliefs) pantheists believe god is in everything, not seperate or the creator.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bet you're getting sick of all my questions and pestering now sorry - but there's another question.

 

Urgh, how to word it politely....

 

Ok. Do pagans take their deities as fact - eg they actually exist - each seperately in it's own right, or do they believe they are faces we've made throughout history to explain actual physical events or use for purposes we needed them for.

 

Eg. I can accept there is a higher power we've not explained yet, what I'd call God (mainly because I'm used to learning about Christianity). I dont believe in individual gods and goddesses, but I am able to see why they were adopted as explanations for natural events (eg light, dark, seasons, etc) or to be the face to ask for help (eg harvests, growing crops, rain etc). I can celebrate the god and goddesses union as to me it is a beautiful story to explain the spring, but I dont take it literally.

 

Do you get what I mean? Hope I'm not completely undecipherable or rude. :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok.  Do pagans take their deities as fact - eg they actually exist - each seperately in it's own right, or do they believe they are faces we've made throughout history to explain actual physical events or use for purposes we needed them for.

 

353235[/snapback]

 

The answer would depend on which pagan you ask. My answer would be "no, they don't actually exist", whereas my friend Birka may disagree with me. What matters is the understanding and relationship YOU develop with deity/the universe/yourself, not what we think.

 

Good luck with your search.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do pagans take their deities as fact - eg they actually exist - each seperately in it's own right, or do they believe they are faces we've made throughout history to explain actual physical events or use for purposes we needed them for.

 

As has been said, some do; some don't. Some pagans believe they are facets of a single god or a goddess; some believe they are facets of the unimaginable; some believe they are archetypes - that they are 'a god of thunder' or 'a god of the sun' or whatever. Some pagans are pantheists, some apnentheistist, some henotheists, some duotheists, some polytheists, some animists and some atheists (apologies to anyone I've left out! :unsure: )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok.  Do pagans take their deities as fact - eg they actually exist -

353235[/snapback]

 

Do Christians? Do Muslims? What all of them? :unsure:

There are Christian Priests who don't.

 

I do hope that you are not looking for "The Truth". That is the most dangerous word in Theological, Philosophical or Scientific debate. [Einstein sought truth, Bohr denied it him. :D ]

Rather than looking for a God you may get further by recording your view of how the universe works. That's why I am a Pantheist Pagan - it is for me the best explanation of how it all fits together. It's my personal view but it is every bit as valid as any tenet held in Canterbury, the Vatican, Jerusalem, Rhiad or Nepal [or Bejing or Moscow]

 

No one KNOWS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, nothing wrong in searching out Truth, as long as you understand that it can only be YOUR Truth, and that there are many Truths which other people may subscribe to :unsure:

 

Using as an example your earlier query about Pagans accepting deity as fact, my own understanding and experience is that yes, deity is fact, and many deities are fact. But I accept that for others, there may be no deity, or just one, or whatever. It's all true for the person experiencing and I would never seek to persuade anyone to turn to my way of thinking :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Earthdragon
      Rather than avoiding the forgetting of their deity, maybe one can use ritual to say hello in a formal way. In between times there can be all the more casual familiarity that is befitting the relationship.
    • Moonsmith
      One of the issues of long membership here is that we oldies - sorry, long serving members - have given answers to a lot of the questions raised here many times.  That’s not a bad thing and if I look back to 2009 I can see that my Paganism might have shifted but my way of expressing it is vastly different.  So:  Something that hasn’t been asked for a bit. Something that everyone can answer however new or established.  What IS Paganism in 2021?  Why are we Pagans at all?  Do we have anything in common? “We” is all of us, with or without labels or groups.
    • Moonsmith
      I was thinking exactly that as I read the earlier part of your post.  If you know what effect you are striving for it must be easier to focus on the task.  Nothing to do with ritual or mindfulness but if you get chance, video bats in slomo.  Then replay with the sound on.  It’sa beautiful way to contemplate the little animals.
    • Ellinas
      That could be an interesting experiment...
    • Stonehugger
      I imagine the repetition of doing something regularly, using a clock or the sun or whatever, could contribute to its meaning and significance. For me, making coffee using a slow technique such as an aeropress has a sense of ritual about it which isn't there with instant coffee or a nespresso machine, but maybe that's because I overlap ritual with mindfulness, and it's easier to be mindful when the activity takes long enough to create some mental space (although, come to think of it, reframing the time something takes can be a useful exercise, such as the sequence of senses evoked by snapping your fingers if you can slow it down enough in your head perhaps. I'm now wondering about filming myself in slow motion snapping my fingers...
×
×
  • Create New...