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Respect For Others In Online Groups


Guest arcadia89
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sorry if ive put this in the wrong place but it seemed better than in the snug as maybe there will be other newbies on this page who has had an experience like this.

 

we have recently had a situation come up on the doncaster pagans facebook page, where a person new to the craft and not quite sure yet where she fits in, asked a question about what the definition of a heathen was, and everyone gave her honest and open answers and obviously everyones opinion on the word is different.

after reading these answers (and doing some research on her own) she came back and commented that she didnt feel she fell into this catergory as heathen but was now leaning more towards druidry and wicca.

 

at this point the problems started as a veteran (im going to refer to her as J) who's not in doncaster but has a coven elsewhere and a group page of their own started commenting and making not only her but other members too very uncomfortable, basically making a mockery of anyone who practices wicca (and im sorry i cant get you any direct quotes of what she said as the post was deleted under my suggestion as one of the admins)

 

when another admin joined in and started defending this poor girl, who by her comments was getting very upset at practically being laughed at, J then started having a go at her, saying she will have to get used to this as wiccans are always being made fun of and its better she hears it now, basically escalated into a full argument between admin and J, with admin trying to end the post and asking her to stop being so rude, and J who from my understanding is at least over 30 and therefore knows how to behave like an adult, was being very petulant and trying to keep it going as long as possible.

 

therefore my question is this? as admins on the group how are we supposed to deal with these types of situation? im not sure how well a warning system would work with facebook and we cannot remove her from the group for a very sticky reason.

the main admin and founder of the group, is her friend, used to be in her group before relocating to doncaster and vouched for her staying in the group when it was first formed as she is a useful contact for pagan festivals.

 

thoughts anyone?

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I've got no experience of this and understand what you say about not having a warning system, but how about suggesting to everyone involved (not just J) take it off the group and sort it out by email?

 

That might be a stupid idea that you may not want to do, but it's what I would personally do in your situation :)

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you can make me a member and I really will raise Hell with them - just a way out of thye trouble...and there was me being so good of late too...LOKI is around

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the admins were emailing each other trying to sort it, but as usual i wasnt online until it had almost finished, and to be honest until i suggested it i dont think it had occured to them to delete the post. and when you say sort it out by email do you mean J and the admin just continue to bitch at each other by email? lol coz i dont think that would really help us much.

im more concerned with a way we can stop this from happening again, doncaster pagans is relatively new and we are trying to boost our membership so we can have moots on a regular basis, which isnt going to happen if a veteran from another group belittles the newbies and makes them feel uncomfortable.

im just hoping she read the other comments of support from other members and hasnt let this online experience put her off.

 

and chris, that wouldnt work, your staying away from facebook, remember? lol thanks for the offer though

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From what I've seen of other groups - there should be group rules posted on the Fb group, which should include "respect others". If the rule is broken continually, the member should be removed from the group immediately!

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From what I've seen of other groups - there should be group rules posted on the Fb group, which should include "respect others". If the rule is broken continually, the member should be removed from the group immediately!

 

 

with extreme prejudice :o_angry: :o_angry: :o_angry: :o_angry: :o_angry: :o_angry: :o_angry:

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yes but there is still the sticky problem of the main admin and J being friends. we have suggested it to her and she is now a bit miffed off with both of us. im hoping to be able to bring it up in person on our open day on sunday, hoping she will be able to see reason and how J's comments may have hurt us as a group.

but im definitely suggesting the group rules page, its a good idea and will give us a framework to build on if anything like this happens again.

honestly i think this took us all by surprise a bit, the only problems we've had since we started was getting members to turn up to moots lol

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I haven't got a clue then, sorry Arcadia! Is there any way the admins can moderate posts before they're posted or anything like that?

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sorry i have to bog off for a bit now, dont mean to leave when ive asked for advice, but ive got to get my sons tea on and hes been bugging me for the laptop and i promised him he could have it half an hour ago, hes now terrorizing the cats as hes bored.

 

will be back later

 

lol amandageorge we are starting that, as from yesterday posts are now approved by us, unfortunately we cannot do the same for comments people leave

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Ah right... maybe move the group over to Yahoogroups so that you can moderate everything or to a forum like this so that you can warn people if/when you need to?

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therefore my question is this? as admins on the group how are we supposed to deal with these types of situation? im not sure how well a warning system would work with facebook and we cannot remove her from the group for a very sticky reason.

the main admin and founder of the group, is her friend, used to be in her group before relocating to doncaster and vouched for her staying in the group when it was first formed as she is a useful contact for pagan festivals.

 

OK, FB presentst problems. Yes opening posts can be vetted, but comments can't.

 

The way we deal with the normal situation on the UKP FB page is this:

- we have a mod admin FB group where the mods can discuss things away from the main FB page, so we can decide on a course of action.

- if we feel that a post is out of order, we can delete it. Then we say that back on the admin group and why, and discuss it.

- if a poster continually posts out of order stuff, we delete their membership of the group. Life's just too short and all that. If FB gave more options, we might give more leeway, but as I say, we're in a different situaion from an email group or a forum.

 

OK, your real problem is not the posts but the favouritism by the main mod. Yes? In that case, as a mod, you either reason with her and get her to see that favouritism destroys groups. Eventually, the only people left are those the person making the decisions likes, and they get to say what they want. It ceases to be a group for everyone and is a group of cronies.

 

If she refuses to efect J, then you either accept you are modding a group where some people are more equal than others, or you walk. It really depends on how you feel about fairness.

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honestly moonhunter, lately i have been thinking more of walking, it is starting to turn more into a group just to advertise the new shop, and some of the things in the shop i disagree with, like having mediums round doing one on one sessions for £40. i understand thet have to make money too to keep the shop running, i just think we should be having more courses to teach people how to do it, rather than inviting members, some of whom have been practicing for over 20 years and can converse with spirits perfectly fine by themselves, to have a session done with a 'proper' medium.

 

also seen as i cannot be on facebook 24/7 i am finding myself pushed out more and more. i can see it will get to the point where i just go to moots and use the shop for buying purposes and just step back as admin.

 

however, im not giving up yet, and i am going to suggest some of these ideas on sunday when i can meet the other admins face to face

(oh and i should mention, we have other admins as well linked with our other pages, we now have dp kitchen group, dp ritual group, south yorkshire pagans traders page, and the mystical offerings which is the page for the shop. but i think some of these rules would be good on all of them)

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We've had to work through a lot, hun - and I've not only been a mod here, but a mod or owner of other groups, and a real life trade union chair for years. It isn't easy to maintain fairness, but it's the only thing, in the end, that will create a group of equals, who can demonstrate respect.

 

The main difficulty I've always come across is that many people, once in power, prefer to exercise favouritism. It may be called many names, and supported by many reasons - but it always means that some people can beat up others without punishment. That means the creation of fear and resentment in others, and the destruction of the group. It doesn't matter what the intentions of the person encouraging unfairness might be - the act of encouraging or permitting unfairness will undermine everything.

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yup dont i know it. i think another thing thats held against me slightly is my age too, a lot of olders members dont seem to respect my opinion because im so much younger, even though i have been practicing for as long or in some cases longer than some of them.

 

but either way, it will sort itself out eventually. i think after all these years of practicing alone im better alone, can work well with others, but more comfortable in my own space. but we will see what happens, and what the admins make of my suggestions

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Well as you know I'm a mod here, but am officially and admin on our FB pages (having a bit of a break at the mo). I have to agree with Moonhunter. You can't always moderate a FB page as well as you can a forum like this, so you have to be blunter and willing to delete posts. The problem is that you have a lead mod who, for whatever reason, has an interest in letting things be. Unfortunately the group members will see this straight away and will believe the group to be a clique..... and in some ways they would be right.

 

It's about integrity really. Do you want to be part of a site where a person can be nasty to a newbie because they have connections to the mods? You are young and going to be active in the Pagan World for many years to come potentially..... how do you want others to view you?

 

It's a horrible situation you're in and I don't envy you one bit, but if you cannot change things for the better then it might be better to vote with your feet and be able to sleep well at night.

 

All the best with it.

 

Mike

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thanks mike, like i said earlier, im going to wait til sunday when we are all face to face and i can make some of these suggestions to all the admins of our groups, that way if they do take me seriously and we initiate these rules, we will have something to fall back on and if the main mod does show favoritism towards certain members who are breaking them, we should either be able to overrule her, or hopefully make her see our side of it.

i just dont want it to be a case of she has a hissy fit and takes her toys home kind of situation, she did start the group and while i feel mean for calling out one of her friends for inappropriate behaviour, i dont know how she couldnt see what harm it was doing.

i literally had to comment on the post saying 'sorry to ******* who started this thread, but i do suggest we delete this to stop the argument' and it wasnt until i'd suggested that, that it actually got deleted, about 20 comments above were just J and admin back and forth.

and im absolutely horrified of what image that has put across about us now to those members that did read it

 

and honestly, if i thought there were enough of us close by, i would just branch off and start my own, as i dont give anyone special treatment even if they are my friends, and have no trouble being blunt to trouble makers, which has gotten me in trouble before with the DP, just because it was toward someone with connections.

 

id rather just make connections of my own through the people i meet at moots and other places, and somehow find a spell to age myself about 20 years, just to get people to actually listen and respect my ideas and opinions lol

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There you go..... I've just cast an ageing spell for you to age you 20 years. It's very slow working I'm afraid (about 20 years. Sorry I must have skimmed past the bit about Sunday. Your plan sounds perfect really and I wish you all the best with it. Takes courage to stick your neck out, but its usually worth it.

 

Mike

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yup, luckily we dont live in the time anymore where people have axes ready to chop it off, though when i bring the subject up i will ensure its in a room away from athames lol

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sounds like one those defining momemnts coming up.....gloves off, cards on the table plain speaking, Home truths, verbal punchup and finally tears before bedtime

 

sometimes its the only way to clear the air.....

 

At the moment the group sounds poisonous....more an "Old Girls Club" than anything else

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I can sympathise. I'm an "editor" on a website which is very much like a this forum to all intents and purposes, but because it started as a sub-group of another site (long story) the format is bit more like Facebook. People publish articles/blogs and then other people comment on them. An article can be anything from a couple of thousand words to a single line. We're "editors" for historical reasons, but in practice we're mods who post more articles than most!

 

We're constrained by the technology of the site - we can block articles, but not comments. We've found that we need pretty strict rules to cope with this. People are (usually) allowed two transgressions. The second time they are warned that if it happens again they will be banned. Often bans are time limited - between a month and six months, if the offence is bad enough it's a lifetime ban. Anything racist, sexist, homophobic or inciting illegal behaviour is an immediate ban. No exceptions to the rules.

 

The rules are posted on the site and made clear to everyone who joins up. On the whole we don't have much trouble, but interestingly we've found of the people who get time limited bans about 50% never return and the 50% who do return very, very rarely offend again.

 

I think that your real problem though is the position of the group admin. It's always difficult when someone has set something up - they're bound to feel ownership. However, as time goes on groups start to be owned by their members and it can be very difficult sometimes for the founder to accept that. I think the question that you need to ask yourself is do you want to stick around and help to strengthen the group so it takes ownership of itself or have you reached the point where you need to walk away to preserve your own sanity. Neither option is right or wrong in itself. The right option is what you want to do.

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for now at least im sticking with it, ive been part of this group since its beginning, and it doesnt feel right to just walk away, not to mention ive added a few members myself, not just friends, but others ive found in other groups wanting to come to moots close to them, even one of the members off here who messaged me when he realized i was just in the next village lol.

 

and besides, not everyone is holding my age against me, ive been asked advice on a course thats starting witchcraft for beginners, and so far the lass running it has taken my suggestions to heart, although that may be just because she hasnt realized my age (it being facebook an all, dont think everyone immediately checks out age and religion excetera when talking to someone) or just my advice was helpful to her. once sunday comes around and i can put forward everything thats been suggested here and how well the admins respond to it, i think will determine my future involvement in the group, even if it means i just step down as admin because i dont want to be involved in these sort of disputes.

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Hi. Just being nosey and wondering how things went on Sunday. Hope that you were able to have a productive discussion and people listened to each other. :)

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If you need to make a point - I can lend you my one of these - 17 inches long...I find it certainly focuses attention :o_youpi:

sh2197.jpg :o_rofl: :o_rofl: :o_rofl: :o_rofl: :o_rofl:

Edited by Wodeborn
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sorry ive not been back on, been busy. not all the admins were there, so it wasnt a quite the productive meeting i had in mind, plus with it being the first day of the shop being open only managed to mention it to a few of them. so new plan of attack, doing it this sunday on our first moot, where hopefully we will be in one room sat down for a large amount of time. and if that doesnt work i may be borrowing some weapons off you chris

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Weapons....oooooooh - like weapons

 

armourysmall_zpsfa981ab4.jpg

 

part of the downstairs armoury...I'd recommend the Scottish Broadsword to the right for the terrorising effect - although the Mortuary sword beneath is probably more useful if you actually wanted to press your arguments :o_rofl: :o_rofl:

Edited by Wodeborn
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