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Moonsmith

Would You Be A Pagan......

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Stonehugger

In common with others who answered already, I don't see myself as countercultural. The only related issue I can think of is that the news media seems to think we're all scary perverts and the entertainment media seem to think we're at Hogwarts. Once people get to know me, and vice versa, my life seems incredibly normal.

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AyeAyeMagpie

I stumbled across a laughably biased old Daily Mail article about paganism  not long ago. I think it was entitled something like, "Harmless Eccentrics or Dangerous Occultists?" It's a prime example of the ridiculous way they use language to manipulate the reader (and reinforce existing prejudices), but when you consider the harm that this kind of message does to discredit paganism in the mainstream, it's pretty frustrating. 

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Ffred_Clegg

I wonder whether, 50 years on, the term "counter culture" has the same resonance that it did back then - many of the old certainties associated with the old Establishment have been exploded and cast away to be replaced with new "certainties" which lead ultimately to the stultification of the human spirit in an even worse way than the old ones did.

If Paganism still forms part of the vision of a better world, then I think it still stands counter to the belief that we are powerless slaves to the market, and still leads us to a path whereby we can create things anew.

C S Lewis (and I can't trace the reference on the spot) said far better than I could what a Pagan Establishment might look like!

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

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DavidMcCann

I don't think I'm counter-cultural, or that my Hellenism is. Now one of my neighbours is an evangelical Christian, perhaps because she's Nigerian. I don't know where she goes to church, for there's nothing like that locally. That's counter-cultural! My other neighbours are more typical of this neck of the woods: Catholic, Anglican, and Buddhist.

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Moonsmith
17 minutes ago, DavidMcCann said:

Now one of my neighbours is an evangelical Christian, perhaps because she's Nigerian. I don't know where she goes to church, for there's nothing like that locally. That's counter-cultural!

Totally agree.

There is a huge difference between a national culture and a national establishment.  Perhaps my OP should have read "counter-establishmentarian as well as countercultural.

I agree with you too Ffred. Back in the 60's living on an old bus and charging three figures for a head massage while rubbing a brass pot  was counter cultural.  I believe that on average British culture is vastly more accepting than it was in the 60's/70's when everyone was rebelling but wasn't sure what about.  Cue Marlon Brando 🙂  Obviously we have people who are frightened of a multicultural Britain and are fighting a reactionary battle.  What a thought for the beginning of the century: reactionary is the new countercultural!!!!!!

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Ellinas

On the other hand, I've spent a substantial part of my adult life surrounded by evangelical fundies, none of whom are Nigerian.  Presumably that does make me counter cultural - unless we then define the fundy culture as counter the secular local culture, in which case, perhaps I'm counter both cultures.

Is "counter cultural" not so subjective as to be practically meaningless?  Every culture likely has some, more or less general, element, that is counter some part of another  culture, probably somewhere in the fairly close neighbourhood.

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Moonsmith
17 hours ago, Ellinas said:

Is "counter cultural" not so subjective as to be practically meaningless?

Of course, unless you choose to see meaning in it.  Conversation isn't possible, debate does not happen unless we are able to see meaning in abstract or subjective concepts.

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Ellinas

It is, however, preferable to be able to identify some coherent core of meaning that stands scrutiny.  Otherwise a concept can have no more meaning than the individual decides to put into it.  Not that I'm overly bothered by such anarchy, but I'm unsure how far a discussion on something so nebulous will take me.

At present, I am coming to the conclusion that the concept of "counter cultural" is somewhat a creature of modern mythology.

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