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Earthdragon

A Question For Pantheists

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Earthdragon

When you first realised that you yourself are part of a divine Universe how did that change your sense of self, if at all?

 

Did the realisation that you are divine change your relationship with yourself?

 

Can you make sense of the idea of "having a relationship with yourself"? If so what is the nature of that relationship and your divinity?

 

ED

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Veggie dancer

 

 

 

Nice questions Earth dragon. :) I will try and answer...

 

"When you first realised that you yourself are part of a divine Universe how did that change your sense of self, if at all? Did the realisation that you are divine change your relationship with yourself?"

I suppose in a way yes. I feel more inclined to trust and respect myself. More involved and included in the world and in whatever the purpose of the universe is.

Thinking you're divine could seem quite arrogant but its not really if you believe everything is divine, you are only a very small part of the universe, and just as insignificant or significant as its many other very small parts.

 

"Can you make sense of the idea of "having a relationship with yourself"? If so what is the nature of that relationship and your divinity?"

 

I think so. To me everything being a part of a divine whole doesn't take away the individual identity of anything. I am just a tiny part of a huge living system AS WELL as being myself the individual. I don't really think the living universe knows me and cares for me personally like an all knowing all seeing benevolent god. And i don't really see it as 'a relationship with myself'. For me the 'relationship' comes from the connection between me and other things in this universe, the connections are what make everything part of one thing, and the relationship is seeking to get to know other beings and seeking to understand more about their significance, purpose and meaning in this universe and also trying to understand the connections between myself and other things, and learning more about my place and purpose as well.

I think we all (humans, animals, plants, trees, rocks, every atom and maybe other non physical beings too) have a purpose as part of the whole system. And that we should respect all things.

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Nomis

1) Apart from being jaw dropping you mean? I don't know if it did. It opened doors to discover myself rather than that one event causing change in itself.

 

2) No. The realisation that i was part of 'the One' was a rediscovery of something that I already knew within myself and made perfect sense.

 

3) Yes I can. I am one of may egos , many personalities or many 'I am-s'. The 'me', at (aka nomis) the the moment , is the dominant personality. It is my turn to be at the top of the pile. Therefore this relationship makes perfect sense as a reincarnationist. Because each 'I am' explores the karma set out before him/her. As part of the 'One' I must experience everything, obviously something not achievable in one life time, before rejoining the 'One'. Is that all clear ?

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Moonsmith

My take on Pantheism is very simple. I do not think of the Universe in numinous terms.

 

For this reason I don't see myself as part of "the One". In the same way, I'm wouldn't use the word "divine" because that would imply a characteristic that is relative to something that isn't divine. The universe just "is", all 1080 atoms of it. Jaw dropping is an excellent term. Contemplation of what it is and the massive intellectual power that is bringing it into focus is for me what worship [the recognition of worth] is all about. Worship without faith, superstition or religion. Oh belief - yes belief, huge lumps of it, particularly the absolute belief that the next mountain in our understanding can be scaled no matter how daunting.

 

For me there wasn't an epiphany, it has all been so very simple and built out of what I learned starting in secondary school and then subsequent learning to this day. I was very lucky to be young at the time Hawking, Gell-Mann and Feldman were at the height of their powers. Further I had a friend, a Manchester research Fellow, who worked at the Daresbury Accelerator at the time attitudes in physics were changing. We were hearing terms like "The Tao of Physics". Hawking wanted to meet God before he died. I started seeing the universe in everything that "my" senses brought "me". If anything consolidated this thinking it was Nigel Calder's TV presentation "The Key to the Universe", a three hour program broadcast in 1978. As it opened Calder stood on a bridge. Above him were illustrations of galaxies [were talking 1970's graphics here] and below him molecules, atoms and quarks. He was showing us where humanity stood within the universe.

 

When I lapsed as a Christian. [No slamming doors, no anger, just a drift away] I started to think. I used a philosophical technique in which tenets are deliberately reversed. There were several significant ones; "I am further from God than any other entity in nature" was one of them. By my former religion this would have been a negative statement so I reversed that to "This is essential". This gave rise to the thought - an awareness that was temporarily isolated from the universe was essential. The thought that the universe is discovering itself through me was very very exciting indeed.

 

Mike once asked me if my Deity was aware. I answered that the universe had just enquired if it was aware and was in the process of formulating thoughts from that enquiry.

 

So why aren't I an Atheist? Firstly because given the accepted definition of Theism I cannot think of anything more appropriate for such a beautiful, ultimately powerful, organised, awe-inspiring, integrated, nurturing, indeed life giving entity.

and

Then I read Max Tegmark's conjecture that Consciousness is a state of matter like "Solid" Liquid" "Gas" "Plasma" etc.etc. [Tegmark 2014] It is only a conjecture and it's complex but - suffice it to say that by applying that conjecture to a system such as the universe, could be to suggest that it is conscious.

 

Jaw Dropping - you said it!

Edited by Moonhunter
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Moonsmith

Bugger bugger bugger! For Feldman [whom I greatly admire] read Feynman [whom I greatly admire for different reasons!]

 

Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooods - please?

Edited by Moonsmith

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Earthdragon

Just to clarify, Moonsmith, you are saying that you are not a Pantheist.

 

ED

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Earthdragon

1) Apart from being jaw dropping you mean? I don't know if it did. It opened doors to discover myself rather than that one event causing change in itself.

 

2) No. The realisation that i was part of 'the One' was a rediscovery of something that I already knew within myself and made perfect sense.

 

3) Yes I can. I am one of may egos , many personalities or many 'I am-s'. The 'me', at (aka nomis) the the moment , is the dominant personality. It is my turn to be at the top of the pile. Therefore this relationship makes perfect sense as a reincarnationist. Because each 'I am' explores the karma set out before him/her. As part of the 'One' I must experience everything, obviously something not achievable in one life time, before rejoining the 'One'. Is that all clear ?

 

Hi Nomis, thanks for your reply. Yes the jaw dropping effect - how if at all has that changed you may I ask? I find it interesting that you see yourself as many egos. When thinking about yourself are you "Nomis looking at Nomis" or do you sense that you are Nomis looking at the accumulation of the many other lives (egos) that you have had?

 

I respect Pantheism enormously and am interested in finding out more about people's personal experience of it.

 

When I looked up the word "divine" my source said "of or like God or a god". Now that doesn't really reflect the feeling that I get from the word. The truly awesome, amazing reality of existence even at the level of the " inanimate" is what comes to mind when I consider it. Then to think of the wonder that comes from contemplating my own existence and that of all other living beings - yes I think it's all Divine. Now the feeling of wonder and awe at existence - I think I've always had feelings like that though didn't rationalise them as a child/young adult and have oinly really confidently been able to express them alot later. But god-like? I certainly see the universe as have qualities that may be multi-dimensional, interconnected and beyond the physical. I see myself in the same way. "God-like" to me implies personality and intention and that's where the idea of "purpose" comes in...

 

The One that you refer to - if you have realised that you are part of it then what does it mean to you to rejoin it? How and when do you see that happening?

 

Hi Veggie Dancer,

 

Thanks for your reply also. When you say that you seek to get to know other beings and seek to understand more about their significance, purpose and meaning in this universe and also try to understand the connections between yourself and other things, and learning more about your place and purpose as well - this really interests me. I suppose our own purpose is whatever we make it but are you saying that whatever purpose we take on for ourselves there is an underlying singular purpose inherent in a divine Universe that we fit into? If so is it a case of attuning ourselves to divine purpose in order to more fully reveal one's divinity?

 

An alternative way to see it, I suppose, would be that there is no underlying purpose but that each individual part of the universe has its own separate divine purpose...and do we fulfill that purpose by simply being who are right now or do we have to change and grow (or prune ourselves!) to achieve this.

 

ED

Edited by Earthdragon
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Xalle

For those of us who aren't pantheists and who are trying to follow and understand, could one of you explain or define what you mean by "divine".

 

It suggests characteristics of some sort and "being a part of it" suggests something "other" it would be good to understand what the other/characteristics are that make it different from just being a part of the universe we currently understand it.

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Moonsmith

Just to clarify, Moonsmith, you are saying that you are not a Pantheist.

 

ED

 

:o_headscratch:

 

Hardly! I've been saying that I am a Pantheist here since I arrived and have even discussed it with you!

 

So why aren't I an Atheist? Firstly because given the accepted definition of Theism I cannot think of anything more appropriate for such a beautiful, ultimately powerful, organised, awe-inspiring, integrated, nurturing, indeed life giving entity.

 

Which bit of this is unclear :o_rofl:

Edited by Moonsmith

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Earthdragon

Hi Moonsmith,

 

I must have slipped past that one! ;)

 

ED

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Moonsmith

No worries ED.

 

The fact I believe that we each live within our own universe could lead to very different views of Pantheism even within the accepted dictionary definition.

 

What is important here, particularly on this forum - the viewing platform for looking over into the Valley - we each speak with sincerity from our own truth.

 

Off topic maybe but I THOROUGHLY recommend the highlighted series for its view of a universe and of some realities.

 

Go well and go happy.

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Nomis

1) Apart from being jaw dropping you mean? I don't know if it did. It opened doors to discover myself rather than that one event causing change in itself.

 

2) No. The realisation that i was part of 'the One' was a rediscovery of something that I already knew within myself and made perfect sense.

 

3) Yes I can. I am one of may egos , many personalities or many 'I am-s'. The 'me', at (aka nomis) the the moment , is the dominant personality. It is my turn to be at the top of the pile. Therefore this relationship makes perfect sense as a reincarnationist. Because each 'I am' explores the karma set out before him/her. As part of the 'One' I must experience everything, obviously something not achievable in one life time, before rejoining the 'One'. Is that all clear ?

 

Hi Nomis, thanks for your reply. Yes the jaw dropping effect - how if at all has that changed you may I ask? I find it interesting that you see yourself as many egos. When thinking about yourself are you "Nomis looking at Nomis" or do you sense that you are Nomis looking at the accumulation of the many other lives (egos) that you have had?

 

I respect Pantheism enormously and am interested in finding out more about people's personal experience of it.

 

When I looked up the word "divine" my source said "of or like God or a god". Now that doesn't really reflect the feeling that I get from the word. The truly awesome, amazing reality of existence even at the level of the " inanimate" is what comes to mind when I consider it. Then to think of the wonder that comes from contemplating my own existence and that of all other living beings - yes I think it's all Divine. Now the feeling of wonder and awe at existence - I think I've always had feelings like that though didn't rationalise them as a child/young adult and have oinly really confidently been able to express them alot later. But god-like? I certainly see the universe as have qualities that may be multi-dimensional, interconnected and beyond the physical. I see myself in the same way. "God-like" to me implies personality and intention and that's where the idea of "purpose" comes in...

 

The One that you refer to - if you have realised that you are part of it then what does it mean to you to rejoin it? How and when do you see that happening?

 

 

 

ED

 

Hi ED, I don't see myself as many egos, per se, but one of many egos. Freud coined the term the 'greater ego' meaning the accumulation of all my former egos of which I am part. If I were to invite, for example, six people from history to dine with me I would invited myself x 6. I can only look at my former egos if I can remember my past, traces of which can effect me still in this life.

 

The'One' to which i refer, simply put, is the combined consciousness of the universes, all its dimensions and everything. When will I rejoin you ask? Good question ask me again when we are both in the spirit world and I may have a better understanding and an answer for you on that one

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Veggie dancer

Hi Veggie Dancer,

Thanks for your reply also. When you say that you seek to get to know other beings and seek to understand more about their significance, purpose and meaning in this universe and also try to understand the connections between yourself and other things, and learning more about your place and purpose as well - this really interests me. I suppose our own purpose is whatever we make it but are you saying that whatever purpose we take on for ourselves there is an underlying singular purpose inherent in a divine Universe that we fit into?

 

Yes I think I am saying that :)

 

i think of it like we are cells in a body. Like a whiteblood cell's purpose is to deal with infections but its greater purpose is to keep you alive so you can continue to function in the world. The white blood cells' world is within the body and it has a certain amount if awareness identifying bacteria and viruses and responding to them but it isnt aware of what the purpose of the body is. And individually a white blood cell's purpose is only really valuable as part of a group of white blood cells and part of the whole system.

 

You asked ...is it a case of attuning ourselves to divine purpose in order to more fully reveal one's divinity? ...

 

Yes. :) and I think attuning is a great way of putting it. We cant completely understand the purpose of existence but i think we can attune to it and then we 'work' well.

 

An alternative way to see it, I suppose, would be that there is no underlying purpose but that each individual part of the universe has its own separate divine purpose...and do we fulfill that purpose by simply being who are right now or do we have to change and grow (or prune ourselves!) to achieve this.

 

Maybe, i'm really not sure about the idea of the simply being who we are versus Change/grow/prune ourselves. I think there is a point in striving for something.

 

I do think we have the capacity to be both useful and not very useful, if we live and die without being useful, what we are made of will become something new anyway and continue to serve purpose in whatever new forms that takes so its not like one person screwing up or not doing anything is likely to really 'matter'. But i prefer to aim to be useful.. Not trying to become something different but to get a sense of what I am and everything else is, be myself to my full potential.. I suspect that involves changing and growing naturally.

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Moonhunter

Freud coined the term the 'greater ego'

 

Do you know where, hun? I can't recall it in the (very few) of his writings that I have read, and I'm struggling to fit it into his ideas. When i google "greater ego" I don't pull up anything related to Freud, that I can see. :(

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Moonhunter

Can I go back to the original questions? I'm asking because i confess that I thought I understood those, but I am not really understanding the answers given, and I'd really appreciate some help here, as I'd like to understand. :)

 

When you first realised that you yourself are part of a divine Universe how did that change your sense of self, if at all?

 

Did the realisation that you are divine change your relationship with yourself?

 

Can you make sense of the idea of "having a relationship with yourself"? If so what is the nature of that relationship and your divinity?

 

ED

 

To me, the questions sum up what was my (agreed, primitive) understanding of "pantheism". To use the wiki definition (because it's easy! :P):

 

Pantheism is the belief that the Universe (or nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity, or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god. Pantheists thus do not believe in a distinct personal or anthropomorphic god.

 

 

If any of you identify with that - then what is "divinity"? what makes everything "divine"? What is "divine", in this context? Is the "divine" in all the component parts of the universe, or is it only in the combination? How does it manifest itself - how is it different from non-"divine"?

 

If you identify as pantheist but not with the Wiki definition, what is your definition of pantheism?

 

Also - for any of you - how does your pantheism differ from panenthism, defined (again, using wiki) as:

Panentheism (meaning "all-in-God", from the Ancient Greek πᾶν pân, "all", ἐν en, "in" and Θεός Theós, "God"), also known as Monistic Monotheism,is a belief system which posits that the divine – whether as a single God, number of gods, or other form of "cosmic animating force"– interpenetrates every part of the universe and extends, timelessly (and, presumably, spacelessly) beyond it. Unlike pantheism, which holds that the divine and the universe are identical, panentheism maintains a distinction between the divine and non-divine and the significance of both.

 

Added - I've just found this:

Basically:

Pantheists view God as identical to the Universe. The Universe is God.

Panentheists view God as greater than the Universe. The Universe is part of God.

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Nomis

Freud coined the term the 'greater ego'

 

Do you know where, hun? I can't recall it in the (very few) of his writings that I have read, and I'm struggling to fit it into his ideas. When i google "greater ego" I don't pull up anything related to Freud, that I can see. :(

 

Ooops! Should have read "greater self"

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Moonsmith

Freud coined the term the 'greater ego'

 

Do you know where, hun? I can't recall it in the (very few) of his writings that I have read, and I'm struggling to fit it into his ideas. When i google "greater ego" I don't pull up anything related to Freud, that I can see. :(

 

Superego?

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Moonhunter

Ooops! Should have read "greater self"

 

No, it doesn't really fit with the superego. I always thought of that as my Gran leaning over my shoulder and muttering disparagingly. ;) It's basically internalised social norms. I suppose you could call it a greater self, but it's very limited - to one's upbringing and social circle.

 

And there's no psychanalytic term "greater self" used by Freud. However, there are any number of references to the term by Buddhists, and it appears to be a Buddhist concept. so perhaps that's what you were thinking of, Nomis?

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Moonsmith

Basically:

Pantheists view God as identical to the Universe. The Universe is God.

 

Not this - Panentheists view God as greater than the Universe. The Universe is part of God. [sorry - I can't find the strikethrough.]

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Einstein was a Pantheist and was talking from that viewpoint when he said "God doesn't play dice."

 

Once you start talking about the universe there ISN'T anything else. There isn't a "part" and nothing is either divine or not divine. The universe is just what is. I am the universe observing itself and as such, because I am equipped with an intellect want to explain those observations. A logical tool called "Science" and "The scientific method" are thus far achieving this. The descriptive term "God" is highly appropriate given the way that term is used generally. See my first response.

 

Aside - In my view the term "Multiverse is" tortological. If more than one "Universe" exists then we must find a new word for the current universe [Fragmoverse?]and reserve the word "Universe" for that which encompasses the whole. The borders of Pantheism simply move outwards.

Edited by Moonsmith
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Nomis

Moonhunter, you're probably right. Anyways I came across the phrase :o_headscratch:

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Moonhunter

Aside - In my view the term "Multiverse is" tortological. If more than one "Universe" exists then we must find a new word for the current universe [Fragmoverse?]and reserve the word "Universe" for that which encompasses the whole. The borders of Pantheism simply move outwards.

 

But is viewing the universe as everything Pantheism. Do you view everything as divine? If so, what does "divine" mean in this context? Is it nothing more than a synonym for admiration, or wonder, or feeling integrated?

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Moonsmith

But is viewing the universe as everything Pantheism. Do you view everything as divine? If so, what does "divine" mean in this context? Is it nothing more than a synonym for admiration, or wonder, or feeling integrated?

 

To repeat #19:

Once you start talking about the universe there ISN'T anything else. There isn't a "part" and nothing is either divine or not divine. The universe is just what is.

As #19

 

Does that help? I'm not shouting - just emphasising whatg you seem to have missed.

 

and................

 

But is viewing the universe as everything Pantheism.

 

No, viewing the universe as God is Pantheism as per your quotation @ #15

Edited by Moonsmith

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Ellinas

Just coming into this so I'll go back to the original questions (and making no admission as to whether I qualify as a pantheist - probably not in reality).

 

 

When you first realised that you yourself are part of a divine Universe how did that change your sense of self, if at all?

 

I'm not sure that it did. To me, the "divine Universe" is tied up with the idea that "all is consciousness". I would say that consciousness precedes physical "being". It is both transcendent and immanent - an ultimate reality within which the universe exists and, at the same time, lends consciousness to all within that universe. I'm not sure how else to explain it.

 

 

Did the realisation that you are divine change your relationship with yourself?

 

No. I still have to spend most of my time living and putting up with me. Seriously, I cannot have a relationship with me without being separate from myself. I may decide that I like or do not like aspects of myself, but that's not quite the same as a "relationship". If there is no "relationship", it cannot change.

 

 

Can you make sense of the idea of "having a relationship with yourself"? If so what is the nature of that relationship and your divinity?

 

Not really. I relate to other discrete elements of consciousness, all of which are within and ultimately the same as the ultimate consciousness, but which still perceive and are perceived as discrete. I accept that without understanding it. I also distinguish "the Gods" or "deities" (discrete conscious personalities more advanced than I am) from "God" or "the Divine" (ultimate consciousness). Also see answer above.

Edited by Ellinas

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Veggie dancer

 

But is viewing the universe as everything Pantheism. Do you view everything as divine? If so, what does "divine" mean in this context? Is it nothing more than a synonym for admiration, or wonder, or feeling integrated?

 

Yep I think I do basically view everything as divine. To me 'divine' does express admiration, wonder and feeling integrated. But i think there is something more to it too, its hard to put my finger on what exactly, maybe part of it is just the level of wonder and admiration. The universe being more than just the sum of its parts seems significant too. its also to do with things not being a wonderful accident but that there is a driving will or life force within things to exist, to create, to live (at least thats my view on what makes everything divine anyway)

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Moonhunter

But is viewing the universe as everything Pantheism. Do you view everything as divine? If so, what does "divine" mean in this context? Is it nothing more than a synonym for admiration, or wonder, or feeling integrated?

 

To repeat #19:

Once you start talking about the universe there ISN'T anything else. There isn't a "part" and nothing is either divine or not divine. The universe is just what is.

As #19

 

Does that help? I'm not shouting - just emphasising whatg you seem to have missed.

 

what does "divine" mean in this context? Is it nothing more than a synonym for admiration, or wonder, or feeling integrated?

 

Does that help? I'm not shouting - just emphasising whatg you seem to have missed. :P

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Moonsmith

OK Moonhunter,

 

One last shot at this.

I think everyone is bored and certainly ED, who posed the OP is far more interested in replies that look Panentheistic or Humanist to me. I'll make a second post to comment on that.

 

So, to semantics:

 

Discussing the universe has its own issues in that any relative term becomes meaningless. Is the universe "big" or is it "incredibly small"? We are without a gauge.

 

So here goes - Sorry for using Wikipedia but it's quick and I'm bored too.

 

Terms:

Universe: Everything. Nothing else exists by presence, absence, thought or spirit.

Pantheist: One who views the Universe as God

God: Divinity

Divine: God like.

 

Were I to apply the comparative adjective "Divine" to "the Universe" my expression becomes circular. I would be saying that "the Universe is God like" where no comparator exists. I'd also be saying "God is Divine", God is God or probably the most appropriate, "The Universe is the Universe".

 

Were there, paradoxically, to be more than one universe and were they each able to observe the others it may be that a Divine universe could exist but then we wouldn't be discussing universes. There is only one of those, the term Multiverse [Multiple Universes] being tautological.

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Moonsmith

Hi everyone on this thread.

 

Those of you who are Pantheists are clearly discussing your theism differently than am I regarding my Pantheism. I think you are providing the more acceptable answers to ED's questions.

 

As this is a Starter's Orders thread and so will become a reference for future enquirers I wondered where you discovered your definitions, thoughts and impressions of Pantheism?

 

The book that I'd most like to recommend is problematic for me only in that the writer is Atheist! This is not unusual. I have written to him to ask how the terms Atheist Pantheist fit together but have thus far not received a reply. The book is short, very readable and I'd agree with much of what it describes. Elements of Pantheism [Harrison]

 

Other Pantheists writers that I've enjoyed are:

Lao Tzu - Tao-te-Ching. I find my Pantheism in his Tao.

Lazlo

Goethe

To see Pantheism working as a philosophy within Science you couldn't do better than to read the life of Einstein.

Hawking was considered a Pantheist but a few years ago declared himself to have lost his belief in God.

 

I can't find anything more modern and readable that hasn't been written by a Naturalistic Pantheists - they are Atheist and there is arising a general view that to be a Pantheist is to be Atheist which of course doesn't make sense.

 

If you are prepared to get stuck into Hegel good luck. You will certainly know a lot more than I do by the end of it!

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Elowen

This is the way I see it, in my simple, happy little world ...

 

God is seen by most religions as the authour of all existence.

I believe our universe is the authour of all of our existence.

It had/has the power to create and then sustain everything upon our little planet, therefore our universe is 'like a god' ie divine.

 

I would say that divine is more than just a synonym for admiration, wonder or feeling integrated. Yes,I feel all those things when contemplating my existence, but at the same time divine to me means it's something more. I can feel admiration for other people, or look in wonder at pieces of art. I feel integrated as part of all life, but not in the same profound way as I look at the universe and all it encompasses.

 

Moonsmith summed it up for me with this ...

 

So why aren't I an Atheist? Firstly because given the accepted definition of Theism I cannot think of anything more appropriate for such a beautiful, ultimately powerful, organised, awe-inspiring, integrated, nurturing, indeed life giving entity.

 

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Earthdragon

 

But is viewing the universe as everything Pantheism. Do you view everything as divine? If so, what does "divine" mean in this context? Is it nothing more than a synonym for admiration, or wonder, or feeling integrated?

 

Yep I think I do basically view everything as divine. To me 'divine' does express admiration, wonder and feeling integrated. But i think there is something more to it too, its hard to put my finger on what exactly, maybe part of it is just the level of wonder and admiration. The universe being more than just the sum of its parts seems significant too. its also to do with things not being a wonderful accident but that there is a driving will or life force within things to exist, to create, to live (at least thats my view on what makes everything divine anyway)

 

Here is one of the drivers for my questions in the OP. I see the level of awe and wonder that accompanies the sense of divinity in the Universe to be an essential part of "getting it". So in the absence of divinity there would be no true awe and without the awe one would be missing the divinity. The sense that there is a purpose that is inherent in the world is more tricky. I have to start with my own self because I am most intimate to me. What is my purpose and how do I see my sense of that reflected in the world around me? And then the flip side - walking the Druid path for me entails trying to see Nature's logic (not man's logic) and seeing where I fit in with that. I myself feel the urge to grow. To develop. To share. To celebrate. Above all to value things for what they are not and what we project onto them.

 

For me this last one - valuing things - links back to my own self. In many ways the purpose of the whole universe seems too big to comprehend. But truly valuing things and the sense of that value being in-keeping with the huge sense of awe we are talking about, well that changes my feeling about myself. To deeply care about my own existence - just existence without yet coming to the purpose part of it...that's what it involves. Existence is normally seen as baseline and banal. People say "To merely exist" - when in fact existence itself , even of inanimate things is jaw droppingly amazing and dwelling on that or having an epiphany moment leads us to begin to care deeply about existence.

 

Extending thinking to my own purpose just gives a huge sense of responsibility to further and deepen my involvement in those things that help me to feel that I'm growing.

 

Origins of things are important and that feeling of awe that we are talking about - its just that, a feeling. It doesn't come from the rational mind. We don't work it out and calculate it into being. It's raw emotion and is a reaction.

 

The realisation of this whole thing makes me want to laugh and celebrate. It's very very uplifting :)

Edited by Earthdragon
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Earthdragon

Meant "to value things for what they are and not to project onto them" !!

 

ED

Edited by Earthdragon

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