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VibrantCrystalMagic

Crystals / Amulets

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Phoenix

I think u hit the nail on the head there.. it is a matter of opinion and belief. And I know what I feel and how certain crystals can change my mood or mind set. And yea some of them r pretty. I do prefer the bigger rough one however a lump the size of a small football aint ideal tocarry round with..

 

Here a question to those that dont believe in them.. do u believe anything u can carry with u has the ability to keep you in a good mood or to block negativity? Any jewellery or anything like that??

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Moonhunter

I think u hit the nail on the head there.. it is a matter of opinion and belief. And I know what I feel and how certain crystals can change my mood or mind set. And yea some of them r pretty. I do prefer the bigger rough one however a lump the size of a small football aint ideal tocarry round with..

 

Phoenix hun - would you mind if I asked you to write full English? Like many Valley residents, I find textese difficult and have to read a sentence a couple of times to figure it out. It would be really helpful if you could write as everyone else does, here. Thanks :)

 

Here a question to those that dont believe in them.. do u believe anything u can carry with u has the ability to keep you in a good mood or to block negativity? Any jewellery or anything like that??

 

I've not thought about this before. I guess the answer is a qualified no. I could make something to protect me, if I wanted to. I could work magic to do that, if I wanted to. But I don't carry such things with me all the time. I've mainly used psychological tricks to control any mood swings. I don't think I'd feel comfortable thinking my moods were controlled by something outside of me.

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Ellinas

Vibrant Crystal Magic - I think you'll find that none of us are denying that crystals can prove beneficial to some. The only issue is whether there is some objectively verifiable basis for that or whether it's an issue of what is in the mind of the user/believer. I'm very much in the latter camp, and consider that crystals are in the placebo category. But then, I tend to be in that camp on many issues, even to the point that I sometimes find myself doubting whether much exists in the way of an objective reality.

 

Phoenix - I suspect my answer is actually much the same as MH's but with a different emphasis. Theoretically, yes. To modify the words of your question: "Anything... can carry with... [me] has the ability to keep... [me] in a good mood or to block negativity". The emphasis is on "anything". It depends on what I choose and the qualities I decide to ascribe to it.

 

But that approach has a corollary. As "anything" can do this, so can nothing. Why does my mind need some sort of fetish or amulet type item when the effects are entirely from my mind in any event? Therefore, because "anything" can be such an item, nothing needs so to be.

Edited by Ellinas
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Freydis

Here a question to those that dont believe in them.. do u believe anything u can carry with u has the ability to keep you in a good mood or to block negativity? Any jewellery or anything like that??

 

I suppose not really. I don't have any jewellery or object that I carry with to keep me in a good mood or block negativity. However, there are some clothes that I like and I know suit me that I'll wear in particular situations because it gives me confidence to know that I look good and I'm not sure that's all that different.

 

I guess I fall in the placebo camp. I certainly don't believe that it's possible to prove objectively that crystals have a positive impact. But there's nothing wrong with placebos. Placebos can have a very helpful impact so if it's what works for you I'd say fine, go for it. Why not?

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Fortuna

I think u hit the nail on the head there.. it is a matter of opinion and belief. And I know what I feel and how certain crystals can change my mood or mind set. And yea some of them r pretty. I do prefer the bigger rough one however a lump the size of a small football aint ideal tocarry round with..

 

Here a question to those that dont believe in them.. do u believe anything u can carry with u has the ability to keep you in a good mood or to block negativity? Any jewellery or anything like that??

 

Not everything is a matter of opinion or belief. If crystals have energies then we should be able to measure this energy and explain how they are beneficial. Believing something doesn't make it valid and not all beliefs have to be respected. If I were to say the Moon is made of cheese I would not expect people to respect that belief because the onus would be on me to demonstrate why my views are valid. Why is it any different when it comes to crystals?

 

And no. There is no trinket that I have convinced myself can keep negativity away from me. The only thing that can do that is my brain and attitude. If an object helps me to do that, then fine, but it is not the object which is key, but my own reaction to it.

 

And most of the crystals we know of and have access to were unknown to us until recent times. Where has this body of lore come from? I'm guessing from the New Age, crystal industry. I guess the fact that no-one has attempted to answer any of the questions I have posed is an indication that Crystals is one of those "no go areas" in Paganism.

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Moonhunter

Where has this body of lore come from? I'm guessing from the New Age, crystal industry. .

 

As far as I can trace it (yes, this thread triggered me to go into at least partial 'research' mode! :lol:) it was the 1980s, if this is believable.

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Phoenix

hey Moonhunter. sorry about the short text its a habit i am trying to get out of. i will do my best to keep it full English. if it slips back please feel free to point it out to me as i do it without thinking most of the time.

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Isrith

Where has this body of lore come from? I'm guessing from the New Age, crystal industry.

 

Well. . . The healing properties of crystal along with many other stones - such as agate, diamond, carbuncle, chrysoprase, amethyst, topaz, onxy and so on - were written about in the 12th century by the German abbess, Hildegard von Bingen (1098 - 1179). She was a polymath, visionary, writer, composer, philosopher and mystic.

 

In Physica, one of her two major medical works, she first explains how crystal comes into being and then goes on to tell of its many healing properites. In the vast majority of cases the crystal is heated by the sun before use on the body. Some of the remedies involve pouring liquid (water or wine) over the warm crystal and then the liquid is used for the healing. Some remedies advise leaving the crystal in water and then drinking the water frequently.

Edited by Isrith
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Earthdragon

I agree, Freydis, regarding placebos. Indeed I think the what, why and how of placebos is a major area of potential study in science. It broaches on the area of how mind affects body ( materialists can read "how brain affects body" though I hypothesise that the two are not synonymous) .

 

The way that our relationship to object can enhance the placebo effect is also pertinent. A pill given by medical practitioners is associated with a set of assumptions and beliefs. Ones relationship with a crystal may have different beliefs attached - ones which could even relate to the person holistically and effect a greater change than a dummy pill. Or an active medication, even.

 

Apparently there were large scale studies which were not made public which showed that fluoxetine is in fact no more effective than placebo ( in this case a dummy pill).

 

I particularly like Libyan tektite which was used on the death breast plate of Tutankhamen.

 

ED

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Maeve

Yes - but did those remedies work? If thy did, were they only effective because of the aforementioned placebo effect?

 

Many things were used as medicinal products and procedures which have been found subsequently to have no effect whatsoever...bleeding by leeches ... homeopathy ... arnica for bruises ... various plant remedies such as evening primrose, red clover, black cohosh, Echinacea ... and those are just few with which I have had personal experience!

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Earthdragon

Yes - but did those remedies work? If thy did, were they only effective because of the aforementioned placebo effect?

 

Many things were used as medicinal products and procedures which have been found subsequently to have no effect whatsoever...bleeding by leeches ... homeopathy ... arnica for bruises ... various plant remedies such as evening primrose, red clover, black cohosh, Echinacea ... and those are just few with which I have had personal experience!

I think that I prefer to view the will of the individual to become healthy, the placebo effect, the beliefs within the relationship that the person has with the placebo medium, as well as the intrinsic qualities of the medium of the placebo (eg. A big red pill or an innocuous small grey pill...or a fine shiny colourful crystal as opposed to a dull "lifeless" one) as all being connected.

 

I have friends who are professional herbalists and they say that the intention of the practitioner as well as the intention of the patient to heal comprise about 60% of the "momentum for the person to heal".

 

I'm not equating the use of crystals with the placebo effect but it seems like placebo as a concept is the closest that science comes to acknowledging a mind/ body interplay which is powerful and positive in terms of healing.

 

If one extracts the materialistic, physical properties out from the healing equation one may well find that the medium being used - crystal , echinacea etc. has no measurable effect using current methods.

 

And comparing to modern mass produced pharmaceuticals we indeed find the similar result at times -like I pointed out above Prozac is not effective above the level of placebo....

 

ED

Edited by Earthdragon
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Fortuna

Hi Earthdragon. Yes I'm familiar with Hildegarde Von Bingen (especially like her music). Perhaps you could summarise her views on how a crystal grows and we could use that as the basis for how much store we should set by her views on healing properties. A 12thC mystic writing about crystals does not constitute a body of Lore. Unless you can demonstrate that her views grew in popularity, were tested, were added to by others, then I don't think we can say she represents a body of lore.

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Earthdragon

Hi Mike,

 

Think you have mistaken Isrith's post with mine here.

 

For what it's worth my perspective is that as we are all individuals our interactions on an energetic level are personal to us and are relational by nature. So although there are discernable common experiences that people may have with a particular crystal there are no real rules as such and everyone's experience is equally valid.

 

What we seek in the Druidic system that I practise is a balance within are own individual framework of experience so that the different aspects of life and our own sense of self are accounted for in a healthy or growing way (preferably both!)

 

Hence a body of lore that is empirically testable isn't exactly high on the agenda. It's a malleable, coherant, balanced framework which sits well with ones sense of proportion of the different aspects of one's being and life interactions that I am interested in.

 

Eg. Choosing crystals for the way that their energy (- what I feel from the stone ) relates to being grounded, centred, communicative, open to renewal, having strength of purpose etc etc .

.

Best

ED

 

 

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Fortuna

Apologies Earthdragon...... of course I meant Isrith!

 

If as you say it's all experiential and down to the individual's perspective, why use scientific terminology? If I experience a strong sense of forboding whenever I see a lettuce and say it is because of the negative energy it is giving off I guarantee most people here would consider me bonkers. What is the difference? The only difference is that there isn't a huge, multi-million pound industry based on convincing people that salad crops have mysterious powers. The crystal industry has done a good job, not only of conning people into believing that crystal have wonderful healing powers, but actually making people believe so strongly in this that it is almost offensive to them to have their belief challenged.

 

There are so many people in the pagan world who deal in smoke, mirrors and snake oil and who are willing to make a buck in an unscrupulous way...... we need to question everything.

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Isrith
Hi Earthdragon. Yes I'm familiar with Hildegarde Von Bingen (especially like her music). Perhaps you could summarise her views on how a crystal grows and we could use that as the basis for how much store we should set by her views on healing properties. A 12thC mystic writing about crystals does not constitute a body of Lore. Unless you can demonstrate that her views grew in popularity, were tested, were added to by others, then I don't think we can say she represents a body of lore.

 

Actually, no. I don't have to demonstrate any of those things for you, Mike.

 

I can't recall saying, or even intimating, that Hildegard's writings represent the entire body of lore. I gave a documentable 12th century example in the use of crystals for healing. However, information on the properties of stones - for both healing and magic - can be found throughout history, some of it way before Hildegard's time.

 

Perhaps another interested party might be willing to spend copious amounts of their own time and energy pulling down books in order to compile information for your review? This girl's not about to.

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Earthdragon

Hi Mike,

 

Well the approach that I outlined is methodical, experiential, coherant, adaptable, expandable (it would have to be wouldn't it?) and is quite developed in its psychological premises. It isn't how science is practised in the mainstream but that doesn't mean that it isn't without merit. The use of common terminology is understandable given the above factors above and reflects how language is used and spreads. I agree that clarity is important when using terms like "energy". I wouldn't be averse to using unique terminology for the experience of energies in this context.

 

Your use of the lettuce example is very apt. Yes lettuces give off energy. Just as trees have their distinct energies. We use the Ogham Trees as a set of plants to work with in the same way as crystals - Ogham is the fundamental set of energies that we use in Druidism. Their characteristics are used in many ways. I have uncovered an aspect of Holly energy relates to a difficult issue from my past, when I raised Holly energy in a group setting, others at the time felt , each in their own way, an unusual awkwardness to the energy. For me it also felt strained and forced. This was a symptom of the issue from the past which entered into the energy work through my subconscious. Noticing this enabled me to work on this issue through the Holly energy by separating out the influence from the energy when I raised it.

 

What I am getting round to is that being judgemental from the outside in thinking someone who is saying lettuce energy creates a problem for them discounts that person having an insight about why that might be the case and using the information positively. It also may well discount the possibility of relating positively to such a person if they are unaware that this is possibility at all.

 

ED

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Earthdragon

That last line of mine was rushed and not well written. What I mean to say was

 

"It also may well discount the possibility of relating positively to such a person if they are unaware that it is possible to have an insight about why they experience what they have experienced and be able to use that information positively."

 

I think we constantly pick up in the energy of things all the time and subconsciously are influenced by the resonances between these energies and our past experiences. It's a bit like imprinting. You know, the way that a particular smell might link to a circumstances when something happened and we reacted to that in a particular way...

 

ED

 

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Fortuna

Okay Isrith. I was not demanding that you personally present me with a dossier on Hildegarde's thoughts on crystals and I'm pretty sure you knew that. If it helps read my post again and substitute the word "you" with the word "one".

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Fortuna

Right Earthdragon..... you seem to be saying that the key thing is a person's experiential and emotional response to a thing, because that is something I get. At various times I have used runes for divination. It is my belief that my runes are just bits of wood and it is not so much the runes as my reactions to them that matter. Am I getting there?

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Earthdragon

Hi Mike,

 

Yes I think we are seeing things from a more similar vantage point now :)

 

ED

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Veggie dancer

I believe there is something to the idea of certain crystals having special properties, some sort of energy or vibration for want of better words that we can react with. But I don't think the crystal bible has it all right and there is a stone for every particular ailment.

In personal experience there are certain stones that if I wear I feel make me lathergic and kind of spaced out and a bit uncomfortable. I didn't expect them to make me feel like that, I expected either a positive reaction or no reaction but the fact that I felt bad actually does convince me there is something in the theories.

Some stone jewellery I feel comfortable to wear and perhaps a small positive influence from but I find some wooden jewellery I have has far stronger positive comforting feel to it.

I don't know how much comes from the inate properties of the materials or from a positive influence from the crafts person who made them, perhaps a combination of the 2.

 

As to the ethics of it, that's a different issue. I don't think mining a stone and polishing a stone it would necessarily effect any inate properties the material has if it does have any. But perhaps negative emotions and experiences of people involved in making something can leave a negative feel with something. I guess this is the thing that could be 'cleansed' from the object. But then is it ethical to just cleanse away the negative feeling left by suffering and still support the unethical practice by buying into it? That would nag at me and make me feel more negatively towards something anyway even if I had cleansed it.

Edited by Veggie dancer
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Veggie dancer

In response to your original question. I would cleanse something I was getting out to use for ritual after years of it lying in a cupboard by washing it in really cold salt water and dry it giving it a good rub with a cloth. I live near the sea so I might wash it in the sea actually.

 

Or if it was wooden I would probably dust it off and smudge it with whitesage an possibly rub a bit of walnut oil into it.

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Phoenix

i agree i don't think that we know everything about the crystals.

 

which ones made you feel uncomfortable and lethargic if u dont mind me asking? it would be good to see if they react differently with other people or if it is common affect of the crystal itself?

Edited by Phoenix
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Ellinas

OK, let us talk of lettuce...

 

Pardon the pun.

 

Actually I know people who regard lettuce as a very negative thing. Largely because they hate salad.

 

Love salad, personally. Does that mean I'm more open to the "energy" of a lettuce than I am of a piece of carnelian?

 

The problem I have in interpreting a fair few of the above posts is the continued talk of "energy". What energy does a lettuce give off? It's not even got that many calories.

 

Or are we heading toward saying that the "energy" of a lettuce (or anything else) is simply an interpretation of the reaction of the individual consciousness to that item?

 

In which case, perhaps I begin to comprehend the attraction of salad.

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Veggie dancer

i agree i don't think that we know everything about the crystals.

 

which ones made you feel uncomfortable and lethargic if u dont mind me asking? it would be good to see if they react differently with other people or if it is common affect of the crystal itself?

 

Yes it would be interesting... Malacite I think I found one of the worst. And Another blue green mottled stone, so pretty! but I found that even worse! I've tried looking up what that was called but I can't find it, it might have been a combination of malachite with something else. Hemetite I remember was not good either.

Amber I find nice, I've got a marble necklace I also like and some garnet earings that are fine and I like to wear (but actually the stone doesn't touch the skin so maybe that reduces any effect?

 

I wondered if any stones really do have properties, the same thing might help or make you feel wrong depending on the person and circumstances... like if you take a dose of the wrong medicine .

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geoffp
The problem I have in interpreting a fair few of the above posts is the continued talk of "energy". What energy does a lettuce give off?

 

The stone that hit me on the bonce in Brixton in 1985 had lots of energy........enough to make me see stars :o_wink2:

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Moonhunter

OK, let us talk of lettuce...

 

Love salad, personally. Does that mean I'm more open to the "energy" of a lettuce than I am of a piece of carnelian?

 

 

The ancient Egyptians regarded lettuce as an aphrodisiac. Hence it being the favourite food of sex-mad Set and featuring as one of the weapons in his explictly sexual war with his nephew. Personally, I'd hazard a guess that, for a Kemetic, lettuce came above carnelians but below lapis. :P

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Isrith

 

The stone that hit me on the bonce in Brixton in 1985 had lots of energy........enough to make me see stars :o_wink2:

 

Lol, perfect! Now that I can relate to :)

 

To add to the conversation: I can honestly say that I don't feel "energy" coming off the cut and polished stones that are available on the market. The stones I feel a connection to, and so end up coming home with me, are the ones that I come across on land or water while walking/hiking.

 

Holed stones have been a favourite of mine since childhood. Latest acquisitions include two small pieces of jasper and a large piece of holed crystal, all found a month or so ago on a beach in north Cornwall. Couldn't believe my luck!

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Earthdragon

Not to mention the use of wild lettuce as a sedative and possible psychotropic.

Lactuca virosa is effective - I can vouch for that.

 

How we perceive the "energy" of a plant /crystal is undoubtedly altered by our experiences with it/them and put knowledge of its properties which can be scintific, cultural, folklore related etc...

 

ED

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Fortuna

Okay.... you're all strange. Hilarious, but strange!

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